The "do they mean us?" thread pt 3

[pmcla26]

Just now, TheFish said:

Shearer gets underrated because of his poor trophy haul. He was genuinely one of the best strikers on the planet in his pomp. 3 major career threatening injuries, played for the majority of his career in pretty poor teams. He moved to us when we were legitimate title challengers, but poor direction from the boardroom and a slew of poor managers in the chair meant his best years weren't as productive as they could have been. 

 

I think while Harry Kane suffers from being interminably dull off the pitch, nothing on the pitch is particularly exciting either. Even his 30 yarders don't, I dunno, feel(?) thrilling. There's something almost pedestrian in their excellence? He's so professional, so practised that it's not impressive. He never beats a player with something unpredictable like Henry did, he's not got tonnes of pace, he's just a little sharper, a little stronger or a little smarter in the moment. Just like Shearer was.

I wouldn't say Shearer gets underrated. I think universally pretty much everyone agrees that he was a world-class number 9. 

[TheFish]

1 hour ago, Pete52 said:

I wouldn't say Shearer gets underrated. I think universally pretty much everyone agrees that he was a world-class number 9. 

I think maybe I'm a little too protective of the Lion of Gosforth. Saw Steve Howey talking about him on the Under The Cosh podcast, the way he speaks of him... it's almost reverential. Apparently Shearer's nickname was Shocks, because the conversation would go

Who scored?

Shearer.

Shocker

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, TheFish said:

Shearer gets underrated because of his poor trophy haul. He was genuinely one of the best strikers on the planet in his pomp. 3 major career threatening injuries, played for the majority of his career in pretty poor teams. He moved to us when we were legitimate title challengers, but poor direction from the boardroom and a slew of poor managers in the chair meant his best years weren't as productive as they could have been. 

 

I think while Harry Kane suffers from being interminably dull off the pitch, nothing on the pitch is particularly exciting either. Even his 30 yarders don't, I dunno, feel(?) thrilling. There's something almost pedestrian in their excellence? He's so professional, so practised that it's not impressive. He never beats a player with something unpredictable like Henry did, he's not got tonnes of pace, he's just a little sharper, a little stronger or a little smarter in the moment. Just like Shearer was.

I think it's the boring predictability of it, I guess similar to Shearer. He's just a goal machine, but you look at Kane's best goals there is some brilliant stuff in there. There is something uninspiring about him.

 

It's funny because his off field persona is so dull, but so was Shearer's it's only after years of being on the telly we've seen some personality from Alan. He was most noted off the pitch for creosoting his fence to celebrate winning the title with Blackburn.

 

I think Kane will break all of Shearer's records if he stays in the PL for the rest of his career and he will be considered a legend of the game, but I can't see him hosting MotD in the future.

 

 

[Nalis]

The Do they mean Kane thread

[foxinsox]

6 hours ago, Captain... said:

I think it's the boring predictability of it, I guess similar to Shearer. He's just a goal machine, but you look at Kane's best goals there is some brilliant stuff in there. There is something uninspiring about him.

 

It's funny because his off field persona is so dull, but so was Shearer's it's only after years of being on the telly we've seen some personality from Alan. He was most noted off the pitch for creosoting his fence to celebrate winning the title with Blackburn.

 

I think Kane will break all of Shearer's records if he stays in the PL for the rest of his career and he will be considered a legend of the game, but I can't see him hosting MotD in the future.

 

 

When was the last "boringly predictable goalscorer" for Leicester City? I wouldn't count Vardy, as he is neither boring nor predictable. 

 

Do we have to go back to Arthur Rowley? Oh, we could do with him now!

 

 

[Jobyfox]

2 hours ago, Nalis said:

The Do they mean Kane thread

 

[Aus Fox]

11 hours ago, Captain... said:

He's very similar to Shearer in that regard, apart from the PL with Blackburn Shearer won nothing but individual honours. For one of the best strikers of all time that's a poor haul, but people still remember him as an all time PL and England legend. Our own Gary Lineker won very little of note, but still a legend. 

 

Whereas Brian McClair for example has a trophy list to match the best. But who cares.

 

 

 

To be fair Lineker won a league title with us, second division, but still a league title. The FA Cup with Spurs and a couple of trophies in Spain, including the UEFA Cup with Barcelona.

[Captain...]

35 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

To be fair Lineker won a league title with us, second division, but still a league title. The FA Cup with Spurs and a couple of trophies in Spain, including the UEFA Cup with Barcelona.

Oh yeah, it's more than a lot of players and obviously more than Kane, but despite his abilities as goal scorer it's a poor haul, Heskey has won more than him for example, but it doesn't diminish his ability as a footballer and the regard with which he is held.

 

Minor point, it was the cup winners cup, but still a respectable trophy.

[Captain...]

2 hours ago, foxinsox said:

When was the last "boringly predictable goalscorer" for Leicester City? I wouldn't count Vardy, as he is neither boring nor predictable. 

 

Do we have to go back to Arthur Rowley? Oh, we could do with him now!

 

 

Nugent was that kind of a player in the championship just a really good goal scorer, not super quick or skilful, but just had that striker's instinct going back further probably Fryatt in league 1. There aren't many that spring to mind over the last 30 years, just prolific goal scorers who weren't target men or speed merchants.

 

Kevin Phillips was that type of player but obviously not so much when he was with us.

[Jaspa]

On 30/03/2023 at 21:11, Jobyfox said:

 

 

Rooney's only World Cup goal was a 3yard tap in to an open net, that was in a group game we lost, while at a Tournament we crashed out of the group stages.

 

At least Kane has performed in big tournaments for England. You can only score against the teams you're drawn to play.

Edited 31 March 2023 by Jaspa
wasn't a header

[Wymsey]

As they're still official games, regarding Kane, surely they all count etc.?

[CosbehFox]

It’s an interesting debate if properly considered. Rooney’s record is similar to Kane with opposition. 
 

I recommend anyone to take a look at Bobby Charlton’s. It actually follows a pattern of being boosted by goals v Luxembourg, Northern Ireland, Wales, USA and Mexico. There’s also a hat trick v Switzerland too 

[Samilktray]

Kane has never lit up an international tournament like Rooney did Euro 2004. Fair enough Kane has a World Cup golden boot but Rooney was absolutely electric in that tournament 

[Foxdiamond]

24 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

It’s an interesting debate if properly considered. Rooney’s record is similar to Kane with opposition. 
 

I recommend anyone to take a look at Bobby Charlton’s. It actually follows a pattern of being boosted by goals v Luxembourg, Northern Ireland, Wales, USA and Mexico. There’s also a hat trick v Switzerland too 

Bobby also did score in vital WC games and of course what sways everything is he won the damn thing plus European Cup scoring in final plus FA cup and league title

[Foxdiamond]

On 30/03/2023 at 20:35, foxinsox said:

When was the last "boringly predictable goalscorer" for Leicester City? I wouldn't count Vardy, as he is neither boring nor predictable. 

 

Do we have to go back to Arthur Rowley? Oh, we could do with him now!

 

 

Lineker's goal ratio with us was very good. If he had stayed longer perhaps he might have been seen as boringly predictable by fans of other clubs

[CosbehFox]

6 minutes ago, Foxdiamond said:

Bobby also did score in vital WC games and of course what sways everything is he won the damn thing plus European Cup scoring in final plus FA cup and league title

I think he’s the greatest English player of all time. Just making an over-riding point that most international goalscoring records are in somewhere boosted by poor opposition. 

[Craig]

This day in age it's probably less about who has been scored against, but more the fact that the striker has been considered the best in the business for his country for so long to be able to play and score the amount he has - and even then that's in less time than Rooney vs similar opposition.

 

Of course, I'd argue there was a time when Vardy was more of a threat, leaves a greater legacy than Kane currently, and should have been preferred or partnered with, but that ship has sailed and Kane is clear of anyone now and will probably be so for some time still. 

 

Kane gets mocked for not scoring 'important' goals in 'important' games, but he's got a WC golden boot and scored the winning goal (albeit after a missed pen) in a Euros semi and in a key game vs Germany in the last 16. 

 

Let's not forget how Southgate sets up against sides that pose any sort of threat. What was he supposed to do in the final vs Italy? Rooney/Vardy wouldn't and couldn't have done anything either. 

 

In the penalty shootout he was only one of two (the other being Maguire) that didn't fold.

 

I can't stand the guy for Spurs, but for England I'm not sure what more we can expect. We are lucky to have him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 March 2023 by Craig

[Foxdiamond]

29 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I think he’s the greatest English player of all time. Just making an over-riding point that most international goalscoring records are in somewhere boosted by poor opposition. 

Fair point. I just think that so far Kane has no crowning moment in a final or league season

[Sly]

Kane is decent but I don’t think people will look back in 59 years and think he’s amongst the greatest players ever. 
 

He’s been consistent and fairly injury free. 

 

You’d argue Owen, Beckham, Lampard, Scholes, Rooney, Terry, Vardy and Shearer have had more memorable careers and moments. 

I mean Vardy and Mahrez have finished higher in a Ballon d’Or ranking than Kane ever has. The best Kane has ever done is 10th in 2018.
 

I’d also forgotten Theodoros Zagorakis finished 5th in the Ballon d’Or in 2004. I’d forgotten how legendary he was for us. Especially in goals. 

Obviously Kante has featured a few times as well. 

 

 

 

 

[pmcla26]

7 minutes ago, Sly said:

Kane is decent but I don’t think people will look back in 59 years and think he’s amongst the greatest players ever. 

I think that all depends on what he does between now and when he retires. If he leaves Spurs, goes to say, Manchester United, for example, breaks the Premier League goal scoring record, wins a Premier League title, and wins the Euros with England (all of which are quite possible for him to do) then he’d definitely be remembered as one of the greatest ever. 
 

Obviously that is all ‘if’s’, but I could see all of that possibly happening. Even if just one or two out of those 3 happen, then he’ll be remembered in that sort of regard. 

Edited 31 March 2023 by Pete52

[skinnydipper]

Future use of the “K” word in this thread merits a ban 

[The Doctor]

On 29/03/2023 at 15:12, Tommy Fresh said:

Interested to know which were the 8

France, Germany, Scotland.

 

If you want to disagree, well that's a very nations league B mindset that those of us in Nations League A can't grasp.

[Jobyfox]

3 hours ago, Jaspa said:

 

Rooney's only World Cup goal was a 3yard header into an open net, that was in a group game we lost, while at a Tournament we crashed out of the group stages.

 

At least Kane has performed in big tournaments for England. You can only score against the teams you're drawn to play.

To be honest my post was just a bit of a joke. 

 

I'm actually a big Kane fan and think he's a superb player. He's a totally different player to Vardy, but they're similar in a way that people often debate their class. In my view if you can't see the class of Kane and a peek Vardy, then you probably don't know too much about football. 

 

The Kane/Spurs thing of never winning anything though is still highly amusing. I'm not too worried if that record continues 

[when_you're_smiling]

No idea where to put it. But ITV 4’sThe Big Match rerun says it includes Charlton v Leicester from 1980 in a bit.

 

Edit - Got the year wrong sorry.

Edited 1 April 2023 by when_you're_smiling

[Nalis]

Laughable, the BR PR machine was top tier to have people thinking lile this I'll give him that