Ozan Kabak

[mozartfox]

Who are his sources I wonder?   AFCBell or Rob Dorkset?

[The_77]

1 hour ago, MGLCFC said:

Why would Leicester bid €20m when Shalke are prepared to sell for €15m?

Someone else will tweet €15m and another will tweet €25m. Nobody really knows yet. 

Edited 14 July 2021 by The_77

[UHDrive]

13 hours ago, kingfox said:

We were also linked with him the season beforehand for £30 million, that’s when people were turning their nose up, the way he’s been for us, I would have actually paid it  

You seen some of the responses, some fans have an obsession when it comes to signing young talent.

 

Yes we need a 4th choice centre back, preferably someone who would be a good back up for Evans, if he gets injured again. I’d have Kabak at Leicester, but for the current situation we find ourselves in with our defence, he wouldn’t be a suitable fit.

Agree with this one. Experience if we can get it I.e. Tarkowski or settle for numbers and hope it pays off.

[moore_94]

4 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Agree with this one. Experience if we can get it I.e. Tarkowski or settle for numbers and hope it pays off.

I can see one of our current first choice centre backs (Cags or Wes) leaving next summer for big money

 

Kabak in this summer due to how cheap he is available for, and just that better defensive depth/quality should hopefully be enough for us for the upcoming season

 

Then Tarkowski on a free next summer to help fill the gap of whoever leaves

Edited 14 July 2021 by moore_94

[UHDrive]

10 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

I can see one of our current first choice centre backs (Cags or Wes) leaving next summer for big money

 

Kabak in this summer due to how cheap he is available for, and just that better defensive depth/quality should hopefully be enough for us for the upcoming season

 

Then Tarkowski on a free next summer to help fill the gap of whoever leaves

I think it will be Cags. Wes seems to be enjoying himself and seems an emotional kind of guy with an attachment to the club. 

 

I'm a bit concerned about Cags with 2 years left on his contract and no rumours of a new one. Maybe he feels frustrated that he was frozen out in his first season, or that his mate Under failed?

 

Yeah I haven't thought about it that way but if we got tarks on a free, Cags etc went and Kabak comes in, then the experience/quality and numbers are all there.

[kingfox]

11 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

Agree with this one. Experience if we can get it I.e. Tarkowski or settle for numbers and hope it pays off.

You agreeing with me now, my recommendation of Spankbang clearly made you a fan of me  

 

8 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

I can see one of our current first choice centre backs (Cags or Wes) leaving next summer for big money

 

Kabak in this summer due to how cheap he is available for, and just that better defensive depth/quality should hopefully be enough for us for the upcoming season

 

Then Tarkowski on a free next summer to help fill the gap of whoever leaves

All ifs, buts & maybes again.

 

”Hopefully be enough for us the upcoming season”.

 

You are just presuming as usual, but if last season is anything to go by, then it won’t be enough.

 

Kabak would be the perfect back up for Cags & Fofana, but he’s not the perfect back up for Evans, and when it comes to the defence, Evans is the one we most have concern over, due to a potential injury.

[moore_94]

13 minutes ago, kingfox said:

You agreeing with me now, my recommendation of Spankbang clearly made you a fan of me  

 

All ifs, buts & maybes again.

 

”Hopefully be enough for us the upcoming season”.

 

You are just presuming as usual, but if last season is anything to go by, then it won’t be enough.

 

Kabak would be the perfect back up for Cags & Fofana, but he’s not the perfect back up for Evans, and when it comes to the defence, Evans is the one we most have concern over, due to a potential injury.

You are also just presuming someone with experience would help, and if last season is anything to go by, Wes didn't exactly help out much for all his experience did he? You get someone older in and just like with Jonny there is an inherently increased chance of injuries. And anyone who is experienced but not 30+ is going to cost a lot more than we can afford to spend.

 

I fully believe if we had Kabak available to us last season, even if on loan like Liverpool had him, we would have made CL because an actual comfortable centre back (even without all this EXPERIENCE you seem to demand) would have helped us a damn lot more than having other make shift centre backs.

Edited 14 July 2021 by moore_94

[An Sionnach]

11 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

You are also just presuming someone with experience would help, and if last season is anything to go by, Wes didn't exactly help out much for all his experience did he?

 

I fully believe if we had Kabak available to us last season, even if on loan like Liverpool had him, we would have made CL because an actual comfortable centre back (even without all this EXPERIENCE you seem to demand) would have helped us a damn lot more than having other make shift centre backs.

Leicester vs Spurs will live long in the memory , no makeshift CBs as an excuse, in fact many thought we would be fine with that . Bale, Son and Kane were extremely unimpressed.

[moore_94]

2 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Leicester vs Spurs will live long in the memory , no makeshift CBs as an excuse, in fact many thought we would be fine with that . Bale, Son and Kane were extremely unimpressed.

We ended up with Soyuncu and Ndidi at centre back didn't we? Fofana going off injured completely ruined our system having to use Ndidi

 

We may have still lost but I think even having someone like Kabak coming off the bench would've given use a better chance as Ndidi could've stayed at DM as well and the issue we had was how easy Spurs cut through our middle, especially that Bale goal, sunday league defending 

Edited 14 July 2021 by moore_94

[kingfox]

4 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

You are also just presuming someone with experience would help, and if last season is anything to go by, Wes didn't exactly help out much for all his experience did he?

 

I fully believe if we had Kabak available to us last season, even if on loan like Liverpool had him, we would have made CL because an actual comfortable centre back (even without all this EXPERIENCE you seem to demand) would have helped us a damn lot more than having other make shift centre backs.

 

 

At this moment in time, with the situation we find ourselves in, experience over inexperience would clearly be the better and most sensible option. It’s the same bloody scenario with left-back, fans have warmed to the idea of Bertrand, because at this moment in time he clearly is the better and most sensible option, rather than getting in someone younger to compete with Thomas.
 

Bit hard for Wes to help out when he had a back injury mate.

 

The main concern is a potential injury to Evans. Soyuncu looked shaky at times last season, Fofana albeit extremely talented also fared better with Evans alongside him, Big Wes is gone and Big Dan isn’t good enough.

[An Sionnach]

Few CBs are fully ready at an early age for the responsibility of the position. You can make mistakes in some positions and get away with it but CBs ( and goalkeepers ) rarely can. John Terry and Tony Adams were exceptions to this rule but there are few others. Cags has benefited massively with Jonny alongside and Fofana looks to be doing the same. The combination of Experience and Youth seems the best method. What worries us is , if Jonny is unfit we could go a number of matches with two young CBs , it may work but history says not. If we do go for Kabak we will have to pray Jonny stays fit.

[moore_94]

1 minute ago, kingfox said:

 

 

At this moment in time, with the situation we find ourselves in, experience over inexperience would clearly be the better and most sensible option. It’s the same bloody scenario with left-back, fans have warmed to the idea of Bertrand, because at this moment in time he clearly is the better and most sensible option, rather than getting in someone younger to compete with Thomas.
 

Bit hard for Wes to help out when he had a back injury mate.

 

The main concern is a potential injury to Evans. Soyuncu looked shaky at times last season, Fofana albeit extremely talented also fared better with Evans alongside him, Big Wes is gone and Big Dan isn’t good enough.

You mean Bertrand who would probably be nowhere near signing for us if JJ, you know that other youngster we have at left back, wasn't injured?

 

So what if we do manage to sign Cahill like you want and like he did for Palace he misses a third of the season because he was also injured? (all muscular injuries as well so imagine how many more he will get playing for a team with a highline and he actually has to move?) Even David Luiz who you also mentioned missed 15 games through different injuries last season.

 

Realistically any "experienced" signing we possibly make to be 4th choice for us would be free/cheap, not exactly at a high point in their career and would be someone who was let go for a specific reason.

 

This is the top 10 list of free agent centre backs, they are all either after big wages, long term contracts, injury prone, or just crap. Not someone the club should be getting stucking with.

 

[UHDrive]

1 minute ago, kingfox said:

You agreeing with me now, my recommendation of Spankbang clearly made you a fan of me  

 

All ifs, buts & maybes again.

 

”Hopefully be enough for us the upcoming season”.

 

You are just presuming as usual, but if last season is anything to go by, then it won’t be enough.

 

Kabak would be the perfect back up for Cags & Fofana, but he’s not the perfect back up for Evans, and when it comes to the defence, Evans is the one we most have concern over, due to a potential injury.

You best get down on your hands and knees!

 

Agree with you on the last year and I've been advocating another CB for next year as a priority.

 

Depending on what system we play can indicate whether the defenders on the field are up to speed. Take the FA cup final for an example of when Albrighton came into a back 4 formation. If experience is anything to go by then perhaps what you are saying is that wes being on the right side of a back 3 lacks confidence as he is more isolated with players ahead of him, but throw an experienced team player next to him and our defence, without Evans, gave a us a clean sheet in a cup final when let's face it most of our players (apart from red bull vardy) would've been nervous given that we have a young outfield squad.

 

I agree with @moore_94 on the way forward though. If we can't get Tarkowski this year then get him on a free next year. Get Kabak in this year. Gags/Wes will probably go next year and there are the funds for continuing replacents with that sale.

[martyn]

Think if this has legs, it's likely to be succession planning for a potential Soyuncu or Fofana departure over the next 12 months or so, which makes sense given how we operate.

 

I do understand the clamour for an experienced player for when Evans isn't available, but I have a decent amount of faith that Soyuncu and Fofana as a pair in a 4 would work better than when there is no Evans in a back 5. Easier to understand when to mark and when to drop off, and less likelihood of getting dragged out of position when one of the wingbacks goes forward, which is a glaring weakness of Soyuncu. 

Edited 14 July 2021 by martyn

[kingfox]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

You mean Bertrand who would probably be nowhere near signing for us if JJ, you know that other youngster we have at left back, wasn't injured?

 

So what if we do manage to sign Cahill like you want and like he did for Palace he misses a third of the season because he was also injured? (all muscular injuries as well so imagine how many more he will get playing for a team with a highline and he actually has to move?) Even David Luiz who you also mentioned missed 15 games through different injuries last season.

 

Realistically any "experienced" signing we possibly make to be 4th choice for us would be free/cheap, not exactly at a high point in their career and would be someone who was let go for a specific reason.

 

This is the top 10 list of free agent centre backs, they are all either after big wages, long term contracts, injury prone, or just crap. Not someone the club should be getting stucking with.

 

Still don’t get it do you.

 

Why do you think we are signing Bertrand on a two/three year deal?

 

1) He can still do a job

2) Replacing valuable experience that we lost in Fuchs

 

No point going any further, as you are just presuming any experienced CB we potentially sign will get crocked, when at the end of the day, you can say that about any player that steps into our club.

[moore_94]

18 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

You best get down on your hands and knees!

 

Agree with you on the last year and I've been advocating another CB for next year as a priority.

 

Depending on what system we play can indicate whether the defenders on the field are up to speed. Take the FA cup final for an example of when Albrighton came into a back 4 formation. If experience is anything to go by then perhaps what you are saying is that wes being on the right side of a back 3 lacks confidence as he is more isolated with players ahead of him, but throw an experienced team player next to him and our defence, without Evans, gave a us a clean sheet in a cup final when let's face it most of our players (apart from red bull vardy) would've been nervous given that we have a young outfield squad.

 

I agree with @moore_94 on the way forward though. If we can't get Tarkowski this year then get him on a free next year. Get Kabak in this year. Gags/Wes will probably go next year and there are the funds for continuing replacents with that sale.

We were missing Evans starting for 14 games last season - won 7, drew 1, lost 6

 

Europa:

AEK Athens - 2-1 win

Braga - 4-0 win

Zorya - 1-0 loss (we had experience as Morgan played)

 

League Cup:

Arsenal - 2-0 loss (doubt he would have played anyway as we heavily rotated)

 

League:

West Brom - 3-0 win

Burnley - 4-2 win

Leeds - 4-1 win

Everton - 2-0 loss - Soyuncu was also out injured and we had a centre back pairing of Fofana and Ndidi

Burnley - 1-1 draw

Brighton - 2-1 win

Newcastle - 4-2 loss

Man Utd - 2-1 win

Chelsea - 2-1 loss

Spurs - 4-2 loss

 

Other than the last few games when the whole team crapped themselves and we were down to bare bones I would say we didn't do as bad as people seem to think we did without Evans

Edited 14 July 2021 by moore_94

[moore_94]

2 minutes ago, kingfox said:

No point going any further, as you are just presuming any experienced CB we potentially sign will get crocked, when at the end of the day, you can say that about any player that steps into our club.

Edited 14 July 2021 by moore_94

[An Sionnach]

When you pay 30 million for a defender you would expect to play him but in Jonny's absence Soyuncu -  Kabak  would probably make sense for obvious reasons.

[UHDrive]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

We were missing Evans starting for 14 games last season - won 7, drew 1, lost 6

 

Europa:

AEK Athens - 2-1 win

Braga - 4-0 win

Zorya - 1-0 loss (we had experience as Morgan played)

 

League Cup:

Arsenal - 2-0 loss (doubt he would have played anyway as we heavily rotated)

 

League:

West Brom - 3-0 win

Burnley - 4-2 win

Leeds - 4-1 win

Everton - 2-0 loss - Soyuncu was also out injured and we had a centre back pairing of Fofana and Ndidi

Burnley - 1-1 draw

Brighton - 2-1 win

Newcastle - 4-2 loss

Man Utd - 2-1 win

Chelsea - 2-1 loss

Spurs - 4-2 loss

 

Other than the last few games when the whole team crapped themselves we were down to bare bones I would say we didn't do as bad as people seem to think we did without Evans

That says it all for me. At the end of the day Cags wasn't in the PL team of the year the year before last for no reason, and Wes didn't scoop all the awards he did for his first season last year. Then you have the majority of the pundits views on them both. Jamie Redknap, Roy Keane and Souness (Keane in particular) lauded Fofana for his maturity in one-on-one situations. On the whole most agreed that it wasn't Cags best season. It does make me wonder whether Under could be attributed to that form.

 

But it wasn't as if he was terrible either and he is still, for me, our no.2 defender at the minute and who knows, maybe having another young guy in will help Cags to learn to take control of game management in the defensive third. 

[An Sionnach]

Soyuncu ,Fofana and probably Kabak are all individually excellent players, it is finding a reliable and consistent pairing that is the problem. However the game pressure is so fierce we can't afford to experiment.

[urban.spaceman]

11 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Soyuncu ,Fofana and probably Kabak are all individually excellent players, it is finding a reliable and consistent pairing that is the problem. However the game pressure is so fierce we can't afford to experiment.

Rodgers was confident in not replacing Maguire in the market and trusting Soyuncu with Evans, and that turned out extremely OK. We were just extremely lucky with injuries that season in the CB area (considering our other options were Bennett, Morgan, Amartey and Fuchs). This season won't be as condensed as the last and they get a decent pre-season together too, so I trust Rodgers and the club's judgement to get it right.

[STUHILL]

17 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Soyuncu ,Fofana and probably Kabak are all individually excellent players, it is finding a reliable and consistent pairing that is the problem. However the game pressure is so fierce we can't afford to experiment.

surely any new player arriving is an experiment? 

 

Fofana, Evans, Soyuncu and Amartey have all played together. Any new signing, young or old, will likely require some bedding in time. There is no changing that. What you hope is and it is more probable than not, is that we can start the season with Evans paired with Fofana or Soyuncu. Then the new signing can be brought in gradually, given some cup games etc. This is what usually happens. 

 

All these IFs and BUTs about injuries, cover, experience etc can go a bit too overboard IMO. Cahill (hate mentioning someone we haven't even been linked with!) may struggle at 36 to adapt to Rodger's style much more than a young, energetic and hungry Kabak... or maybe not! It's just an unknown. That's why I think you can't just look at one aspect of what a player may or may not bring. 

 

There is also a realism needed which includes our transfer budget/wage budget/sell on value/keeping players happy & motivated and not to mention our other areas of weakness (starting RW) that need addressing and is a bigger issue than if our 4th choice CB has the right amount of experience to do well for us or not.

 

Just my opinion anyway. I actually think at £12million, Kabak will have a fair few offers come the end of the window and maybe ones where he gets to start, so although we seem keen, could all come to nothing. Just hope we don't end up with Amartey or N'didi as 4th choice CB, as even in cup games, that wouldn't be too great.  

 

 

[LestaLad]

👀

[Pliskin]

2 minutes ago, LestaLad said:

👀

How old is he? 12?

[Genesis1]

45 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

Soyuncu ,Fofana and probably Kabak are all individually excellent players, it is finding a reliable and consistent pairing that is the problem. However the game pressure is so fierce we can't afford to experiment.

The only concern I have is if you eventually end up with Justin and Castange either sign you've got a lot of players doing there thing and no real leader.