Maddison

[Fox92]

12 hours ago, Le Renard said:

If Maddison was Spanish/French/Italian etc he would have played.  In England we have a history of not playing our most skilled players, or not building the side around them.  Paul Scholes was widely acknowledged by top foreign footballers as our best player during the so called golden generation, but what did we do? Stick him out on the left and expect him to tackle and track back.  Did Pirlo do that or Xavi?   It just seems there is an English obsession with the box to box midfielder, from Bryan Robson to Steven Gerrard, that never seems to change, England seems to prefer players who will grit their teeth , get stuck in and show some pashun, as opposed to a so called fancy dan like Le Tissier or Hoddle.

Sorry but to label players like Gerrard and Robson as only "box to box" midfieldes  seems disrespectful. I'm not old enough to have seen Robson but I do know he is Man Utd's longest serving captain and widely acknowledged as one of the greatest English players of all time. More from my time, Le Tissier was a good player, I don't doubt that, but not at the same level as Gerrard. He was probably more skillful though. Scholes was a good player, more than just skilful, but some top foreign players saying he was good doesn't really mean a lot. The same top foreign players also said the same Gerrard and Lampard at that time.

[Le Renard]

33 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Sorry but to label players like Gerrard and Robson as only "box to box" midfieldes  seems disrespectful. I'm not old enough to have seen Robson but I do know he is Man Utd's longest serving captain and widely acknowledged as one of the greatest English players of all time. More from my time, Le Tissier was a good player, I don't doubt that, but not at the same level as Gerrard. He was probably more skillful though. Scholes was a good player, more than just skilful, but some top foreign players saying he was good doesn't really mean a lot. The same top foreign players also said the same Gerrard and Lampard at that time.

A box to box midfielder is not a criticism, it is meant to mean someone who's good at all aspects of the game, hence Jude Bellingham being rightly lauded. Robson was nicknamed captain marvel, threw himself into tackles, hence his injury record was pretty bad.  He was probably the first name on the team sheet for club and country, it is just the type of player fans/media and coaches generally liked, someone who could do it all.  Supporters like to see that type of player in the UK, it suits our full bloodied football, but when it comes to internationals England have generally been undone by someone like a Modric, Pirlo, Griezmann, these are the type of players that England generally only pay lip service to in the national team.  Things are changing in the English game, but we still love that Gerrard type player more than a Scholes, and he was probably appreciated more by his fellow professionals outside of the British Isles.  

 

"Xavi Hernández: "Paul Scholes! A role model. For me, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. He's spectacular."

 

When once asked “what does it feel like to be the best player in the world?” Zidane reportedly replied: “I don’t know, ask Paul Scholes.”

 

 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Le Renard

[Fox92]

13 minutes ago, Le Renard said:

A box to box midfielder is not a criticism, it is meant to mean someone who's good at all aspects of the game, hence Jude Bellingham being rightly lauded. Robson was nicknamed captain marvel, threw himself into tackles, hence his injury record was pretty bad.  He was probably the first name on the team sheet for club and country, it is just the type of player fans/media and coaches generally liked, someone who could do it all.  Supporters like to see that type of player in the UK, it suits our full bloodied football, but when it comes to internationals England have generally been undone by someone like a Modric, Pirlo, Griezmann, these are the type of players that England generally only pay lip service to in the national team.  Things are changing in the English game, but we still love that Gerrard type player more than a Scholes, and he was probably appreciated more by his fellow professionals outside of the British Isles.  

 

"Xavi Hernández: "Paul Scholes! A role model. For me, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. He's spectacular."

 

When once asked “what does it feel like to be the best player in the world?” Zidane reportedly replied: “I don’t know, ask Paul Scholes.”

 

 

I said in a thread the other month the best live performance I've ever seen against us was Griezmann. His awareness and intelligence is so good. We seemed to concentrate on Mpabbe so much that we forgot about Griezmann and he is the more intelligent player. But we don't seem to let our players do it. I have no doubt Foden could be tried in that role, and probably Rooney before. But don't take away the other side of Griezmann's game because he's all over the place and has the braun side about him, hence he ended up with a booking on Saturday.

[An Sionnach]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

I said in a thread the other month the best live performance I've ever seen against us was Griezmann. His awareness and intelligence is so good. We seemed to concentrate on Mpabbe so much that we forgot about Griezmann and he is the more intelligent player. But we don't seem to let our players do it. I have no doubt Foden could be tried in that role, and probably Rooney before. But don't take away the other side of Griezmann's game because he's all over the place and has the braun side about him, hence he ended up with a booking on Saturday.

I have often thought that premiership teams do not rely on English players for brain. Of course that shows in the national team. Maddison is a clever player but no Modric or Erikson. There is some evidence that Braybrook is showing that kind of intelligence and we must encourage that.

[Weller Wing]

This all just points to Madders moving to a ,so called bigger club, to get international recognition. 

I think that's how he'll be thinking as well as a big pay rise ☹️

[Sol thewall Bamba]

41 minutes ago, Weller Wing said:

This all just points to Madders moving to a ,so called bigger club, to get international recognition. 

I think that's how he'll be thinking as well as a big pay rise ☹️

Would have happened both way though. If he played every game, got goals and assists like everyone said he would have, then the rich clubs would have been all over him.

Edited 12 December 2022 by Sol thewall Bamba

[ClaphamFox]

44 minutes ago, Weller Wing said:

This all just points to Madders moving to a ,so called bigger club, to get international recognition. 

I think that's how he'll be thinking as well as a big pay rise ☹️

We're likely going to lose him and Tielemans in the summer. Those are two big holes to fill. Hopefully our new head of recruitment already has some targets identified...

[Tommy G]

45 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

We're likely going to lose him and Tielemans in the summer. Those are two big holes to fill. Hopefully our new head of recruitment already has some targets identified...

Agreed - but I'm not convinced, two big pairs of boots to fill....

[Le Renard]

2 hours ago, Weller Wing said:

This all just points to Madders moving to a ,so called bigger club, to get international recognition. 

I think that's how he'll be thinking as well as a big pay rise ☹️

For me he needs to go and play for one of the big teams in Europe, he won't because he probably likes his home comforts, hence one of the reasons he probably chose us was to be near his family. 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Le Renard

[SystonFox]

3 hours ago, Le Renard said:

A box to box midfielder is not a criticism, it is meant to mean someone who's good at all aspects of the game, hence Jude Bellingham being rightly lauded. Robson was nicknamed captain marvel, threw himself into tackles, hence his injury record was pretty bad.  He was probably the first name on the team sheet for club and country, it is just the type of player fans/media and coaches generally liked, someone who could do it all.  Supporters like to see that type of player in the UK, it suits our full bloodied football, but when it comes to internationals England have generally been undone by someone like a Modric, Pirlo, Griezmann, these are the type of players that England generally only pay lip service to in the national team.  Things are changing in the English game, but we still love that Gerrard type player more than a Scholes, and he was probably appreciated more by his fellow professionals outside of the British Isles.  

 

"Xavi Hernández: "Paul Scholes! A role model. For me, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. He's spectacular."

 

When once asked “what does it feel like to be the best player in the world?” Zidane reportedly replied: “I don’t know, ask Paul Scholes.”

 

 

if you write anything and put it next to a picture of Gandhi on facebook then it must be true

[Le Renard]

,

 

Edited 12 December 2022 by Le Renard

[Le Renard]

33 minutes ago, SystonFox said:

if you write anything and put it next to a picture of Gandhi on facebook then it must be true

Why bring Gandhi into it, next you'll be going down the road of 'Godwin's Law'! 

So you can't put legimate quotes on from ex footballers, because of the evil of Facebook and social media. People use all sorts of evidence to back their POV, or nobody on here would form an opinion, FT would be dead

[lcfc278]

4 hours ago, Le Renard said:

A box to box midfielder is not a criticism, it is meant to mean someone who's good at all aspects of the game, hence Jude Bellingham being rightly lauded. Robson was nicknamed captain marvel, threw himself into tackles, hence his injury record was pretty bad.  He was probably the first name on the team sheet for club and country, it is just the type of player fans/media and coaches generally liked, someone who could do it all.  Supporters like to see that type of player in the UK, it suits our full bloodied football, but when it comes to internationals England have generally been undone by someone like a Modric, Pirlo, Griezmann, these are the type of players that England generally only pay lip service to in the national team.  Things are changing in the English game, but we still love that Gerrard type player more than a Scholes, and he was probably appreciated more by his fellow professionals outside of the British Isles.  

 

"Xavi Hernández: "Paul Scholes! A role model. For me, he's the best central midfielder I've seen in the last 15, 20 years. He's spectacular."

 

When once asked “what does it feel like to be the best player in the world?” Zidane reportedly replied: “I don’t know, ask Paul Scholes.”

 

 

Pele "One of the greatest football talents I've ever seen who I would say came close to the finishing skills I had, was Matty Fryatt."

 

Maradona "Some people say I was the greatest there was, I say to them, sit down with your TV and watch Richie Wellens play and you will learn the truth" 

[Le Renard]

23 minutes ago, lcfc278 said:

Pele "One of the greatest football talents I've ever seen who I would say came close to the finishing skills I had, was Matty Fryatt."

 

Maradona "Some people say I was the greatest there was, I say to them, sit down with your TV and watch Richie Wellens play and you will learn the truth" 

You forgot the quote from Cryuff " Ade Akinbiyi is one of the best finishers I have ever seen, such a techincally gifted player"

[Weller Wing]

3 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Would have happened both way though. If he played every game, got goals and assists like everyone said he would have, then the rich clubs would have been all over him.

Yes they would have been all over him but he should have had his chance whilst on Leicester's books.

He could easily go somewhere to get the recognition but hardly ever play, ala Grealish.

Our club has had a great record for identifying young talent and helping them to the next level and I've no problem with that.

It's just they get overlooked because they play for Leicester. 

The 2016 Euros were a prime example of this.

Vardy , I think , had a slight injury at the start,  but Drinkwater was outstanding at that time and should easily gone instead of Henderson and a good few of the Spurs lot, who's heads had gone.

[cruzFOX]

Reading David bad irks comments on Twitter and find it hard to not disagree with him. Tournaments are short and games come and go quickly. Madders not getting any minutes at all is such a waste.

 

I so want to see an interview soon where southgate is asked what his big plan was with Maddison? Ok we know he carried that knee injury from the west ham game so he can’t use that excuse for the entire time as he was fine after a few weeks.

just wanna know did he have any intention at all of playing him? If so please tell us when? It’s a simple question.

 

moving forwards is England going to integrate madders into the team or is he back in the wilderness?

also feel Wilson should have had more chances but atleast he got one.

[ALC Fox]

I feel that Maddison was never going to have much of a chance to dislodge the players ahead of him. Not only were several players in imperious form (Saka, Foden, Bellingham) but there were others ahead of him in Southgate's 'tried and trusted' bracket (Sterling, Mount). Then there's Grealish who's moving into the 'tried and trusted' bracket but is also playing well.

 

I do think Maddison could've easily been given a chance in the Senegal game when the game was basically won. But there was no chance he was getting on ahead of Sterling and Mount against France, not when Southgate trusts them so much, and I understand the decision, even though I do think Maddison could've made an impact from the bench.

 

One thing in Maddison's favour, though, will have been his behaviour and how well he has integrated with the team during the tournament. If he's been a good team player and a great bloke to be around during that environment, I think Southgate will certainly pick him again in Euro qualifiers, friendlies, and Nations League games going forward. He's got every chance of being given an opportunity too, especially if Sterling and Mount's loss of form continues as the season goes on.

 

It's super annoying that we didn't get to see him play, especially as we know what he's capable of, but I wouldn't rule out Maddison having a future with England with Southgate still in charge.

Edited 12 December 2022 by ALC Fox

[foxfanazer]

Hope he's not too downbeat on his return. We need him firing for us like he was pre world cup 

 

He doesn't seem the sort that would be to be fair 

Edited 12 December 2022 by foxfanazer

[Corky]

12 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Hope he's not too downbeat on his return. We need him firing for us like he was pre world cup 

 

He doesn't seem the sort that would be to be fair 

We do appear to be a good club and environment to work in, he knows he is fully appreciated at Leicester.

[Weller Wing]

1 hour ago, ALC Fox said:

I feel that Maddison was never going to have much of a chance to dislodge the players ahead of him. Not only were several players in imperious form (Saka, Foden, Bellingham) but there were others ahead of him in Southgate's 'tried and trusted' bracket (Sterling, Mount). Then there's Grealish who's moving into the 'tried and trusted' bracket but is also playing well.

 

I do think Maddison could've easily been given a chance in the Senegal game when the game was basically won. But there was no chance he was getting on ahead of Sterling and Mount against France, not when Southgate trusts them so much, and I understand the decision, even though I do think Maddison could've made an impact from the bench.

 

One thing in Maddison's favour, though, will have been his behaviour and how well he has integrated with the team during the tournament. If he's been a good team player and a great bloke to be around during that environment, I think Southgate will certainly pick him again in Euro qualifiers, friendlies, and Nations League games going forward. He's got every chance of being given an opportunity too, especially if Sterling and Mount's loss of form continues as the season goes on.

 

It's super annoying that we didn't get to see him play, especially as we know what he's capable of, but I wouldn't rule out Maddison having a future with England with Southgate still in charge.

So ,there was no chance Southgate would trust Madders over out of form Mount and Sterling , the later may well not have been in the right frame of mind,through no fault of his own, as well.

 

And what goes in his favour is maybe if his behaviour was good and if he smiled and kissed enough arse,  he might get a look in, in a meaningless friendly in the future.

 

No wonder we'll never come close to winning anything 

[STUHILL]

Madders will be off in the summer or at least try damn hard to be. Hope that doesn't turn fans on him, as he has been brilliant for us, and I'd like to see him tested at title chasers and the champions league. Not a nailed on success at that level, but got every chance. 

 

Hope he stays and we can build a team around him, but I am depressing realist! 

 

[An Sionnach]

13 hours ago, Corky said:

We do appear to be a good club and environment to work in, he knows he is fully appreciated at Leicester.

Two months ago you would not have said that. As usual in football the only thing , the only thing that matters is results. He has been our outstanding forward by far but he won't put up with carrying us for much longer.

[foxfanazer]

26 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Two months ago you would not have said that. As usual in football the only thing , the only thing that matters is results. He has been our outstanding forward by far but he won't put up with carrying us for much longer.

Vardy did! Although I do feel like they're different characters 

[Paninistickers]

3 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

Vardy did! Although I do feel like they're different characters 

Indeed. Vards' personality is renegade, anti establishment, antihero. That swagger kid at school that even the bullies were terrified of. 

 

Madders is made of more classical hero.

[filbertway]

Madders and Newcastle are a match made in heaven. He's the piece of the jigsaw they're missing. They're a club that can look to achieve what he will be looking for with him as a regular starter.