The "do they mean us?" thread pt 3

[leicsmac]

10 hours ago, MarriedaLeicesterGirl said:

We are an entitled bunch of turds, aren't we?

 

17 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

No not really 

I wonder how the above statistics might be explained, tbh.

 

We certainly pull up the Newcastle, Man U and Leeds fanbases for having unrealistic expectations of their teams, and this data seems to corroborate that.

[fuchsntf]

On 24/03/2022 at 20:12, Paninistickers said:

I'm.just hoping this write off of a season ends with ricardo, Timmy, lil wes, Evans and Vards all firing.....just leaving us wilf short if a full strength xi....combine those abive with Madders and Youri and Kels on song, that's a strong a team as any - not just in conference league but perhaps even europa league too

Sorry, we with fit quality players we 'are'

good, but just not that good..

Plus we haven't yet earnt the right to be compared to any of those European teams..We are only knocking on the door

[The Year Of The Fox]

39 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

I wonder how the above statistics might be explained, tbh.

 

We certainly pull up the Newcastle, Man U and Leeds fanbases for having unrealistic expectations of their teams, and this data seems to corroborate that.

Newcastle and Leeds haven’t won anything in about 80 years combined though. 
 

They think they should be winning stuff because they have a big fan base, which is the worst point you could give for reasons as to why you should win something.

United are on the decline- football works in cycles, Liverpool dominated in the 80s, United were nowhere. United dominated the 90s, Liverpool nowhere. All it is is United’s turn to be in the wilderness for a decade or so. Their fans would do well to remember that. 

 

Conversely when teams drop away from the ‘Big 6’ or whatever, another team can replace them. That team has looked like being us over the past 2 seasons. Factor in the owners investment into the club, and the wages the manager is on and that’s why the ‘we were league 1 14 years ago’ doesn’t wash. Our fans would do well to remember that. 
 

 

 

I don’t even think Leicester fans think we should be winning anything either. It’s the inconsistency in what Rodgers spoons feeds the supporters that gets a lot of us pissed off at him. You simply can’t win the FA Cup and finish 5th twice, yet then claim the players aren’t good enough to beat Warsaw and Forest.
 

And speaking for myself all I want to see is a manager who knows how to progress us. Whether the players are or aren’t good enough is irrelevant really (despite our success with the same players under Rodgers).

Realise there’s a set piece problem before the fans do and do something about it.

 

Realise there’s an injury crisis and do something about it.

 

The next issue on the horizon is that Daka/Ian up front and centre alone doesn’t work, and we don’t create enough even with Barnes and Lookman. How long will it take for Rodgers to address this issue once it’s manifested itself? 6 months, like the set piece and injury crisis’?

 

I don’t think that’s a lot to ask for really. 

 

 

Edited 27 March 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[leicsmac]

54 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Newcastle and Leeds haven’t won anything in about 80 years combined though. 
 

They think they should be winning stuff because they have a big fan base, which is the worst point you could give for reasons as to why you should win something.

United are on the decline- football works in cycles, Liverpool dominated in the 80s, United were nowhere. United dominated the 90s, Liverpool nowhere. All it is is United’s turn to be in the wilderness for a decade or so. Their fans would do well to remember that. 

 

Conversely when teams drop away from the ‘Big 6’ or whatever, another team can replace them. That team has looked like being us over the past 2 seasons. Factor in the owners investment into the club, and the wages the manager is on and that’s why the ‘we were league 1 14 years ago’ doesn’t wash. Our fans would do well to remember that. 
 

 

 

I don’t even think Leicester fans think we should be winning anything either. It’s the inconsistency in what Rodgers spoons feeds the supporters that gets a lot of us pissed off at him. You simply can’t win the FA Cup and finish 5th twice, yet then claim the players aren’t good enough to beat Warsaw and Forest.
 

And speaking for myself all I want to see is a manager who knows how to progress us. Whether the players are or aren’t good enough is irrelevant really (despite our success with the same players under Rodgers).

Realise there’s a set piece problem before the fans do and do something about it.

 

Realise there’s an injury crisis and do something about it.

 

The next issue on the horizon is that Daka/Ian up front and centre alone doesn’t work, and we don’t create enough even with Barnes and Lookman. How long will it take for Rodgers to address this issue once it’s manifested itself? 6 months, like the set piece and injury crisis’?

 

I don’t think that’s a lot to ask for really. 

 

 

I would say that any one of the "Big 6", as it exists now, can outspend us several times over (saving perhaps Spurs and Chelsea given the current crisis). And that is the key to consistent, several-season success - it doesn't guarantee it (yes Man U, looking at you), but it does vastly help the odds. That money buys the consistency of both performance and success spoken of here. It nullifies injury crises by bringing in quality players to replace if needed, replaces players with tactical deficiencies with those that don't. Look at Man City's bench, for instance - the resources they have in reserve are ridiculous.

 

I can certainly understand the frustration at the lack of consistency and the knock-on effects of it from some parts of the fanbase, as well as Rodgers not doing some stuff about things that are ostensibly within his power. But, at the same time, I think that sometimes too much is being expected of a club that, like it or not, is still financially small fry in terms of turnover compared to its immediate peers. Unfortunately that money breeding consistency is the nature of the game in this day and age and has been for decades.

 

 

Edited 27 March 2022 by leicsmac

[The Year Of The Fox]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I would say that any one of the "Big 6", as it exists now, can outspend us several times over (saving perhaps Spurs and Chelsea given the current crisis). And that is the key to consistent, several-season success - it doesn't guarantee it (yes Man U, looking at you), but it does vastly help the odds. That money buys the consistency of both performance and success spoken of here. It nullifies injury crises by bringing in quality players to replace if needed, replaces players with tactical deficiencies with those that do. Look at Man City's bench, for instance - the resources they have in reserve are ridiculous.

 

I can certainly understand the frustration at the lack of consistency and the knock-on effects of it from some parts of the fanbase, as well as Rodgers not doing some stuff about things that are ostensibly within his power. But, at the same time, I think that sometimes too much is being expected of a club that, like it or not, is still financially small fry in terms of turnover compared to its immediate peers. Unfortunately that money breeding consistency is the nature of the game in this day and age and has been for decades.

 

 

Of course there’s a money factor which puts us at a disadvantage to other sides we’d like to be competing against. 
 

A lot of our issues are in house though- other LCFC managers of recent times have been able to keep the squad injury free (possibly with less of a budget too)

 

Other managers haven’t had defensive set piece issues (we’ve always been crap at attacking set pieces) 

 

The issues above are issues the manager has some or a lot of control over. What’s done us this season (Fofana aside) isn’t down to bad luck or lack of financial power. It’s down to the manager either being far too stubborn for his own good, or the manager being essentially blind. 
 

He’s failed to deal with basic things that I’d expect a Sunday League team to have to deal with. It’s not entitlement that Leicester fans are guilty of. It’s frustration of being unable to deal with very very basic football tactics. 
 

 

Edited 27 March 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Of course there’s a money factor which puts us at a disadvantage to other sides we’d like to be competing against. 
 

A lot of our issues are in house though- other LCFC managers of recent times have been able to keep the squad injury free (possibly with less of a budget too)

 

Other managers haven’t had defensive set piece issues (we’ve always been crap at attacking set pieces) 

 

The issues above are issues the manager has some or a lot of control over. What’s done us this season (Fofana aside) isn’t down to bad luck or lack of financial power. It’s down to the manager either being far too stubborn for his own good, or the manager being essentially blind. 
 

 

And those are fair concerns that need to be addressed.

 

I think that perhaps where we disagree is on whether or not the proportion of negativity from the fanbase as indicated by these findings is proportionate to the problems being faced by the club. I'm not really convinced that it is - not at the present time, anyway.

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And those are fair concerns that need to be addressed.

 

I think that perhaps where we disagree is on whether or not the proportion of negativity from the fanbase as indicated by these findings is proportionate to the problems being faced by the club. I'm not really convinced that it is - not at the present time, anyway.

I think that’s the other issue though- it’s not just about what damage Rodgers has done to the club this season (which is still salvageable to some extent) but also alarm at where we could end up under him.

 

Now, fair play, he’s managed to stop the rot to a degree (note that I’m not saying he’s turned it around yet) but certainly from September time until 6 weeks ago any one of the below was a realistic possibility for the future

 

1. We finish bottom half of the table, not progressing in Europe. Important players leave, possibly at a cut price, having had their value depreciate.
 

This becomes to the detriment of the club and our finances. Because of that, we’re forced to replace the important players with players of a lesser standard. The devolution of LCFC begins (if it hadn’t already) 

 

2. We hang on to Rodgers for the summer, and await this much talked about overhaul- Which would basically mean an exodus of players who’ve fallen out of favour or doesn’t know how to manage. By October we’ve found out his summer signings aren’t up to standard and we decide to get rid. We’re now back to Square 1 with possibly the season in tatters. (Then see second paragraph of number 1)

 

3. Rodgers turns it around. He somehow manages to start keeping players fit (😱😱) He manages to keep the important players in the summer, makes some quality signings and we become a force to be reckoned with next season. 

 

Any one of those 3 possibilities for the future can all be caveated with the fact that Rodgers himself could up-sticks at any time and leave us with our pants down, after us showing blind loyalty towards him. If he leaves us in a mess like we have been this season, why would another decent manager find us an attractive proposition?
 

 

My point is, one of those 3 things above will happen at some point. So whilst I agree  that the anger at Rodgers might be out of proportion to what’s currently happened this season (Forest away- I’ll never forgive him for that humiliation) a lot of the anger towards him is because a lot of fans rightfully fearful of our future under him. If it does go very wrong, it will be seen as the start of our decline. I wonder how many of those fans who are currently calling out the negative criticism of Rodgers will then be complaining about him, after the horse has bolted? 

[An Sionnach]

We outperform every club from similar sized cities and have done for quite a while. Bigger cities tend to have bigger clubs. So far we are staying in front of Leeds and Villa as well . There was a time when Forest, Derby, Sheffield and even Coventry were above us but not anymore.

Edited 27 March 2022 by An Sionnach

[leicsmac]

5 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I think that’s the other issue though- it’s not just about what damage Rodgers has done to the club this season (which is still salvageable to some extent) but also alarm at where we could end up under him.

 

Now, fair play, he’s managed to stop the rot to a degree (note that I’m not saying he’s turned it around yet) but certainly from September time until 6 weeks ago any one of the below was a realistic possibility for the future

 

1. We finish bottom half of the table, not progressing in Europe. Important players leave, possibly at a cut price, having had their value depreciate.
 

This becomes to the detriment of the club and our finances. Because of that, we’re forced to replace the important players with players of a lesser standard. The devolution of LCFC begins (if it hadn’t already) 

 

2. We hang on to Rodgers for the summer, and await this much talked about overhaul- Which would basically mean an exodus of players who’ve fallen out of favour or doesn’t know how to manage. By October we’ve found out his summer signings aren’t up to standard and we decide to get rid. We’re now back to Square 1 with possibly the season in tatters. (Then see second paragraph of number 1)

 

3. Rodgers turns it around. He somehow manages to start keeping players fit (😱😱) He manages to keep the important players in the summer, makes some quality signings and we become a force to be reckoned with next season. 

 

Any one of those 3 possibilities for the future can all be caveated with the fact that Rodgers himself could up-sticks at any time and leave us with our pants down, after us showing blind loyalty towards him. If he leaves us in a mess like we have been this season, why would another decent manager find us an attractive proposition?
 

 

My point is, one of those 3 things above will happen at some point. So whilst I agree  that the anger at Rodgers might be out of proportion to what’s currently happened this season (Forest away- I’ll never forgive him for that humiliation) a lot of the anger towards him is because a lot of fans rightfully fearful of our future under him. If it does go very wrong, it will be seen as the start of our decline. I wonder how many of those fans who are currently calling out the negative criticism of Rodgers will then be complaining about him, after the horse has bolted? 

An erudite analysis.

 

I guess I'm less worried about such a decline than some folks are. Possibly because I think that such things are almost always manageable and can be turned around - even at short notice - and possibly because my own personal fortunes and thoughts aren't as linked to the success of Leicester as others are. For example, while I was unbelievably annoyed with the Forest loss, as far as I'm concerned now it was another game that we lost and something we need to take a lesson from, nothing more. Air through the engine. I understand that other people think differently and it's all linked to questions of identity, however.

[The Year Of The Fox]

14 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

An erudite analysis.

 

I guess I'm less worried about such a decline than some folks are. Possibly because I think that such things are almost always manageable and can be turned around - even at short notice - and possibly because my own personal fortunes and thoughts aren't as linked to the success of Leicester as others are. For example, while I was unbelievably annoyed with the Forest loss, as far as I'm concerned now it was another game that we lost and something we need to take a lesson from, nothing more. Air through the engine. I understand that other people think differently and it's all linked to questions of identity, however.

My anger at the Forest game wasn’t so much that we missed a great opportunity to Lord it over them at their place.

 

It was because a lot of fans saw it coming as soon as the draw was made. Yet the manager failed to step up to the plate, failed in his preparation of the players, failed in his team selection, then has the cheek to throw the players under the bus saying they aren’t good enough. 
 

You find out a lot about people when their backs are to the wall, and I’ve seen all I need to see with Rodgers. 

 

Apparently people thinking we’d lose to Forest were just being negative twats (yes I had money on Forest- it paid for the day out) Now we’re negative twats for not believing in Rodgers for the future
 

My prediction is we’ll have more bad days than good days under Rodgers from now until he leaves. This last month will be seen as the ‘blip’ rather than the rest of the season that went before it. And that angers me. It angers me others can’t see it, it angers me that people assume you’re entitled because of it, and it angers me that some fans are happy with it, because we won the FA Cup and finished 5th. They now want to accept mediocrity.

 

 

 

Twitter is where I vent that (more so than on here believe it or not😂)

 

 

 

Basically Rodgers makes me angry 😂

Edited 27 March 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

My anger at the Forest game wasn’t so much that we missed a great opportunity to Lord it over them at their place.

 

It was because a lot of fans saw it coming as soon as the draw was made. Yet the manager failed to step up to the plate, failed in his preparation of the players, failed in his team selection, then has the cheek to throw the players under the bus saying they aren’t good enough. 
 

You find out a lot about people when their backs are to the wall, and I’ve seen all I need to see with Rodgers. 
 

My prediction is we’ll have more bad days than good days under Rodgers from now until he leaves. This last month will be seen as the ‘blip’ rather than the rest of the season that went before it. And that angers me. It angers me others can’t see it, it angers me that people assume you’re entitled because of it, and it angers me that some fans are happy with it, because we won the FA Cup and finished 5th. They now want to accept mediocrity. Twitter is where I vent that (more so than on here believe it or not😂)

I guess only time will tell here.

 

But believe me, I get the anger at people not seeing something seemingly obvious and acting when you feel they are needed to - that's at least 50% of my contributions in the Gen Chat area.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

98% approval rating for our owners.

 

Hard to tell from reading on here - so much criticism for our manager, the ticket office staff or our fan engagement team.

 

Mad to think that top is the one that employs them.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10655909/Uniteds-Glazer-family-sink-new-low-four-percent-fans-supporting-owners.html

[Mr Weller]

8 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

My anger at the Forest game wasn’t so much that we missed a great opportunity to Lord it over them at their place.

 

It was because a lot of fans saw it coming as soon as the draw was made. Yet the manager failed to step up to the plate, failed in his preparation of the players, failed in his team selection, then has the cheek to throw the players under the bus saying they aren’t good enough. 
 

You find out a lot about people when their backs are to the wall, and I’ve seen all I need to see with Rodgers. 
 

My prediction is we’ll have more bad days than good days under Rodgers from now until he leaves. This last month will be seen as the ‘blip’ rather than the rest of the season that went before it. And that angers me. It angers me others can’t see it, it angers me that people assume you’re entitled because of it, and it angers me that some fans are happy with it, because we won the FA Cup and finished 5th. They now want to accept mediocrity. Twitter is where I vent that (more so than on here believe it or not😂)

That’s a lot of anger based on pure speculation. The facts, as they stand, are that he is our most successful manager bar Ranieri.

 

Having one mid table season and two top 6 seasons is not mediocrity for a club with Leicester’s resources. Of course we want more, and of course (unless we win the conference), this season has been disappointing after the last two, but Leicester under Rodgers have not been mediocre.

 

Edited 27 March 2022 by Mr Weller

[The Year Of The Fox]

Just now, Mr Weller said:

That’s a lot of anger based on pure speculation. The facts as they stand is that he is our most successful league manager bar Ranieri.

 

Having one mid table season and two top 6 seasons is not mediocrity for a club with Leicester’s resources. Of course we want more, and of course (unless we win the conference), this season has been disappointing after the last two but Leicester under Rodgers have not been mediocre.

 

But I’m not talking about what’s gone before. Of course two Top 5 finishes and an FA Cup win isn’t mediocre- it’s fantastic. (Even though it might’ve been two 4th placed finishes) 

 

Its the present that matters. 
 

The Rodgers of last season and the season before is a stark contrast to the Rodgers of this season. It’s almost like we’ve got a different manager. The football we’ve been serving up the last 18 months is totally different to the previous 18 months too.

 

How long do we hold on to something/someone because it used to be good? You don’t do that in a relationship, you don’t do that in a job, so why should you do that with a football manager (especially when fortunes can change so quickly and football is as dynamic it is? 

[Captain...]

3 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

But I’m not talking about what’s gone before. Of course two Top 5 finishes and an FA Cup win isn’t mediocre- it’s fantastic. (Even though it might’ve been two 4th placed finishes) 

 

Its the present that matters. 
 

The Rodgers of last season and the season before is a stark contrast to the Rodgers of this season. It’s almost like we’ve got a different manager. The football we’ve been serving up the last 18 months is totally different to the previous 18 months too.

 

How long do we hold on to something/someone because it used to be good? You don’t do that in a relationship, you don’t do that in a job, so why should you do that with a football manager (especially when fortunes can change so quickly and football is as dynamic it is? 

The difference has not been the manager it's the availability of key players. Rodgers isn't doing anything different from what I've seen, we've just been hit by injury after injury to key players so they aren't carrying out his plans as effectively. Hating on Rodgers for the present, when the actual present is pretty positive apart from the Arsenal game and dismissing his previous successes just seems like you have a problem with him regardless. Try supporting the manager victories always taste much sweeter when you fully support the players and the manager.

[The Year Of The Fox]

7 minutes ago, Captain... said:

The difference has not been the manager it's the availability of key players. Rodgers isn't doing anything different from what I've seen, we've just been hit by injury after injury to key players so they aren't carrying out his plans as effectively. Hating on Rodgers for the present, when the actual present is pretty positive apart from the Arsenal game and dismissing his previous successes just seems like you have a problem with him regardless. Try supporting the manager victories always taste much sweeter when you fully support the players and the manager.

The injury excuse doesn’t wash at all with defending set pieces. You don’t have to have zonal marking because Fofana broke his leg you know? 
 

Who’s dismissing his previous achievements? I’m not. I just recognise they’re in the past. Top players do this, which keeps them and the squad hungry for success in the future. Roy Keane talks about it a lot, as does Neville. 
 

 

 

How patronising 😂😂

 

I support LCFC not the person managing us. I want the best for our club, and I don’t think Rodgers can give us that. 

Edited 27 March 2022 by The Year Of The Fox

[sylofox]

18 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

The injury excuse doesn’t wash at all with defending set pieces. You don’t have to have zonal marking because Fofana broke his leg you know? 
 

Who’s dismissing his previous achievements? I’m not. I just recognise they’re in the past. Top players do this, which keeps them and the squad hungry for success in the future. Roy Keane talks about it a lot, as does Neville. 
 

 

 

How patronising 😂😂

 

I support LCFC not the person managing us. I want the best for our club, and I don’t think Rodgers can give us that. 

Rodgers is doing what Celtic and Liverpool fans told us he would.

 

Never his fault

Only one playing system

Poor tactical substitutions 

 

When it all works it's great.

 

Also think he's had injury problems at both of those clubs to.

 

So is his training methods to blame for a lot of the injuries. Obviously not in Fofana's case.

[The Year Of The Fox]

1 minute ago, sylofox said:

Rodgers is doing what Celtic and Liverpool fans told us he would.

 

Never his fault

Only one playing system

Poor tactical substitutions 

 

When it all works it's great.

 

Also think he's had injury problems at both of those clubs to.

 

So is his training methods to blame for a lot of the injuries. Obviously not in Fofana's case.

I know he is

 

When I reel off my list of complaints about Rodgers to my Liverpool STH mate, he’s basically stood there going ‘yeh, yeh, yeh’ like a checklist of what happened to Liverpool under him

[1972 Fox]

49 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

98% approval rating for our owners.

 

Hard to tell from reading on here - so much criticism for our manager, the ticket office staff or our fan engagement team.

 

Mad to think that top is the one that employs them.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10655909/Uniteds-Glazer-family-sink-new-low-four-percent-fans-supporting-owners.html

Villa high up on that list. 

[Jon the Hat]

13 hours ago, l444ry said:

What plank would sift through Twitter and come up with this? And what plank would even give it any credibility?

It's not someone manually collating data, its someone running a data analytics program on key words and tags.

[Vazman]

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's not someone manually collating data, its someone running a data analytics program on key words and tags.

I wonder what the key word is, that highlights our fans as  being critical on Twiter...

[ARTY_FOX]

I don't do twitter. But from what I can gather it's just one big cesspool of negativity isn't it? 

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

My anger at the Forest game wasn’t so much that we missed a great opportunity to Lord it over them at their place.

 

It was because a lot of fans saw it coming as soon as the draw was made. Yet the manager failed to step up to the plate, failed in his preparation of the players, failed in his team selection, then has the cheek to throw the players under the bus saying they aren’t good enough. 
 

You find out a lot about people when their backs are to the wall, and I’ve seen all I need to see with Rodgers. 

 

Apparently people thinking we’d lose to Forest were just being negative twats (yes I had money on Forest- it paid for the day out) Now we’re negative twats for not believing in Rodgers for the future
 

My prediction is we’ll have more bad days than good days under Rodgers from now until he leaves. This last month will be seen as the ‘blip’ rather than the rest of the season that went before it. And that angers me. It angers me others can’t see it, it angers me that people assume you’re entitled because of it, and it angers me that some fans are happy with it, because we won the FA Cup and finished 5th. They now want to accept mediocrity.

 

 

 

Twitter is where I vent that (more so than on here believe it or not😂)

 

 

 

Basically Rodgers makes me angry 😂

You make so many good and fair points, but your anger is that others don't perceive things as you do. I suspect we all do that to an extent, but it's not facts, it's all opinions that might or might not be correct conclusions. 

 

I recommend caring about it slightly less, it's healthier 👍

[The Year Of The Fox]

8 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

You make so many good and fair points, but your anger is that others don't perceive things as you do. I suspect we all do that to an extent, but it's not facts, it's all opinions that might or might not be correct conclusions. 

 

I recommend caring about it slightly less, it's healthier 👍

I fear we could be sleep walking into relative oblivion under Rodgers, and although the ones who have blind faith of him and call out those who don’t have absolutely no say in the comings and goings of our manager’s, it bothers me that people are prepared to put the club in the lap of the gods 

 

But I could certainly do with becoming less angry about him and those who I feel can’t see what I feel I see that’s for sure 

[l444ry]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's not someone manually collating data, its someone running a data analytics program on key words and tags.

Precisely, a plank running data analytics program on key words and tags