STUHILL Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 2 minutes ago, Babylon said: It's a difficult one, I'd rather have a good young player than a bad old one. But I'm going to presume when people talk about an experienced player, they mean a good one with something to offer. Experience is not only about the pitch, it's also off it. Setting the tone for the younger players etc. I totally get that but I'd like to hear some names thrown out there, as I have a hunch that the type of "experienced" player that we realistically have the budget for as a 4th choice and one that would accept that part role, wouldn't be anywhere near as good or as useful as some are hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 21 minutes ago, STUHILL said: Which experienced defenders are potentially available to come in this window do you think? I am curious about the type/quality of player you are thinking about to cover Evans. Have to remember a potential budget for a 4th choice CB and also what we are offering them and if they would be interested to settle for a role behind 3 other CBs etc MUSTAFI! Personally I think Gary Cahill would be the perfect fit, he had a similar role at Palace last season, stepped in and played 20 games when called upon. All we need is a back up and a stop gap, a player who will come in for a season or two, slot in for Evans when needed, then when someone like Tarkowski becomes available, you move them on. That’s what I expect us to do with Bertrand, why can’t we do the same with another defender, especially as we’ve lost Wes. There’s a reason why we kept Big Wes on our books, the same can be said for someone like Kompany when he was in the latter stages of his career at Man City, despite not playing much, to have these kind of players still in your squad is crucial. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UHDrive Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 4 minutes ago, kingfox said: He has experience, but has he proved capable of being a leading figure in defence? No he hasn’t. The 19/20 season we were fortunate, that both Evans & Soyuncu played the majority of Premier League games together, they built up a terrific partnership, until Soyuncu decided to be a twat at Bournemouth. Last season though, without Evans beside him, he looked a liability at times, that’s where the concern lies. Then at the Euros he didn’t look much better. It doesn’t matter if he has experience or he’s 25 years old, the proof is that Cags looks a far better defender when someone like Evans is beside him. What is this obsession with compulsively needing to buy a 30yr leader....Who may come here as a leader from another club, but then gets to a top end club and finds that his confidence takes a knock? That's what happened to cags in his first season yet look what happened with the team that he left behind! Iook around the prem clubs and Burnley have 2 equal CB's, not just one leader. Man Utd have 2 equal CB's when playing despite maguire being the captain. Man City's issues in the beginning of last season were not experience driven but instead they were the technical play that the back line adapted over time, but no one calls him a "leader". Leicester with Cags are quite balanced. But again, Evans doesn't dictate to Cags throughout the game and constantly bollock him. Fofana is a quiet type that gets the job done and I think he's a type that his experience will naturally come with time. Mentality within our team needs to encompass aptitude and all of our current defenders have that in abundance. It's a bit rich calling Cags a tw*t when he simply made a bad timed mistake, wrong place wrong time. Most of our players have lost the plot at certain times depending the situation or the opposite number they are playing. No one of us knows whether something was going on in his personal life or whether he'd been given a bollocking at work. Shit happens. I haven't seen it again though so why pick on that? Last season, how did he look a liability??? He was partnered with a new player and we know cags has language barriers although that's a throwaway comment. We ended up with the 2nd most PL points we've ever got so how on earth can you berate the cags/fofana pairing when Evans was out! I disagree again that cags looks better when playing with the experienced evans. As far as I'm concerned you have schmeichel behind them barking out orders. It's also no secret that our teams conceding goals last year was down to crap defending from corners/balls into the box/free kicks etc. The only issues are that I belive Evans was instrumental in was setting out the box. But even then, schmeichel has a say in that as well. Kabak is known to be very athletic and a good tall header of the ball, which might be one of the reasons for our interest. Fofana will be nurtured and seniority will come with time, it's the same with cags and anyone else that comes in. If Kabak comes in this season and evans gets injured then it's his job in terms of seniority to mentor our defenders so that they can win matches with the experience that they have. If the club want him then they have a plan for our defence and there are enough old heads within our squad including the leadership group that are their for this very same reason. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 35 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said: But you cannot seriously think that if Evans got injured and we had just signed Tarkowski, we would put Tarkowski in next to Soyuncu rather than Fofana?? I am pretty sure that is exactly what Rodgers would do. Anyway if we go back four this season it won't be Jonny on the bench , so one of the other two will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STUHILL Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 3 minutes ago, kingfox said: MUSTAFI! Personally I think Gary Cahill would be the perfect fit, he had a similar role at Palace last season, stepped in and played 20 games when called upon. All we need is a back up and a stop gap, a player who will come in for a season or two, slot in for Evans when needed, then when someone like Tarkowski becomes available, you move them on. That’s what I expect us to do with Bertrand, why can’t we do the same with another defender, especially as we’ve lost Wes. There’s a reason why we kept Big Wes on our books, the same can be said for someone like Kompany when he was in the latter stages of his career at Man City, despite not playing much, to have these kind of players still in your squad is crucial. Expected to sign new deal with Palace in latest reports. Doubt he would get 20 games with us and turns 36 this year and was always slow anyway. Personally I would prefer Kabak but Cahill certainly ticks the experienced box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 19 minutes ago, STUHILL said: I totally get that but I'd like to hear some names thrown out there, as I have a hunch that the type of "experienced" player that we realistically have the budget for as a 4th choice and one that would accept that part role, wouldn't be anywhere near as good or as useful as some are hoping for. Indeed, the sort that will a) offer something b) be of value and c) be experienced and not over the hill are going to be thin on the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 19 minutes ago, kingfox said: MUSTAFI! Personally I think Gary Cahill would be the perfect fit, he had a similar role at Palace last season, stepped in and played 20 games when called upon. All we need is a back up and a stop gap, a player who will come in for a season or two, slot in for Evans when needed, then when someone like Tarkowski becomes available, you move them on. That’s what I expect us to do with Bertrand, why can’t we do the same with another defender, especially as we’ve lost Wes. There’s a reason why we kept Big Wes on our books, the same can be said for someone like Kompany when he was in the latter stages of his career at Man City, despite not playing much, to have these kind of players still in your squad is crucial. Cahill played in an ultra defensive team that pushed about three people forward. Can't see him playing in a high line like we did often last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 (edited) 25 minutes ago, kingfox said: MUSTAFI! Personally I think Gary Cahill would be the perfect fit, he had a similar role at Palace last season, stepped in and played 20 games when called upon. All we need is a back up and a stop gap, a player who will come in for a season or two, slot in for Evans when needed, then when someone like Tarkowski becomes available, you move them on. That’s what I expect us to do with Bertrand, why can’t we do the same with another defender, especially as we’ve lost Wes. There’s a reason why we kept Big Wes on our books, the same can be said for someone like Kompany when he was in the latter stages of his career at Man City, despite not playing much, to have these kind of players still in your squad is crucial. Oh please tell me Mustafi was a joke? Cahill is also in talks to sign a new deal at Palace where he can easily expect to play 20+ games again rather than coming here and being 4th/5th choice Kompany was also still playing pretty regularly for Man City in his final season with 26 appearances Edited 13 July 2021 by moore_94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Babylon said: Indeed, the sort that will a) offer something b) be of value and c) be experienced and not over the hill are going to be thin on the ground. They are indeed , Tarkowski ticks the boxes. I would rate him in the top six English defenders . Burnley are are pretty average team but they remain in the premiership , he and Mee have a lot to do with that. He is not flashy but to compare him to Bennett is ridiculous. Read what the Burnley fans say about him , he is the real deal. If he had three years on his contract he would be in the £35 million category. An edit: he is as tough as they come, he rarely misses a match. Edited 13 July 2021 by An Sionnach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lesta Legend Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 1 hour ago, Jimmy said: can we stop acting like Cags is some inexperience kid? He has plenty of experience himself we don't need to buy a CB to get more I know man, when people suggest over-wise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 4 minutes ago, moore_94 said: Kompany was also still playing pretty regularly for Man City in his final season with 26 appearances Imagine how good they'd be if they brought in Gary Cahill instead of Ruben Dias to replace him and Otamendi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 1 minute ago, An Sionnach said: They are indeed , Tarkowski ticks the boxes. I would rate him in the top six English defenders . Burnley are are pretty average team but they remain in the premiership , he and Mee have a lot to do with that. He is not flashy but to compare him to Bennett is ridiculous. Read what the Burnley fans say about him , he is the real deal. If he had three years on his contract he would be in the £35 million category. Pretty sure when he only had 2 years on his contract Burnley were trying to get £40m+ out of us or West Ham, can't blame them for pushing for £25m+ with only 1 year left on his contract either with how much he brings to them Expecting a proper scrap between a fair few clubs to get him next summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 17 minutes ago, STUHILL said: Expected to sign new deal with Palace in latest reports. Doubt he would get 20 games with us and turns 36 this year and was always slow anyway. Personally I would prefer Kabak but Cahill certainly ticks the experienced box Doesn’t have to be 20 games, we might only need him for 10-15 games, but if Evans does get injured, then we’re screwed. As we can’t get in someone like Tarkowski, it’s better to have a stop gap until we can. As I’ve said many times on this thread, I’d have Kabak at Leicester, but at this moment in time regardless if the price is good, he just isn’t the right fit. 7 minutes ago, moore_94 said: Oh please tell me Mustafi was a joke? Cahill is also in talks to sign a new deal at Palace where he can easily expect to play 20+ games again rather than coming here and being 4th/5th choice Kopmany was also still playing pretty regularly for Man City in his final season with 26 appearances Course it was a joke, or I’d have made five paragraphs on why we should sign him Kompany played 17 Prem games in his last season with Man City, other appearances came in Europe, a competition where having experience is vital at times. Considering we’re in the Europa League, wouldn’t it be best to get someone in with a winning mentality, with decent experience of playing at that level, and don’t forget that’s exactly what Rodgers is after. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingfox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 7 minutes ago, Guest said: Imagine how good they'd be if they brought in Gary Cahill instead of Ruben Dias to replace him and Otamendi Maybe they would have won the league in 2019/20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphericalfox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 It's never ending. Block engaged... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 1 minute ago, kingfox said: Doesn’t have to be 20 games, we might only need him for 10-15 games, but if Evans does get injured, then we’re screwed. As we can’t get in someone like Tarkowski, it’s better to have a stop gap until we can. As I’ve said many times on this thread, I’d have Kabak at Leicester, but at this moment in time regardless if the price is good, he just isn’t the right fit. Course it was a joke, or I’d have made five paragraphs on why we should sign him Kompany played 17 Prem games in his last season with Man City, other appearances came in Europe, a competition where having experience is vital at times. Considering we’re in the Europa League, wouldn’t it be best to get someone in with a winning mentality, with decent experience of playing at that level, and don’t forget that’s exactly what Rodgers is after. Of course it would be good, but how many of those players are actually available? All well and good pulling names out of a hat like Cahill and Fonte but you have to look at whether they would actually be willing to join on the terms they would probably get to be a 4th/5th choice centre back with us compared to what other offers they have "don’t forget that’s exactly what Rodgers is after." - Targets always change, just because that is what he may have wanted in May doesn't mean it is what he wants in July - bare in mind he also didn't specify he required those attributes for every single player we sign, for all we know he could be happy with just Bertrand bringing that "older" experience to the team, Rodgers barely has much of a history when it comes to filling his squad up with older experienced players, he is happy to bring in younger players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Sionnach Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 Wherever you get football fans we will debate experience vs youth - till the cows come home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eaton Fox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 17 minutes ago, An Sionnach said: Wherever you get football fans we will debate experience vs youth - till the cows come home. An youthful cow or an experience cow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Eaton Fox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, Long Eaton Fox said: A youthful cow or an experienced cow Edited 13 July 2021 by Long Eaton Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 Just now, Long Eaton Fox said: An youthful cow or an experience cow I do quite like a bit of Veal to be honest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzzy_Larsson Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 1 hour ago, Guest said: I just fundamentally take issue with the ideas that a) the four or five years Tarkowski has spent playing Dycheball are going to be the deciding factor between our success and failure and that b) the departure of Wes Morgan, who played about 300 minutes across the entire season, means it's imperative we bring in an old centre back. You know when you read a word so many times that it stops seeming like it's a real word? I'm having that currently with "experience". When you think about it, it's mad we failed to qualify for the Champions League in 19/20 given we were able to call upon the invaluable experience and leadership qualities of Ryan Bennett. Maybe if we'd signed him on a permanent instead of Fofana we'd have made it over the line last season. Your overreacting no one is saying signing Tarkowski or not is going to decide success or failure, that's just unnecessary hyperbole. People are merely airing their opinion that they'd prefer an experienced centre back as opposed to a work in progress. Those on that side of the debate of course. Also whether it's Tarkowski, Kabak or whoever else they aren't going to be the Morgan replacement are they, that's just plain wrong. They'll be the replacement such that we no longer have to resort to Amartey as an emergency and quite frankly inadequate option at centre back. Morgan isn't needing replaced as he barely played at all last season, you don't have to replace someone that hasn't contributed to any meaningful extent. You can have experience and be crap, that's a thing. I thought it was fairly obvious that those who suggested they'd favour a more experienced option to Kabak also implied that said option would also be a good player. Context is key here, no one is saying always go for the experienced option they are merely saying given the current options at centre back, who in the main lack experience beyond Evans and who have looked a little suspect without Evans' presence, that going for an older head may be a better option at this point in time, if possible of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigga Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 1 hour ago, Attywolf said: I know people are worrying about leadership without Evans but I'll quote klopp he (Kabak) is a natural leader and has the potential to be a future captain Can’t rate him that highly…otherwise he would have signed him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 4 minutes ago, Rigga said: Can’t rate him that highly…otherwise he would have signed him Klopp needed/needs an immediate fix at the centre of his defence. Kabak is a longer term prospect,,to be bought on steadily, but capable of doing a job if called on, which is what we need, and what we're good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moore_94 Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 7 minutes ago, Rigga said: Can’t rate him that highly…otherwise he would have signed him They don't really need him Van Dijk, Konate, Gomez, Matip, Phillips/Davies 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergen fox Posted 13 July 2021 Share Posted 13 July 2021 7 hours ago, NasPb said: We do need experience yes but soyuncu has to be forced to take a step up and after playing in the euros and getting older he should have more responsability. Bertrand signing will help as well. We could even sell amartey and sign someone like Cahill tbh I hope this is a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts