Post Brexit Foreign Player Signings

[davieG]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-transfers-fa-brexit-22908214

 

 

Premier League cite Sadio Mane example amid major concerns over new FA transfer plan
Premier League clubs have been told by FA chief Greg Clarke that they must reach an agreement on post-Brexit transfers by October 31 - but proposed new rules are being deemed too restrictive amid a stand off

ByJohn CrossChief Football Writer
15:00, 26 OCT 2020

Premier League clubs have still got major concerns about the Football Association’s latest plans on foreign signings.

FA chairman Greg Clarke wrote to all 20 clubs last week stressing they must reach an agreement by October 31 to fall into line with Home Office rules on post-Brexit signings in time for the January transfer window.

But Mirror Sport understands the Home Office is ready to offer some flexibility on that deadline.

And they will not necessarily accept the FA’s “points system” on non-EU and teenage signings as their default position.

Premier League clubs will meet on Tuesday and there is a feeling the new rules would be too restrictive and, incredibly, Liverpool forward Sadio Mane would not have been allowed into the Premier League under the FA’s proposals which are designed to stop “average” signings.

They believe Mane would not have been able to sign for Southampton under the FA rules.

Mane has been a crucial part of Liverpool's success in recent seasons (Image: Getty Images)

Mane has since gone on to join Liverpool and become one of the best players in the world, but the Senegal star would not have qualified on international caps or playing for a major nation.

Premier League clubs believe up to 40 per cent of foreign signings in the past few seasons would not be able to move to England under the FA rules and see them as being far too restrictive.

The Premier League meet on Tuesday to discuss the issue but clubs are already pointing out that English, home grown players made up 35 per cent of starting line-ups last season and that figure was a five per cent increase on the previous season.

 

Clarke’s letter warned the clubs: “We simply can't agree to changes that could, if unchecked, destroy the pipeline of talent for the England teams.

“We want to maintain our relationship with you and urge you to consider changes to your League rules to provide these checks and balances.”

The row is highly unlikely to be resolved by the October 31 with no end in sight with the clubs unwilling to back down.

 

 

[fox_up_north]

Trying to avoid politics here but this is just another one of those things where allowing Brexit (in whatever form and for both supporters and adversaries) to just pass into no deal without long-term thinking and planning can impact massively on sport. It begs too many questions. 
 

Does it impact on our transfer targets? What counts as an important nation? What if a player already over here moves to another English club - does that mean it's a new set of rules? 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Although initially painful, restrictions on transfers in terms of overseas players would be great for the English game imo, not only would more English players be forced to get more games which would help the national team but it would also help narrow the gap between the top clubs and the rest. No longer would they be able to simply fill their sides up with foreign players, spending an obscene amount of money to speed away from the chasing pack. Man City being the worst example of that.

 

I'd love to see a 6+5 rule introduced across Europe as I think it would A: level the playing field a good bit and B: see some authenticity and national identity return to football but I can't see it happening, the franchise type clubs would simply set their lawyers on it and say it restricts trade and goes against the free market or something like that.

 

[Foxxed]

7 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Although initially painful, restrictions on transfers in terms of overseas players would be great for the English game imo, not only would more English players be forced to get more games which would help the national team but it would also help narrow the gap between the top clubs and the rest. No longer would they be able to simply fill their sides up with foreign players, spending an obscene amount of money to speed away from the chasing pack. Man City being the worst example of that.

 

I'd love to see a 6+5 rule introduced across Europe as I think it would A: level the playing field a good bit and B: see some authenticity and national identity return to football but I can't see it happening, the franchise type clubs would simply set their lawyers on it and say it restricts trade and goes against the free market or something like that.

 

If we banned some foreigners from playing football in the English leagues, English players would get more playing time, but with fewer top foreign stars the Premier League would draw in a many fewer viewers (and thus money), and English players wouldn't be able to learn from continental players. I can't see the Premier League throwing away its star status tbh. I'd rather see the Premier League promote youth football in this country rather than ban a number of foreigners.

 

Edited 26 October 2020 by Foxxed

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, Foxxed said:

If we banned some foreigners from playing football in England, English players would get more playing time, but with fewer top foreign stars the Premier League would draw in a many fewer viewers (and thus money), and English players wouldn't be able to learn from continental players. I can't see the Premier League throwing away its star status tbh.

That's pretty much the point I'm making, the positive aspect of it would be things become less driven by money and more like how they used to be and less commercialised.

 

I don't really buy into the English players learning off foreign players thing as bar one decent tournament (the last world cup) England have performed more poorly than ever at major tournaments since the influx of predominantly foreign players in the premier league. The best thing for the national team is simply more young English players getting games at the top level and at a younger age.

[Foxxed]

14 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

That's pretty much the point I'm making, the positive aspect of it would be things become less driven by money and more like how they used to be and less commercialised.

 

I don't really buy into the English players learning off foreign players thing as bar one decent tournament (the last world cup) England have performed more poorly than ever at major tournaments since the influx of predominantly foreign players in the premier league. The best thing for the national team is simply more young English players getting games at the top level and at a younger age.

Begs the question: you're assuming the influx of foreigners is the reason for the poor England performances. England never really performed well on the international stage, with 90 and 96 the only real exceptions and, of course, 66 but that's a hell of an exception, and if you look at some of the dodgy decisions in that tournament you can discount that too.

 

And let's be honest without Kante, Mahrez, Bergkamp, Cantana, Henry etc I honestly don't think the Premier League would hold so many good memories for me. And I doubt English versions of those would have just popped up without the development that seemed to have been lacking. We seem to have one of the best development systems now and we're, to be frank, a fairly new clup to top flight English football.

 

I'd rather invest and promote in the youth development than ban foreigner players. If we'd banned any of Mahrez, Kante, Kasper, Fuchs, Huth or Shinji I'm not sure we'd be where we are. Invest, develop; don't ban. It's very easy to look outwards to find blame.

 

Edited 26 October 2020 by Foxxed

[Scotch]

There shouldn't be restrictions on who clubs can sign, but rather, how many... 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 minute ago, Foxxed said:

Begs the question: you're assuming the influx of foreigners is the reason for the poor England performances. England never really performed well on the international stage, with 90 and 96 the only real exceptions and, of course, 66 but that's a hell of an exception, and if you look at some of the dodgy decisions in that tournament you can discount that too. I'd rather invest in the youth than ban foreigner players. If we'd banned Mahrez, Kante, Fuchs, Huth or Shinji I'm not sure we'd be where we are.

I'm not saying it's the reason either, I only mentioned it to disprove your point about English players learning from them which I think is a fallacy and I used the national teams recent record to illustrate that. You've said yourself Englan's record has hardly improved so that disproves your own point, they can't be learning much at all.

 

EPL clubs spend more on youth, far more than any other league in the world already. The problem isn't investment in youth, the problem that blocks the pathway of a lot of young players in EPL academies is how easily clubs can go and pick up an off the shelf ready made European player for millions as most are so terrified of being relegated from the league and the riches participation brings evaporating. The best way for English players to improve is by having a pathway to play lots of games in the EPL before the age of 23 and restrictions on overseas signings would undoubtedly force clubs into doing that.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Just now, Foxy_Bear said:

There shouldn't be restrictions on who clubs can sign, but rather, how many... 

Fully agree, do away with these nonsense international appearances based criteria and from particular countries and restrict it on how many such players you can have in the squad and starting XI.

[Glorious Leicester Fan]

6 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

That's pretty much the point I'm making, the positive aspect of it would be things become less driven by money and more like how they used to be and less commercialised.

 

I don't really buy into the English players learning off foreign players thing as bar one decent tournament (the last world cup) England have performed more poorly than ever at major tournaments since the influx of predominantly foreign players in the premier league. The best thing for the national team is simply more young English players getting games at the top level and at a younger age.

in regards to commercialism and money, the PL crossed the Rubicon a long time ago.

 

I also don’t think the monetisation of football is necessary a bad thing. Seeing Kante, a genuine world class player in a City shirt was a privilege. PL money made this possible. I think we over romanticise pre PL football. 
 
Post Brexit, we will see a decline in EU players playing in the PL, but I’m not sure this will automatically result in more quality homegrown players given the opportunity. We need to sort out our coaching first. Even then, what will stop top EU from buying them?

[Glorious Leicester Fan]

10 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I'm not saying it's the reason either, I only mentioned it to disprove your point about English players learning from them which I think is a fallacy and I used the national teams recent record to illustrate that. You've said yourself Englan's record has hardly improved so that disproves your own point, they can't be learning much at all.

 

EPL clubs spend more on youth, far more than any other league in the world already. The problem isn't investment in youth, the problem that blocks the pathway of a lot of young players in EPL academies is how easily clubs can go and pick up an off the shelf ready made European player for millions as most are so terrified of being relegated from the league and the riches participation brings evaporating. The best way for English players to improve is by having a pathway to play lots of games in the EPL before the age of 23 and restrictions on overseas signings would undoubtedly force clubs into doing that.

I don’t think spending more on youth = better quality players. We look for excuses that are not necessarily there. The reason why most young players don’t make the cut is that they are simply not good enough (for various reasons). 

[The Horse's Mouth]

Bring back the foreign quota 

[Muzzy_Larsson]

Just now, Glorious Leicester Fan said:

I don’t think spending more on youth = better quality players. We look for excuses that are not necessarily there. The reason why most young players don’t make the cut is that they are simply not good enough (for various reasons). 

Yeah totally agree, like I said EPL teams spend millions as it is on youth development and you ultimately reach a saturation point in terms of how much money you throw at it. Youth development is far from an exact science.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

8 minutes ago, Glorious Leicester Fan said:

in regards to commercialism and money, the PL crossed the Rubicon a long time ago.

 

I also don’t think the monetisation of football is necessary a bad thing. Seeing Kante, a genuine world class player in a City shirt was a privilege. PL money made this possible. I think we over romanticise pre PL football. 
 
Post Brexit, we will see a decline in EU players playing in the PL, but I’m not sure this will automatically result in more quality homegrown players given the opportunity. We need to sort out our coaching first. Even then, what will stop top EU from buying them?

Yes again that is my point, it has long crossed the rubicon hence a change such as this could help bring it back a tad.

 

Monetisation is a terrible thing long term in football as ultimately it reaches saturation point and then the bigger clubs run the risk of letting football eat itself, like with the machiavellian tactics they are currently employing to complete a power grab and more money for themselves with these self serving reforms that they proposed.

 

Do you really need me to answer the last question? The EPL is by far the richest most financially lucrative league in the world, teams like Barcelona are struggling to get teams like Everton to sell them players these days.

[Glorious Leicester Fan]

1 minute ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

Yes again that is my point, it has long crossed the rubicon hence a change such as this could help bring it back a tad.

 

Monetisation is a terrible thing long term in football as ultimately it reaches saturation point and then the bigger clubs run the risk of letting football eat itself, like with the machiavellian tactics they are currently employing to complete a power grab and more money for themselves with these self serving reforms that they proposed.

 

Do you really need me to answer the last question? The EPL is by far the richest most financially lucrative league in the world, teams like Barcelona are struggling to get teams like Everton to sell them players these days.

 The reason PL is so successful is because of its global revenue streams. If we restrict EU players and increase homegrown players, it will eventually loose its attraction on the global arena. They will move to a more ‘international’ European leagues. Consequently these leagues will be able to pay higher wages and poach UK players.

[Richard]

I don’t think it would necessarily improve the quality of English players - you’d just get now championship quality players playing in the PL and the general standard would drop

[foxpleasure]

1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Trying to avoid politics here but this is just another one of those things where allowing Brexit (in whatever form and for both supporters and adversaries) to just pass into no deal without long-term thinking and planning can impact massively on sport. It begs too many questions. 
 

Does it impact on our transfer targets? What counts as an important nation? What if a player already over here moves to another English club - does that mean it's a new set of rules? 

Not wishing to be controversial but didn't Boris say there were no negatives to Brexit

[Dan LCFC]

It would drop the standard of the league.

[davieG]

1 hour ago, foxpleasure said:

Not wishing to be controversial but didn't Boris say there were no negatives to Brexit

Isn't this down to the FA not Brexit?   As in THE FA Transfer Plan

[reynard]

2 hours ago, Foxy_Bear said:

There shouldn't be restrictions on who clubs can sign, but rather, how many... 

Kind of ends up being the same thing doesn't it?

[Muzzy_Larsson]

2 hours ago, Glorious Leicester Fan said:

 The reason PL is so successful is because of its global revenue streams. If we restrict EU players and increase homegrown players, it will eventually loose its attraction on the global arena. They will move to a more ‘international’ European leagues. Consequently these leagues will be able to pay higher wages and poach UK players.

If it’s all about money then your correct but my point from the start is I’d like to think football could return to somewhere where it’s more than just that.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, Dan LCFC said:

It would drop the standard of the league.

It would for a while but English clubs would soon re-aclimitise. English clubs dominated Europe long before there even was an EPL. Anything to bring the rawness and the authenticity of the game back is a good thing imo. If money and generating as much of it as possible is the sole driver then of course it wouldn’t be a good thing.

[Scotch]

18 minutes ago, reynard said:

Kind of ends up being the same thing doesn't it?

Not really. Instead of it being a case of nationality and international caps etc, it would be a case of being able to sign anyone from any country despite not playing international football.... You just can't sign a whole team of them.

[Aus Fox]

England’s problems for years has far less to do with foreign players playing in the Premier League and more to do with the lack of English players willing to move abroad themselves.

We appear to develop players who want to sit in their comfort zone, rather than going to play in Spain, Italy or Germany. 
Look at any successful team internationally they have players playing in all major European leagues and experienced players in many different environments.

 

[lgfualol]

This will just turn into the "big 6" signing who they want while we struggle to sign anyone foreign because if it isnt a "big 6" signing the player must be average.