Maddison

[Bozman]

None of us will be bothered anyway come the end of January..

[1972 Fox]

44 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 

Forgot about him.

I think Southgate has too!

[oadby.fox]

9 hours ago, Apollo said:

Can anyone complain that he isn’t playing? Injured first 2 games and the team is winning games, so tough luck. Some of the responses in here are pathetic! Crying because a Leicester player isn’t playing is bizarre 

Yes. It seems like he’s only taken him due to mounting pressure and that’s a pretty crappy reason. Given the caps he’s given to other players over the last few years, the time to start to integrate him into the squad wasn’t last night but many months ago. He should’ve at least had the opportunity to prove himself in a nations league game or with a cameo at this tournament but hasn’t. The only reason to favour Mount/Phillips over him is a cynical one. The latter shouldn’t be anywhere near the team given current form/fitness. The former has had his chances and it would be smart to get everyone onto the pitch if you have the chance. 
 

Yes we have beaten Senegal, a decent side for sure, though we did struggle and almost go behind in the first 30 mins. Against a decent side, we might’ve been 1/2 down with a mountain to climb. You can only beat what’s in front of you but I think it’s wise to keep your options open in a tournament like this. Isolating and demotivating one of your most productive players just seems counterproductive. 
 

I would get it if he had played many times and been awful each time but he’s basically never played at all whilst some seem to get chance after chance with poor performances. The measure of this side isn’t whether we can beat an out of sorts Iranian side or a Wales team that were in effect already out of the competition. The measure will surely be whether we can go toe-to-toe with the best teams/go all the way. If he manages to do that without Maddison playing at all then fine but I doubt we will be able to just steamroll France, Spain etc. There will be moments where we maybe go behind or struggle to break teams down and that’s when you want to try another option. To not keep your best players motivated and involved is criminal imo and there’s nothing to suggest by recent performances that Maddison isn’t one of the best players in that team. Other players have had opportunities to deliver in the last two tournaments and many of them failed when the time came. To not let others have a pop in the dying minutes of a game that’s been put to bed just seems to scream a lack of forward planning. The trouble is we will never know whether or not with certainty how much of an asset could be to England because he’s never played. It’s easy to say we are doing fine for now so what’s the issue, but we could’ve been doing either better or worse with him in the side. He’s earned the chance to demonstrate what he can do.

[suffolk fox]

I for one is very pleased Maddison is not playing for England let him come back fresh and raring to go for Leicester.

However, to play Phillips and Mount over him and not to give him even 10 minutes against a poor Senegal is a slap in the face to him from Southgate.  It is so obvious that Southgate has his favourites and it is basically a 17 man squad.  (look at his regular players he has played in this tournament).

 

Unfortunately, Maddison will never get a look in whilst Southgate is England manager, bloke doesnt like him.  He was only ever included because of media pressure.

 

We havent played anyone decent yet, wait till Saturday, France will tear our slow lumbering defence a new one its coming home they say?  They all will be come Sunday morning.

[FoyleFox]

He'll be home on Sunday, hopefully not too downhearted and can get on with our season. Which is our priority. 

[Countryfox]

Me me !! ..  I know why ! ..  I know why !!
 

 

[UHDrive]

I hate to say this but in retrospect, amd when madders is back at seagrave I don't think he'll realise just how much damage psychologically this will have done to him. It's all well and good taking Instagram selfies with saka 10 minutes after the game but seriously, when he gets back onto the pitch in the prem I think he'll suffer some inferiority complex against the top 6 teams and international teamates. 

 

There are rumblings that he'll only go south if he moves. But he also doesn't want to be apart from his family and he can't stand Villa. I really hope we give him a package that keeps him here and that makes him the core of a team to play around him offensively, even if we make him the highest paid player on a long term deal.

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, fox_favourite said:

Was never going to play unless grealish isn’t available. Was taken on peer pressure it seems to me. Not given a sniff. 

And injuries 

players are there as cover for injuries 

 

If sterling returns then we simply have no injury issues - that doesn’t help him get any minutes. if stones hadn’t needed to come off yesterday then maybe he could have got a couple minutes late on but I think Southgate values things like clean sheets v highly and doesn’t want to risk losing them by making unnecessary changes 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

32 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

Me me !! ..  I know why ! ..  I know why !!
 

 

Go on then...

[Aleksz]

11 hours ago, Apollo said:

Can anyone complain that he isn’t playing? Injured first 2 games and the team is winning games, so tough luck. Some of the responses in here are pathetic! Crying because a Leicester player isn’t playing is bizarre 

This. I’m not really bothered. I’m supporting England, not James Maddison FC.

[Tommy G]

Southgate has played a blinder. Took him to relieve pressure on him from a media perspective and doesn't need to play him as the team are playing so well. 

 

I think Southgate doesn't owe him anything - he will always play his trusted stalwarts who have way more internaltional experience than Maddison.

 

Hopefully when hes back he's had a good experience, thats the best he can hope for. He's probably been tapped up a bit by a fair few of the other squad members... 

[RowlattsFox]

At the end of the Southgate can play who he likes and will trust his judgement. Maddison will always struggle to get into a Southgate team, although he's improved he doesn't have the characteristics Southgate wants from his midfield 3. In the same way I don't think Klopp would play Maddison at Liverpool either. 

 

 

[TJB-fox]

Is he even fit? Like genuinely fit? 

[Matt_Lcfc]

Should he have played a part against Wales? Yes. Should he have been substituted on when the game was won last night? Yes.

 

But ultimately it’s not easy right now. Saka, Rashford, Foden and Grealish have scored eight goals between them, you can somewhat see why Maddison isn’t featuring right now. 
 

Harsh, but Southgate has a winning formula currently, and I think he’ll be reluctant to change things, unless things are going badly against France.

 

Whether it’s right or wrong that Maddison has had a lack of England experience is kind of irrelevant.
 

Posters on here wouldn’t want Rodgers to just shoehorn a player in for Leicester when things are going well, so why is there an expectation that Southgate should?

Edited 5 December 2022 by Matt_Lcfc

[RowlattsFox]

Even if things go badly against France Maddison won't come on. Rashford, Grealish, Mount, Wilson and Sterling if he's back all get put on before Maddison does. Maddison will play some nation league or qualifiers that's when we're more likely to face a ridiculously defensive team and the others pull out because they can't be arsed. 

[fuchsntf]

16 hours ago, Frank Large's Black Book said:

Please Miss, can I have some of that.

You couldn’t take it…!!

[DoveValleyFox]

3 hours ago, oadby.fox said:

Yes. It seems like he’s only taken him due to mounting pressure and that’s a pretty crappy reason. Given the caps he’s given to other players over the last few years, the time to start to integrate him into the squad wasn’t last night but many months ago. He should’ve at least had the opportunity to prove himself in a nations league game or with a cameo at this tournament but hasn’t. The only reason to favour Mount/Phillips over him is a cynical one. The latter shouldn’t be anywhere near the team given current form/fitness. The former has had his chances and it would be smart to get everyone onto the pitch if you have the chance. 
 

Yes we have beaten Senegal, a decent side for sure, though we did struggle and almost go behind in the first 30 mins. Against a decent side, we might’ve been 1/2 down with a mountain to climb. You can only beat what’s in front of you but I think it’s wise to keep your options open in a tournament like this. Isolating and demotivating one of your most productive players just seems counterproductive. 
 

I would get it if he had played many times and been awful each time but he’s basically never played at all whilst some seem to get chance after chance with poor performances. The measure of this side isn’t whether we can beat an out of sorts Iranian side or a Wales team that were in effect already out of the competition. The measure will surely be whether we can go toe-to-toe with the best teams/go all the way. If he manages to do that without Maddison playing at all then fine but I doubt we will be able to just steamroll France, Spain etc. There will be moments where we maybe go behind or struggle to break teams down and that’s when you want to try another option. To not keep your best players motivated and involved is criminal imo and there’s nothing to suggest by recent performances that Maddison isn’t one of the best players in that team. Other players have had opportunities to deliver in the last two tournaments and many of them failed when the time came. To not let others have a pop in the dying minutes of a game that’s been put to bed just seems to scream a lack of forward planning. The trouble is we will never know whether or not with certainty how much of an asset could be to England because he’s never played. It’s easy to say we are doing fine for now so what’s the issue, but we could’ve been doing either better or worse with him in the side. He’s earned the chance to demonstrate what he can do.

I agree with this. This tournament will only be a success if we get something out of the France game. Beating Wales, Iran and an under-strength Senegal side is nothing to get overexcited by, especially given the bore draw vs USA. Even going out after a battling score draw vs France and a peno shoot out might make it an acceptable failure. 

However, not playing the Premier League's in form no 10 would be a huge mistake and Southgate would rightly be criticised for this, even if he has created an excuse not to. The England squad have a team of medical professionals and Physiotherapists at their disposal so you cannot tell me that they could not make a sensible, cautious decision to advise Southgate not to bother picking Maddison for Quatar. 

 

Quatar?

Qatar. That's it!

Edited 5 December 2022 by DoveValleyFox
Spelling

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, suffolk fox said:

I for one is very pleased Maddison is not playing for England let him come back fresh and raring to go for Leicester.

However, to play Phillips and Mount over him and not to give him even 10 minutes against a poor Senegal is a slap in the face to him from Southgate.  It is so obvious that Southgate has his favourites and it is basically a 17 man squad.  (look at his regular players he has played in this tournament).

 

Unfortunately, Maddison will never get a look in whilst Southgate is England manager, bloke doesnt like him.  He was only ever included because of media pressure.

 

We havent played anyone decent yet, wait till Saturday, France will tear our slow lumbering defence a new one its coming home they say?  They all will be come Sunday morning.

His favourites ain’t bad are they…adding young blood like Foden,Bellingham,Rice,

Phillips ,etc,etc over the last years…

I would love Maddison to get a crack,but Southgate is doing well so far…

I won’t let bias get in the way like it does many on here…

[gd4foxes]

Phillips and Mount both played such huge roles for England only at the most recent Major tournament - Euros!

They 100% should be getting in over Maddison. Dropping players that are cemented and worked well in a proven formula based on current form in the prem is just silly.

 

Southgate is doing well - what a great problem to have with the sheer amount of talent but only 5 substitutions available...

He's still controlling & winning games/groups comfortably, keeping clean sheets all whilst rotating for various experience & fitness levels.

Southgate is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. The only way to stop the criticism is by winning the world cup and that just seems unfair!

 

Either way this is a great experience for Maddison by just being there, of course he will want to play like they all do but its not over yet and his name will only be up there for future tournaments especially considering his age.

My only fear is if he does play other teams will see how superb he is and swipe him away from us in the next market.

Or if he doesn't then people assume its because he's not playing for a big 6 club, so moves - Its a catch 22!

 

 

[Dirkster the Fox]

Maddison got a spot to quell a media storm from getting too distracting, just before heading to Qatar.

 

A win, win for Southgate.  Good player in his squad, shuts the media up and keeps the noise all positive, but doesn't actually have to entertain playing him for a single minute.

 

 

[Chrysalis]

How many of the squad have now not had any minutes?

[Chrysalis]

4 hours ago, Bozman said:

None of us will be bothered anyway come the end of January..

Probably true.

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, Chrysalis said:

How many of the squad have now not had any minutes?

Ramsdale

Pope

Coady

White

Gallagher

Maddison

[Hirsty The Blue 94]

Some absolute biased nonsense on here by the way.

This is a World Cup not a Mickey Mouse friendly competition handing out token 15 minute caps for fun. He was injured (which was extremely unfortunate for him) for the majority of the group stage and since then rightfully hasn't featured. The subs Southgate made yesterday were the natural back ups in all the positions that were replaced. Whether you agree or not Mount is ahead of Mads in the pecking order in the attacking midfielder role, and Foden, Saka, Rashford, Grealish and Sterling are ahead of him in the wide areas. So it makes sense to give them the last 20 minutes over Maddison, because if say Bellingham pulled up in training day before the game on Saturday it would be Mount starting in that position, so it's more important to keep him fresh rather than dish out sympathy caps. Same with Phillips and Dier coming on yesterday, the natural next men up in their positions so need to keep them ticking over with game time.

 

That's not to say I think Mason Mount is a better player and offers more than Maddison would because I really don't, but that's the current pecking order and isn't going to change midway through the biggest tournament in the world. 

 

Also kinda weird that people actively want England to lose on Saturday to be somehow validated for their opinion that Southgate is crap, lucky, boring etc. 

 

 

[Countryfox]

4 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Go on then...

Already said ..  see my previous post near top of page 269 ..