Maddison

[Ric Flair]

17 minutes ago, Cecchini1976 said:

Maybe we over performed at the start of the season and the final position over 38 games was the right position

 

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Exactly. That's why we have a league table after all. Season is played over 38 games not 15 or 20.

If you do something for the majority of time then you could argue that's not over performance but what you are capable of and show it more often than not. Both seasons it came down to the final 3rd of the season or less.

 

Now there were mitigating circumstances potentially and you could argue we were more consistent in 2020/21 than the year before where actually it seemed we showed Champions elect form for the 1st half of the season and then relegation fodder for the rest. 2020/21 in many ways was harder to stomach as it felt more like we deserved to go the course as a top 4 team and yet still left no stone unturned in our self sabotage to ensure we finished 5th.

[Fox92]

21 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

 

If you do something for the majority of time then you could argue that's not over performance but what you are capable of and show it more often than not. Both seasons it came down to the final 3rd of the season or less.

 

Now there were mitigating circumstances potentially and you could argue we were more consistent in 2020/21 than the year before where actually it seemed we showed Champions elect form for the 1st half of the season and then relegation fodder for the rest. 2020/21 in many ways was harder to stomach as it felt more like we deserved to go the course as a top 4 team and yet still left no stone unturned in our self sabotage to ensure we finished 5th.

I wouldn't say it's for the majority of time though. 19/20 we just performed for half a season. Two defeats, and our run of wins were incredible... all the way up to mid December. We then looked awful against Norwich and obviously Man City and Liverpool. After that we never seemed to recover. Although we did just beat Villa 4-0 then had to break for Covid and that didn't help. It's gonna be the same this season, the World Cup break, is gonna kill some teams and help others.

 

20/21 I'd argue we were better for a longer period, seems weird to say, but again there is no hiding from the fact the last couple of results were shocking and prevented us from finishing top 4. The Newcastle result mainly at the end of 20/21.

[SafewayFox]

6 hours ago, st albans fox said:

you think that we haven’t been trying to get both players to sign new deals (for the past couple seasons in tielemans case and throughout last season on madders ) ???
 

players now are seeing out contracts, especially when they aren’t in the 175/250k areas 

 

the security offered by signing 100k deal compared to the riches of a s/o fee on a free doesn’t stack up 

It’s why I like the Faes signing so much…..24, surely on less of a weekly wedge than Jannik which means if we ever were to sell him on, that’s after we offer him a new deal on longer terms.

 

As someone else mentioned, hopefully the Glover appointment sees more focus on youth on a modest wage but more interested in minutes on the pitch.

 

Livramento is injured but think he will be a quality player for Southampton as an example.

[volpeazzurro]

4 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Rodgers, he's never finished outside the top 10 with us, one poor finish is being "found out".

 

Newcastle looking attractive to who? They've had a good start, they'll probably won't finish top 6 over the course of a season and have still won fvck all in 50 years.

I think it's the current overall package that would appeal to overseas agents and players. A decent manager,  seemingly a  team on the up due to owners that will invest and pay big wages.

[The_Rorab]

5 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Rodgers, he's never finished outside the top 10 with us, one poor finish is being "found out".

 

Newcastle looking attractive to who? They've had a good start, they'll probably won't finish top 6 over the course of a season and have still won fvck all in 50 years.

I'm pretty sure very similar things were aimed at Man City when they were newly taken over and aiming to splash the cash - and look where they are now.

 

It doesn't matter that right now they're not an elite team - they're gonna be aiming to emulate Man City's rise to prominence and have the money to back it up. If they offer Maddison a big wage rise, making him a key part of a team with a very likely upwards trajectory given said amount of money, which could push him into England contention too I have no doubt he'd be willing to go there. 

[Big_Nige]

I think after watching us drop the ball over Youri and Soyuncu, not maximising our potential profit, and now seemingly excepting they are seeing out their contacts, I’m more accepting of reluctantly letting Madders go this coming summer. 
 

As a club we can’t afford to let our star players walk away for nothing if we want to stay competitive. But equally as important we need to start identifying the correct profile of player again, and flipping them within 2-3 seasons. With our training facilities I really thought we’d be making ourself one of the most attractive clubs for players in the 20-24 age bracket before moving on to the “elite” but last last 24 months has been an unmitigated disaster. The signing of Faes gives me a little bit of hope that the club still has an eye for this sort of player and hopefully now Glover is in place we’ll have a clear identity again. 
 

We’re clearly going through a transitional phase, the squad massively needs a refresh, and we’ll need funds to be able to do that. Maddison is rightly the jewel in our rather rusty crown right now, he’s in the form of his life. But the mistakes we’ve made on and off the pitch in the last two years means we have no real bargaining power this summer and undoubtedly he’ll be hugely in demand. 
 

For reasons I hope he doesn’t go Newcastle, but that’s exactly the kind of place I can see him ending up. 

[ARM1968]

10 hours ago, StanSP said:

Generally just harsh to call a 5th placed finish for a club of out stature an 'underperformance'. 

 

In the context of that season, perhaps. It's still fantastic considering who and what we're competing against. 

 

In the context of us as a club, as a whole, its incredible. 

But that’s the thing. Things are always viewed in context, or should be. In the context of where we had been all season, it was an underperformance.  Most of us were disappointed that we seemed to have thrown it away. 

[Big_Nige]

5 hours ago, Big_Nige said:

Edited 27 October 2022 by Big_Nige
Wrong thread

[Hamilton Fox]

14 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

And it is a healthy debate.

I think this was our key mistake in my view, being so close, one player could have pushed us over the line on both occasions.

 

No surprise that the team that pipped us in 19/20 Man U spend 50m on Fernandes who contributed 8 goals, and 7 assists in 14 matches, and 20/21 Chelsea recruited one of Europe's elite managers. 

 

 

I think disappointment, and being upset are all valid feelings but for people to label those seasons as a failure is nuts 

That first part about Man U strengthening is key, we absolutely shot ourselves in the foot by not buying anyone in either January to help push us over the line. 

[Bert]

7 hours ago, Big_Nige said:

I think after watching us drop the ball over Youri and Soyuncu, not maximising our potential profit, and now seemingly excepting they are seeing out their contacts, I’m more accepting of reluctantly letting Madders go this coming summer. 
 

As a club we can’t afford to let our star players walk away for nothing if we want to stay competitive. But equally as important we need to start identifying the correct profile of player again, and flipping them within 2-3 seasons. With our training facilities I really thought we’d be making ourself one of the most attractive clubs for players in the 20-24 age bracket before moving on to the “elite” but last last 24 months has been an unmitigated disaster. The signing of Faes gives me a little bit of hope that the club still has an eye for this sort of player and hopefully now Glover is in place we’ll have a clear identity again. 
 

We’re clearly going through a transitional phase, the squad massively needs a refresh, and we’ll need funds to be able to do that. Maddison is rightly the jewel in our rather rusty crown right now, he’s in the form of his life. But the mistakes we’ve made on and off the pitch in the last two years means we have no real bargaining power this summer and undoubtedly he’ll be hugely in demand. 
 

For reasons I hope he doesn’t go Newcastle, but that’s exactly the kind of place I can see him ending up. 

We were happy for both to leave this summer, but no one came in with any bids. 

[Fox92]

22 hours ago, The_Rorab said:

I'm pretty sure very similar things were aimed at Man City when they were newly taken over and aiming to splash the cash - and look where they are now.

 

It doesn't matter that right now they're not an elite team - they're gonna be aiming to emulate Man City's rise to prominence and have the money to back it up. If they offer Maddison a big wage rise, making him a key part of a team with a very likely upwards trajectory given said amount of money, which could push him into England contention too I have no doubt he'd be willing to go there. 

But surely he'll want to go to a great side already and win trophies. Newcastle are not that. Maddison isn't your average PL player and is 25 now.

 

 

[The_Rorab]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

But surely he'll want to go to a great side already and win trophies. Newcastle are not that. Maddison isn't your average PL player and is 25 now.

 

 

Oh no absolutely, I agree with you there. Given the opportunity of playing for say Man City/Arsenal or Newcastle I think he'd pick the big 6 club every day.

 

I just don't necessarily think a team currently winning trophies is going to buy him, for right or for wrong.

[Blanchflower78]

Loving his Insta post today 👍

[South Shire Fox]

Spurs or Chelsea in the summer is my bet. Think him and his mrs would jump at the chance of the London life. More chance of pigs flying then him ending up at Newcastle

Edited 28 October 2022 by South Shire Fox

[Marshall Cockney Fox]

Tomorrows game is where he needs to stand up to the media hyperbole. It's all good taking the piss out of Forest Madders. But if you really are big time and an Eng player. You need to show it against the top boys.

[Supergray22]

2 hours ago, South Shire Fox said:

Spurs or Chelsea in the summer id my bet. Think him and his mrs would jump at the chance of the London life. More chance of pigs flying then him ending up at Newcastle

I hope he plays a blinder tomorrow and convinces Southgate to put him in the squad. I think you’re right about the lure of London but I’m not sure he would flourish at either Chelsea or spurs (maybe I’m biased). I’d like to see him stay here if possible. 

[st albans fox]

His next contract needs to be for big money - that won’t be here but that doesn’t mean he wouldn’t sign an extension here with a reasonable release clause.  

[Sunbury Fox]

Sadly, even if Madders scores a hat trick tomorrow I wouldn't bet 5p on Southgate choosing him for the World Cup squad, even that stupid 55 strong squad he's picking ahead of the tournament. 

[Foxxed]

14 minutes ago, Sunbury Fox said:

Sadly, even if Madders scores a hat trick tomorrow I wouldn't bet 5p on Southgate choosing him for the World Cup squad, even that stupid 55 strong squad he's picking ahead of the tournament. 

For a blissful moment I’d forgotten his was still in charge of the team. Thanks for smack of reality buddy 

[Collymore]

I wonder if the Saka injury could open up door for Maddison. I doubt he will be out too long as he limped on for a bit. 

[st albans fox]

6 minutes ago, Collymore said:

I wonder if the Saka injury could open up door for Maddison. I doubt he will be out too long as he limped on for a bit. 

Bowen (if saka didn’t make it) 

[Wymsey]

9 minutes ago, Collymore said:

I wonder if the Saka injury could open up door for Maddison. I doubt he will be out too long as he limped on for a bit. 

If he played for Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or one of the Manchester teams - he'd definitely be considered.

 

Like Zaha, think Maddison gets overlooked because he's not playing for a so-called top-six club.

[Lcfc-1992]

17 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

If he played for Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool or one of the Manchester teams - he'd definitely be considered.

 

Like Zaha, think Maddison gets overlooked because he's not playing for a so-called top-six club.

I don’t think that’s the reason Zaha doesn’t get picked

[Wymsey]

1 minute ago, Lcfc-1992 said:

I don’t think that’s the reason Zaha doesn’t get picked

Having checked his Wikipedia, I apologise for that part of the post.

Didn't know he has a few caps for the Ivory Coast.

[Lineker's Lugs]

On 28/10/2022 at 20:39, Sunbury Fox said:

Sadly, even if Madders scores a hat trick tomorrow I wouldn't bet 5p on Southgate choosing him for the World Cup squad, even that stupid 55 strong squad he's picking ahead of the tournament. 

I think he's certain to be in the initial squad and equally certain not to be in the final squad.   That will be Southgate's way of claiming he's considering Maddison whilst actually having no intention of selecting him.