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jonthefox

The “ I’ve got something to say, but it doesn’t warrant its own thread “ thread.

By jonthefox, in General Chat

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marbles

marbles

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, LiberalFox said:

I think Jon's position is linked to his opinions on trans issues (I'm assuming a bit but the language used and his history on the matter make me think this). The context is that there used to be a separate gender category for men and women best artist but this was changed and it was changed after a prominent artist (Sam Smith) who is non-binary made it known they were upset that there wasn't a category that they felt included them. 

 

From an 'inclusiveness' point of view the argument in favour of gender segregation tends to be that society is biased towards men and that an 'open' category would therefore be dominated my men perpetuating a cycle of men being seen as more competent and undervaluing women. 

 

Having looked at the issue myself it's not clear to me that women are being disadvantaged. It seems across the range of categories that there was a much more even balance in terms of gender. For a 5 nominee list you would have a chance of 1 in 32 to pick 5 people of the same gender in a given category which isn't mathematically that unlikely. Last year a woman (Adele) won the category. 

 

I think the issue was poorly handled because Sam Smith made his feelings known and the organisers first reacted by rejecting his criticism and then reversing their decision and that gives the impression that these things can be swayed by applying pressure.

 

I think you could easily compromise by simply saying each applicable category must include at least 1 man and 1 woman. At the end of the day the whole thing is a first world problem.  

 

 

Thanks for taking the time to explain.  I had no idea about Sam Smith.

It does seem like a no win situation for the awards committee - should they have said “just like your music must fall into a category, you must pick one”.  Should they have made a new category or was simply eliminating difference based on sex the only real answer.  I can’t say.

What I can say is that based on the article you posted, they absolutely made the correct decision.  

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taupe

taupe

Posted
Posted

I'm banning myself for a while. I spend too much time on here and it's not healthy for me. Yesterday's result pissed me off more than I thought it might, thought it should, and being on here just causes me to dwell on things that really don't matter. My online flippancy merely masks what I feel and how I deal with it. I'll still watch games (the women this afternoon) but I'll try to get back to my zen nonchalance about it, and not distress over the result. The sun's shining, I'm off for a walk with the dog. I've no formal banning period in mind so à bientôt. 

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Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, taupe said:

I'm banning myself for a while. I spend too much time on here and it's not healthy for me. Yesterday's result pissed me off more than I thought it might, thought it should, and being on here just causes me to dwell on things that really don't matter. My online flippancy merely masks what I feel and how I deal with it. I'll still watch games (the women this afternoon) but I'll try to get back to my zen nonchalance about it, and not distress over the result. The sun's shining, I'm off for a walk with the dog. I've no formal banning period in mind so à bientôt. 

Good man, hope the break clears the mind and improves your mood. 

 

What was even more distressing for me was how little I even cared about yesterday's result. The man has chipped away my enjoyment of football completey. 

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted

I find it difficult to extract much joy from football at the moment. I don't go to games or have a group of friends who are particularly into football so I don't have a massive social tie in. As for the club, well we won the premier league and then we won the FA Cup so I feel like I've already experienced Leicester's biggest achievements during my lifetime. We don't have a 'megarich' owner, merely a rich one so we are going down what I'd call the 'Southampton' route of having a decent academy set up and trying to develop players who either end up being sold for a profit or go to a lower division side after not making it. 

 

Now all the league winners are either retired or over the hill I struggle to relate to the team. But that might be partly my own age (I'm 35). In the past I was either a young kid looking up to my sporting idols or feeling at a similar level of maturity. But I don't really feel like there's much enjoyment to be had. If you're not some glory seeker who picks a money club then you get that satisfaction of following a club through thick and thin and getting to know the team. But we're a bit of a franchise outfit at the moment and I don't really get that enjoyment yet we aren't going to win anything either. I imagine Forest supporters will be delighted if they manage to stay up this season but we'll be either miserable if we stay up or even more miserable if we go down.  

 

Our club model means we are competing with similar clubs over being able to offer young talent the best chance of landing a fat contact at a money club. 

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Manini

Manini

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

This weather (low sun, borderline freezing cold but clear and bright) is hands down the best in the weather game.

I sat at a traffic light for about 45 seconds after it had turned green today because the sun was directly behind it. I was shaking my head because a van flew past me in the other lane too and I thought he’d ran a red lol 

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Miquel The Work Geordie

Miquel The Work Geordie

Posted
Posted
Just now, The Bear said:

Yeah.

 

"I like being out in the freezing cold and being blinded with the sun shining directly into my eyes". 

 

I like the summer too (including your very specific reference) I just don't think it's that "weird a take" to enjoy days like today. As Milktray touched upon some of us have frankly devastating bone structures and a selection of stunning jackets that would make your mum blush that really come into their own in this weather.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
On 14/01/2023 at 23:10, LiberalFox said:

I think Jon's position is linked to his opinions on trans issues (I'm assuming a bit but the language used and his history on the matter make me think this). The context is that there used to be a separate gender category for men and women best artist but this was changed and it was changed after a prominent artist (Sam Smith) who is non-binary made it known they were upset that there wasn't a category that they felt included them. 

 

From an 'inclusiveness' point of view the argument in favour of gender segregation tends to be that society is biased towards men and that an 'open' category would therefore be dominated my men perpetuating a cycle of men being seen as more competent and undervaluing women. 

 

Having looked at the issue myself it's not clear to me that women are being disadvantaged. It seems across the range of categories that there was a much more even balance in terms of gender. For a 5 nominee list you would have a chance of 1 in 32 to pick 5 people of the same gender in a given category which isn't mathematically that unlikely. Last year a woman (Adele) won the category. 

 

I think the issue was poorly handled because Sam Smith made his feelings known and the organisers first reacted by rejecting his criticism and then reversing their decision and that gives the impression that these things can be swayed by applying pressure.

 

I think you could easily compromise by simply saying each applicable category must include at least 1 man and 1 woman. At the end of the day the whole thing is a first world problem.  

 

 

I find it unbelievable that you can claim to be liberal yet not see that a combined category in something as minor as this has resulted in women being excluded in only the 2nd year of the category, and all because one man kicked up a fuss.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted
On 15/01/2023 at 02:34, LiberalFox said:

There's actually a pretty good account of this on the bbc from people who actually know what they're talking about with regards specifics of the music industry (as in not me).

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-64264069

Indeed a good article - and where we have only 20% of artists with a major label being women, we have clear lesser opportunity which should be rectified with a separate category.

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BenTheFox

BenTheFox

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, bovril said:

There are many things I'll enjoy about being back in the football league. 

The pain of being relegated suck. However, part of me wonders whether I will enjoy it more being back in the championship. Maybe I will start to see it for what it is, a Saturday out with my mates. 

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bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

The pain of being relegated suck. However, part of me wonders whether I will enjoy it more being back in the championship. Maybe I will start to see it for what it is, a Saturday out with my mates. 

The experience is perhaps more enjoyable. Obviously we won't be watching the same quality of player or competing for trophies like we have in the last few years but that's not happening at the moment anyway

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LiberalFox

LiberalFox

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

I find it unbelievable that you can claim to be liberal yet not see that a combined category in something as minor as this has resulted in women being excluded in only the 2nd year of the category, and all because one man kicked up a fuss.

I mean they are non-binary so not a man. 

 

Quote

Indeed a good article - and where we have only 20% of artists with a major label being women, we have clear lesser opportunity which should be rectified with a separate category.

I don't really have an opinion one way or another. 

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Daggers

Daggers

Posted
Posted

If a company fails to deliver an order - especially when you paid extra for an agreed AM delivery - and didn't bother with any communication, the company Chief Exec should present themselves at your doorstep for disembowelment. No ifs, no buts. Especially when it's a big fat order.

 

...And if the sales department fails to respond to your email or return a call then they should all be sacked and have their homes demolished. And maybe water torture too.

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Zear0

Zear0

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Daggers said:

If a company fails to deliver an order - especially when you paid extra for an agreed AM delivery - and didn't bother with any communication, the company Chief Exec should present themselves at your doorstep for disembowelment. No ifs, no buts. Especially when it's a big fat order.

 

...And if the sales department fails to respond to your email or return a call then they should all be sacked and have their homes demolished. And maybe water torture too.

Slight tangent, but it reminded me of something from a job I had in days gone past.  In the US, when the US Navy undertake sea trials for both surface and sub-surface, all the suppliers CEOs are present on the first outing.  There's a motivator to not f**k up.

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Daggers

Daggers

Posted
Posted
29 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Slight tangent, but it reminded me of something from a job I had in days gone past.  In the US, when the US Navy undertake sea trials for both surface and sub-surface, all the suppliers CEOs are present on the first outing.  There's a motivator to not f**k up.

Not sure I'd want Box's CEO sitting on my desk tbh. There's hygiene issues to think about and everything. I eat my lunch off it at the end of the day.

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