Maddison

[Le Renard]

If Maddison was Spanish/French/Italian etc he would have played.  In England we have a history of not playing our most skilled players, or not building the side around them.  Paul Scholes was widely acknowledged by top foreign footballers as our best player during the so called golden generation, but what did we do? Stick him out on the left and expect him to tackle and track back.  Did Pirlo do that or Xavi?   It just seems there is an English obsession with the box to box midfielder, from Bryan Robson to Steven Gerrard, that never seems to change, England seems to prefer players who will grit their teeth , get stuck in and show some pashun, as opposed to a so called fancy dan like Le Tissier or Hoddle.

Edited 11 December 2022 by Le Renard

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

31 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I repeat, he's in the top 5 attacking midfielders in the world. It doesn't matter whether its his 1st game for England or his 50th, he should be an integral part of the team and one that is built around him. He's a big game player, scores and assists against the top teams and has really done everything he possibly can to put himself in the position he is in.

 

I'm trying to think of another player who is domestically so superior to those around him who has been shunned by the international manager and I can't think of many recent examples. It's staggering. I don't think it's blue tinted glasses, he's got 27 goal contributions in the PL in a year, it's nuts as fcuk.

 

I'm not disputing his form, he should've been involved before the tournament and I think he should have come on versus Wales to get a feel for everything post-injury, but Southgate not throwing him in last night isn't that surprising? And he shouldn't be lambasted for it.

[Ric Flair]

28 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

I'm not disputing his form, he should've been involved before the tournament and I think he should have come on versus Wales to get a feel for everything post-injury, but Southgate not throwing him in last night isn't that surprising? And he shouldn't be lambasted for it.

He should be lambasted, it's a disgrace. It's not surprising which in itself is appalling. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

4 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He should be lambasted, it's a disgrace. It's not surprising which in itself is appalling. 

 

Is it aye

[Unabomber]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Didn't seem to make much difference when he had 2 months off from May to July, hit the ground running all season. His form since October 2021 is just obscene.

 

He's in the top 5 best attacking midfielders in the world now IMO, an absolute travesty he's had to be a glorified cheerleader all month. 

Spot on 

1 hour ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

In a system he's familiar with... With players he's familiar with?

 

I'm not disputing his quality by the way I just think a lot of folk are looking at this through a blue tinted lens.

I just don’t see how it’s blue tinted lens, it’s just facts. I appreciate his niggle but once available he should be playing at least some part. When we were playing well second half we should’ve got him on to try and win the game. He is a game changer. The Mount and Sterling subs are mental. It is clearly personal with Maddison and I’m not sure why as he seems pretty legit off the field. 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

6 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

Spot on 

I just don’t see how it’s blue tinted lens, it’s just facts. I appreciate his niggle but once available he should be playing at least some part. When we were playing well second half we should’ve got him on to try and win the game. He is a game changer. The Mount and Sterling subs are mental. It is clearly personal with Maddison and I’m not sure why as he seems pretty legit off the field. 

 

Not for me, but alright mate!

[Aus Fox]

56 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

I'm not disputing his form, he should've been involved before the tournament and I think he should have come on versus Wales to get a feel for everything post-injury, but Southgate not throwing him in last night isn't that surprising? And he shouldn't be lambasted for it.

Not surprising based on previous games, but he should be lambasted for it. Over the last 2 years Maddison has more goal involvements than anyone other than Kane in that squad.

He has proven more than Grealish, Mount, Rashford, or Sterling that he can produce moments of magic out of nothing, he can perform in a poorly performing team, he is a genuine goal threat, both in terms of scoring and providing. 
Whilst England has most of the ball and were on top for large periods, other than Saka we didn’t look like creating to many clear cut chances, the game was crying out for Maddison and I firmly believe he would have at least created something for others.

[Nalis]

1 hour ago, Le Renard said:

If Maddison was Spanish/French/Italian etc he would have played.  In England we have a history of not playing our most skilled players, or not building the side around them.  Paul Scholes was widely acknowledged by top foreign footballers as our best player during the so called golden generation, but what did we do? Stick him out on the left and expect him to tackle and track back.  Did Pirlo do that or Xavi?   It just seems there is an English obsession with the box to box midfielder, from Bryan Robson to Steven Gerrard, that never seems to change, England seems to prefer players who will grit their teeth , get stuck in and show some pashun, as opposed to a so called fancy dan like Le Tissier or Hoddle.

I always found it odd that Hoddle dropped Le Tiss for the world cup squad considering Hoddle got the same treatment.

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

3 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Not surprising based on previous games, but he should be lambasted for it. Over the last 2 years Maddison has more goal involvements than anyone other than Kane in that squad.

He has proven more than Grealish, Mount, Rashford, or Sterling that he can produce moments of magic out of nothing, he can perform in a poorly performing team, he is a genuine goal threat, both in terms of scoring and providing. 
Whilst England has most of the ball and were on top for large periods, other than Saka we didn’t look like creating to many clear cut chances, the game was crying out for Maddison and I firmly believe he would have at least created something for others.

 

You're asking a man who hasn't played in a month to do something in half hour against the best national side on the planet. He absolutely shouldn't be lambasted for it even if you disagree with him, there's a very logical argument behind it.

[Tommy Fresh]

10 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I always found it odd that Hoddle dropped Le Tiss for the world cup squad considering Hoddle got the same treatment.

Didn't Le Tissier reckon it's because he turned Hoddle down at Chelsea or something along those lines

[Stinkenzo]

39 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

You're asking a man who hasn't played in a month to do something in half hour against the best national side on the planet. He absolutely shouldn't be lambasted for it even if you disagree with him, there's a very logical argument behind it.

Agree that if he wasn't gonna be allowed minutes in the Wales/Senegal games then fat chance he'd come off the bench against France, but the game against Senegal was won after an hour and he had an easy opportunity to see what he can do, even more so in the Wales game when he was giving minutes to players who needed it.

[Bordersfox]

1 hour ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Didn't Le Tissier reckon it's because he turned Hoddle down at Chelsea or something along those lines

They did not get on, Le Tiss apparently told him to fvck off or similar when he was managing Southampton.  He reckons Hoddle never liked him or his status at the club and constantly gave him a hard time in training.

Edited 11 December 2022 by Bordersfox

[MattFox]

1 hour ago, Nalis said:

I always found it odd that Hoddle dropped Le Tiss for the world cup squad considering Hoddle got the same treatment.

Hoddle’s entire England reign was full of odd decisions and terrible man management though

[funkyrobot]

2 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

You're asking a man who hasn't played in a month to do something in half hour against the best national side on the planet. He absolutely shouldn't be lambasted for it even if you disagree with him, there's a very logical argument behind it.

Southgate had two opportunities to give Maddison significant game time. Against Wales and Senegal when we had unassailable leads. The fact he didn’t and subsequently wasn’t going to play Maddison against France is exactly why Southgate should be criticised. A risk averse manager picks Mount ahead of Maddison. 

[Supergray22]

I hope that Maddison returns home from this in a positive state. He has been picked for a major tournament for the first time. Despite not getting any game time he will have spent the best part of a month as part of the squad and wil have gained a lot from that experience. As a player he has clearly matured, is playing better than ever and getting wide praise for his exploits. He will get more opportunities if he continues to impress and I see no reason why he won’t given his trajectory. He is still young and the next big opportunity at the euros is less than two years away. Some players will drop away due to age and form but he will be part of Englands future. His injury was desperately sad timing but his presence in the squad will not have gone unnoticed nor his impressive form of late. 

[dylanlegend]

Looking forward to Maddison smashing the goals back in for us. Media rightly slagging southgate off for not playing him. Poch starting him next England game and 2 goals from madders with one being a last min free kick. Southgate is getting too much praise for my liking he should have gone after the euros final. Driving a Ferrari like a mini 

[Dan LCFC]

Like I always said, he's never fancied him, for whatever reason. Him getting no minutes was no surprise but that's because he chose to never integrate him into the squad back in June/September when he should've done, when he'd demonstrated the form to do so.

[fox_favourite]

6 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

 

You're asking a man who hasn't played in a month to do something in half hour against the best national side on the planet. He absolutely shouldn't be lambasted for it even if you disagree with him, there's a very logical argument behind it.

But Southgate chose to bring on a player that has flown back to England (for the right reasons, so not criticising Sterling’s decision), fly back to Qatar, have little to no training before a man that has been there like Grealish or Madders.

 

I get what you’re saying, but in the same statement Sterling shouldn’t have played. And we don’t know what you’re saying is true as he wasn’t given a chance before. He should have played a part in the Senegal game or Wales game to find this out if he could play further in the tournament. That is bad decisions by Southgate.

 

Southgate also stated that he picked players on form, Madders - most consistent English player this season and Leicester‘a top goal and assist man last season, top goal scorer for us this season. Plays Mason Mount. 

Edited 12 December 2022 by fox_favourite

[PhillippaT]

These are all reasons, for me, why GS is just an average manager, and not looking to be anything more than that.  We beat teams we're expected to beat and lose to teams we're expected to lose to, so...  But the problem, is that we're pretty sure we've got good enough players to be able to cause the occasional upset, which isn't happening, so we need a better manager...  Pity the FA are content with an average one that toes the line -  shame for Madderz   But let's hope his form hasn't diminished...  

Edited 12 December 2022 by PhillippaT

[John12345]

I don't rate Southgate. What's he's very good at is man management of  English players. He's got that right. And I think.that and favorable draws has seen the success.

 

I actually think Brendo would be a good replacement. 

 

In terms of Madders it was obvious that bar injury and suspension crisis of epic proportion he was not playing. Even if he was fit I didnt see him getting on. 

[Gazza M]

He was only there because there were 26 spaces to fill which is bloated anyway in my opinion. I think 22 like it used to be was more than enough. 

James hasn't been involved for 2-3 years with the squad so was never going to suddenly get on ahead of the usual faces as Southgate isn't a risk taker. 

Maddison goes to Spurs or Arsenal in the next months and suddenly he will be in the friendlies starting, don't worry about that. If he stays with us I think he will stay on the fringes. Sad but true. 

[Captain...]

The France game was not the time to introduce Madders. I would have loved him to have been brought on for that free kick at the end, but realistically no manager is going to bring on Madison in that situation. 

 

The issue is the complete waste of the nation's league games in the build up to the WC to get Madison into the squad and figure out how he could make a difference.

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, PhillippaT said:

These are all reasons, for me, why GS is just an average manager, and not looking to be anything more than that.  We beat teams we're expected to beat and lose to teams we're expected to lose to, so...  But the problem, is that we're pretty sure we've got good enough players to be able to cause the occasional upset, which isn't happening, so we need a better manager...  Pity the FA are content with an average one that toes the line -  shame for Madderz   But let's hope his form hasn't diminished...  

With a bit of luck Gareth will decide his time is up by himself.  The chances of his tenure being seen as a failure are much higher if he stays until after the Euros, and he clearly didn't enjoy the negativity of the past year when results dipped.  If his successor wins something, he laid the groundwork for victory!  If not then he was underrated.  Win win.

[volpeazzurro]

1 hour ago, John12345 said:

I don't rate Southgate. What's he's very good at is man management of  English players. He's got that right. And I think.that and favorable draws has seen the success.

 

I actually think Brendo would be a good replacement. 

 

In terms of Madders it was obvious that bar injury and suspension crisis of epic proportion he was not playing. Even if he was fit I didnt see him getting on. 

Brendan would be a good replacement in as much that we'd get rid of him. But, I don't think for England's needs he's any better than Southgate tactically, particularly with his substitutions. 

[shailen]

It's a strange one with Southgate as I thought he did well at the last World Cup with the squad we had but I think we had the best squad this time round to win it. 

 

As a nation, we're obsessed as to how to stop other nations rather than to show our talents when we come up against someone half decent. All the talk was about stopping Mbappe pre match and not about the qualities we have. The mindset to go defensive when France went offensive ultimately cost us. We should have gone into the game fearless and confident that we were the better team and pegged them back so their attacking talent couldn't shine.