The "do they mean us?" thread pt 3

[Guest ttfn]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Vardys chance conversion is and has for about 5/6 years been world class. Its nonsensical to say he's not a good finisher. 

 

Someone was trying to argue Fowler was a better player. lmao. He had about two good seasons.

Better player? No.

 

Better finisher? I’ve never seen a better finisher than Fowler. He only knew how to stick the ball in the back of the net, so much so that the game quickly left him behind. But if the ball drops in the penalty area and I can choose any player I’ve ever seen play to stick it away it’s Fowler or Inzaghi. 

[CrazyKopCorner]

9 hours ago, He aint bald said:

Heard about this over the years but never looked. From 1.00, straight from the horses mouth.

Wow - Is he still earning money as a pundit? - embarrassingly ill informed. You hear better views and analysis in the pub. 

 

They really should have I.Q tests before putting these bozos on TV

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

7 hours ago, ttfn said:

Better player? No.

 

Better finisher? I’ve never seen a better finisher than Fowler. He only knew how to stick the ball in the back of the net, so much so that the game quickly left him behind. But if the ball drops in the penalty area and I can choose any player I’ve ever seen play to stick it away it’s Fowler or Inzaghi. 

Fowler was good for about 3 seasons.

[PhillippaT]

This whole thing just sounds to me like being part of the old 'striker' vs 'centre-foward' debate. Zzzzzzz. 

[foxfanazer]

Can we stop giving media jobs to ex players that did nothing in the game? Who wants to know Agbonlahor's opinion on anything?

[majaco]

Michael Owen is a natural pundit.  He talks absolute tosh.

[Unabomber]

I reckon talksport must do the opposite of an IQ test to employ these guys. I mean Gabby, O’Hara, Cundy…. They have some right idiots on.   

[Bert]

17 hours ago, Sambiasso said:

 

I actually think to some extent Agbonlahor is right and Vardy isn’t the most natural finisher. His pace, anticipation, reading of the game and his ability to get in the right positions is what makes him the striker he is.

 

But some of the strikers he’s named as more “natural finishers” is absurd. Drogba never a natural finisher. Les Ferdinand never a natural finisher. 
 

Vardy has worked so hard at becoming one of the best numbers 9’s England & the premier league has ever seen though, and he’s 14th for all time goals in the prem. Even in spite of this he’ll never ever get fully recognised for just how good he has been and still is. 
 

 

[RumbleFox]

Tbf, none of them as natural a finisher as Ian Marshall. X 

[Sunbury Fox]

19 minutes ago, Bert said:

I actually think to some extent Agbonlahor is right and Vardy isn’t the most natural finisher. His pace, anticipation, reading of the game and his ability to get in the right positions is what makes him the striker he is.

 

But some of the strikers he’s named as more “natural finishers” is absurd. Drogba never a natural finisher. Les Ferdinand never a natural finisher. 
 

Vardy has worked so hard at becoming one of the best numbers 9’s England & the premier league has ever seen though, and he’s 14th for all time goals in the prem. Even in spite of this he’ll never ever get fully recognised for just how good he has been and still is. 
 

 

I do think more and more fans of other clubs recognise him as a great player now. Certainly based on the fans I talk to down here in London. But for media pundits the main judgement on how good a player is tends to be whether they play(ed) for a  Greedy Six club. 

Edited 4 March 2022 by Sunbury Fox

[Kinowe Soorie]

It’s football snobbery of the highest order. Ex Liverpool players are the worst for it.

Gerrard, Carragher and Owen.

They see Leicester City as a minnow. The league win still rankles with them, hence why Vardy doesn’t get the credit he deserves.

How many times has he been one and one with a keeper, and slipped the ball past them? The Liverpool long ranger? The deft touch lob against Spurs? Hat trick v Man City? Left foot, right foot and numerous with his head.

Unfashionable Leicester City ruffling feathers, long may it continue.

[ALC Fox]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

I actually think to some extent Agbonlahor is right and Vardy isn’t the most natural finisher. His pace, anticipation, reading of the game and his ability to get in the right positions is what makes him the striker he is.

 

But some of the strikers he’s named as more “natural finishers” is absurd. Drogba never a natural finisher. Les Ferdinand never a natural finisher. 
 

Vardy has worked so hard at becoming one of the best numbers 9’s England & the premier league has ever seen though, and he’s 14th for all time goals in the prem. Even in spite of this he’ll never ever get fully recognised for just how good he has been and still is. 
 

 

The two goals at home against Arsenal in 15/16 and the West Brom goal where he hit it first time after the ball dropped over his shoulder will always convince me that he's a natural finisher.

 

His goal in the 5-3 win against Man United wasn't just head down and hit it either. Then there's the flicks against Germany and Man City. He looks like a natural finisher to me.

Edited 4 March 2022 by ALC Fox

[Xen]

13 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

The two goals at home against Arsenal in 15/16 and the West Brom goal where he hit it first time after the ball dropped over his shoulder will always convince me that he's a natural finisher.

 

His goal in the 5-3 win against Man United wasn't just head down and hit it either. Then there's the flicks against Germany and Man City. He looks like a natural finisher to me.

That one came to mind for me as well. Still a bit rough-and-ready in the premier league at the time, in a game which was already highly charged and full of adrenaline, 3-3 against a side who (on paper) were well above us quality-wise. Through on goal against one of the best keepers in the world at the time and he's got the calmness and composure to slot it past his near side rather than 'head down full power' like a lot of strikers would do. 

 

His game has developed so much since then and there's such a variety of incredibly well taken instinctive goals that it baffles me how anyone can claim he's not a natural finisher. West Brom was sensational, the Liverpool volley, Spurs lob etc etc. He's not just done it past average keepers, some of these are past the world's best. 

[ARM1968]

He is a natural finisher. Fuch me. Anyone suggesting otherwise is just a salty flap. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

46 minutes ago, ALC Fox said:

The two goals at home against Arsenal in 15/16 and the West Brom goal where he hit it first time after the ball dropped over his shoulder will always convince me that he's a natural finisher.

 

His goal in the 5-3 win against Man United wasn't just head down and hit it either. Then there's the flicks against Germany and Man City. He looks like a natural finisher to me.

His chance conversion is outrageously high. Whether that's natural or not he's a very very good finisher. We don't see him miss many chances when he gets them.

 

His goals to game ratio is 0.49. This is bettered by kane, salah, Wright, shearer, Henry, aguero and van persie.

 

Outside of them I'm not having any other striker ahead of him.

Edited 4 March 2022 by Chocolate Teapot

[Ric Flair]

Natural finishing is the same debate as pure ball striking in golf. The problem with it is, it's opinion based purely on reputation and hype and a feeling. Stats go out the window, we can prove Vardy is better than some of those listed merely because of the amount of goals he's scored in less games and certainly from less chances. You could also throw in there quality of chances, he isn't just a tap in merchant and his types of goals are very good, except perhaps for long range finishes as he's never really looked to shoot from outside the box as that's not the type of striker he is, he doesn't play deep.

 

I really hope he carries on getting 10-15 a season in the PL until he's about 40, I wouldn't rule it out you know.

[foxes_rule1978]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Natural finishing is the same debate as pure ball striking in golf. The problem with it is, it's opinion based purely on reputation and hype and a feeling. Stats go out the window, we can prove Vardy is better than some of those listed merely because of the amount of goals he's scored in less games and certainly from less chances. You could also throw in there quality of chances, he isn't just a tap in merchant and his types of goals are very good, except perhaps for long range finishes as he's never really looked to shoot from outside the box as that's not the type of striker he is, he doesn't play deep.

 

I really hope he carries on getting 10-15 a season in the PL until he's about 40, I wouldn't rule it out you know.

To be honest I think we can get another couple of seasons out of him, he is still quick but relies far less on that pace, he has adapted his game. 

[Ric Flair]

5 minutes ago, foxes_rule1978 said:

To be honest I think we can get another couple of seasons out of him, he is still quick but relies far less on that pace, he has adapted his game. 

Last season he struggled but this year he seems as good as he was the 1st part of 2019/20 season. He defies science.

[Hamilton Fox]

1 hour ago, Kinowe Soorie said:

It’s football snobbery of the highest order. Ex Liverpool players are the worst for it.

Gerrard, Carragher and Owen.

They see Leicester City as a minnow. The league win still rankles with them, hence why Vardy doesn’t get the credit he deserves.

How many times has he been one and one with a keeper, and slipped the ball past them? The Liverpool long ranger? The deft touch lob against Spurs? Hat trick v Man City? Left foot, right foot and numerous with his head.

Unfashionable Leicester City ruffling feathers, long may it continue.

The two back flicks he scored (Man City and Germany) would be played forever if he was wearing a Man U shirt 

[RowlattsFox]

When he's confident he is a brilliant finisher. When he's on a bad run though his finishing can be terrible, see the latter part of last season. I sort of see where the 'not a natural finisher' comes from but its just a lazy opinion because he likes to drill a finish more often than not. 

 

Vardy's record and conversation rate is astonishing. When we are talking about strikers of the past in 20 years time, unfortunately it will only be us mentioning Vardy because everyone else ignores him. 

 

 

[PhillippaT]

В Советской России все футболисты финишировали искусственно.

[Scotch]

24 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Natural finishing is the same debate as pure ball striking in golf. The problem with it is, it's opinion based purely on reputation and hype and a feeling. Stats go out the window, we can prove Vardy is better than some of those listed merely because of the amount of goals he's scored in less games and certainly from less chances. You could also throw in there quality of chances, he isn't just a tap in merchant and his types of goals are very good, except perhaps for long range finishes as he's never really looked to shoot from outside the box as that's not the type of striker he is, he doesn't play deep.

 

I really hope he carries on getting 10-15 a season in the PL until he's about 40, I wouldn't rule it out you know.

I would disagree. When it comes to defining finishing there is one stat that matters and that is shots per goal. Now, it's not an easy stat to Google but I have Vardy at around 3.5 shots per goal which is insane. I don't know how that compares to others mentioned but I have to believe it's high given his reputation for putting away those 1 or 2 chances he gets per game. 

 

I've always said, Vardy was never a world class striker but he was/is a world class finisher. 

[davieG]

14 minutes ago, RowlattsFox said:

When he's confident he is a brilliant finisher. When he's on a bad run though his finishing can be terrible,

I'm sure you could apply that to all strikers in fact all footballers.

[Ric Flair]

15 minutes ago, Scotch said:

I would disagree. When it comes to defining finishing there is one stat that matters and that is shots per goal. Now, it's not an easy stat to Google but I have Vardy at around 3.5 shots per goal which is insane. I don't know how that compares to others mentioned but I have to believe it's high given his reputation for putting away those 1 or 2 chances he gets per game. 

 

I've always said, Vardy was never a world class striker but he was/is a world class finisher. 

As I said, stats should prove whether a player is a good/natural finisher or not but that's often not how it's viewed. It's an ideology, an art form. The easy on the eye technique etc. Vardy wipes the floor stats wise with so many of them.

[Bert]

1 hour ago, ALC Fox said:

The two goals at home against Arsenal in 15/16 and the West Brom goal where he hit it first time after the ball dropped over his shoulder will always convince me that he's a natural finisher.

 

His goal in the 5-3 win against Man United wasn't just head down and hit it either. Then there's the flicks against Germany and Man City. He looks like a natural finisher to me.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying he’s not a natural finisher, he’s got some aspects of it. But wouldn’t say he’s an all round natural finisher. I would say deadly more than natural.