Not The Politics Thread.

[StanSP]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

34 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

Yes but the alternative is literal communism and letting the IRA rule Ireland. 

[Jon the Hat]

4 hours ago, StanSP said:

Ahh good to know if the incident is old enough and the person isn't working any more then there shouldn't be an investigation

 

If the allegation were serious then of course an investigation is required, probably a police one, but the allegation was imo not very serious in itself, made to describe a culture prevalent at the time, and I’m not sure who would benefit from the likely vague conclusion any such investigation could possibly result in.  I strongly suspect there are more important complaints which are more deserving of investigation.

[Dunge]

48 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Yes but the alternative is literal communism and letting the IRA rule Ireland. 

Not true. Corbyn’s not in charge any more. 

 

I don’t think this is all going away any time soon though. The mud looks like it’s sticking to me, particularly to Boris himself. I saw someone ask a few pages back what the difference is this time. The difference now is that there aren’t any mitigating circumstances. No pandemic desperation, no attempting to stop Brexit, no exaggeration, just actions standing alone.

 

Personally I think a lot of it’s arrogance, people thinking they’re untouchable because of election victories and poll leads. I don’t believe most Conservative MPs are corrupt. But I think they’re starting to reap what Boris has sown - lack of integrity at the top trickles down, because those who can be seduced that way see that the leader’s office are lacking any moral authority to tell them otherwise.

 

Maybe it won’t turn out this way, but I think this episode is significant. I believe a moderate Labour stands to collect a lot of voters here, and the Tories are facing a difficult decision between arguably their one charismatic choice of leader and the integrity of the whole party.

[Jon the Hat]

21 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Not true. Corbyn’s not in charge any more. 

 

I don’t think this is all going away any time soon though. The mud looks like it’s sticking to me, particularly to Boris himself. I saw someone ask a few pages back what the difference is this time. The difference now is that there aren’t any mitigating circumstances. No pandemic desperation, no attempting to stop Brexit, no exaggeration, just actions standing alone.

 

Personally I think a lot of it’s arrogance, people thinking they’re untouchable because of election victories and poll leads. I don’t believe most Conservative MPs are corrupt. But I think they’re starting to reap what Boris has sown - lack of integrity at the top trickles down, because those who can be seduced that way see that the leader’s office are lacking any moral authority to tell them otherwise.

 

Maybe it won’t turn out this way, but I think this episode is significant. I believe a moderate Labour stands to collect a lot of voters here, and the Tories are facing a difficult decision between arguably their one charismatic choice of leader and the integrity of the whole party.

I’d like to think you are right, and that the Tories can oust Boris and put in place a competent and trustworthy leadership before the next election, but I fear much like Labour, the good MPs seem to be in the minority.

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

Edited 18 November 2021 by Leicester_Loyal

[Sly]

I’m starting to hope at some point, we get a solid, alternative 3rd party option, as the two we have currently are terrible. 

[CosbehFox]

Apparently behind the scenes in the Tories, Boris is losing faith. Stories about PMs queuing outside his office yesterday to have a word 

[StanSP]

8 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

If the allegation were serious then of course an investigation is required, probably a police one, but the allegation was imo not very serious in itself, made to describe a culture prevalent at the time, and I’m not sure who would benefit from the likely vague conclusion any such investigation could possibly result in.  I strongly suspect there are more important complaints which are more deserving of investigation.

Because an allegation like this, whilst not serious, can also bring about confidence for others to report perhaps something more serious. I don't believe for one second you're naive to think that just because it may not 'very serious in itself' that a) it's not worth reporting anyway and b) it won't help others. 

 

Also begs the question what's serious enough for you? What's the sexual assault threshold? 

 

I don't like blaming the culture for it anyway. Too easy. A cop out. Look at the catalyst for the Rafiq Yorkshire incident(s). It was the culture back then that instigated the behaviour he had to endure. Might have started out 'not very serious'. 'it was the culture at the time'. That's how people got away with it. 

 

[Facecloth]

11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Because an allegation like this, whilst not serious, can also bring about confidence for others to report perhaps something more serious. I don't believe for one second you're naive to think that just because it may not 'very serious in itself' that a) it's not worth reporting anyway and b) it won't help others. 

 

Also begs the question what's serious enough for you? What's the sexual assault threshold? 

 

I don't like blaming the culture for it anyway. Too easy. A cop out. Look at the catalyst for the Rafiq Yorkshire incident(s). It was the culture back then that instigated the behaviour he had to endure. Might have started out 'not very serious'. 'it was the culture at the time'. That's how people got away with it. 

 

I do 

[Jon the Hat]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Because an allegation like this, whilst not serious, can also bring about confidence for others to report perhaps something more serious. I don't believe for one second you're naive to think that just because it may not 'very serious in itself' that a) it's not worth reporting anyway and b) it won't help others. 

 

Also begs the question what's serious enough for you? What's the sexual assault threshold? 

 

I don't like blaming the culture for it anyway. Too easy. A cop out. Look at the catalyst for the Rafiq Yorkshire incident(s). It was the culture back then that instigated the behaviour he had to endure. Might have started out 'not very serious'. 'it was the culture at the time'. That's how people got away with it. 

 

I think it is important, and I am glad that she raised it in the forum she did, and I would have no issue with an investigation had she raised a complaint to the party, but she hasn't as far as I am aware, and hence I don't see the point in them starting an investigation.  They would be better investigating the dodgy dealings going on at the moment imo.

[urban.spaceman]

14 hours ago, StanSP said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lord Bethell also used his personal email for government business and deleted texts and WhatsApp messages. 

[jgtuk]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Lord Bethell also used his personal email for government business and deleted texts and WhatsApp messages. 

Hold on, is this the absolute cvnts of our time thread?

[FoxyPV]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Apparently behind the scenes in the Tories, Boris is losing faith. Stories about PMs queuing outside his office yesterday to have a word 

Because he's threatening their lucrative side deals.....

[HighPeakFox]

5 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Apparently behind the scenes in the Tories, Boris is losing faith. Stories about PMs queuing outside his office yesterday to have a word 

Just how many PMs do we actually have? Too many chiefs, not enough Indians...? 

[NasPb]

13 hours ago, Dunge said:

Not true. Corbyn’s not in charge any more. 

 

I don’t think this is all going away any time soon though. The mud looks like it’s sticking to me, particularly to Boris himself. I saw someone ask a few pages back what the difference is this time. The difference now is that there aren’t any mitigating circumstances. No pandemic desperation, no attempting to stop Brexit, no exaggeration, just actions standing alone.

 

Personally I think a lot of it’s arrogance, people thinking they’re untouchable because of election victories and poll leads. I don’t believe most Conservative MPs are corrupt. But I think they’re starting to reap what Boris has sown - lack of integrity at the top trickles down, because those who can be seduced that way see that the leader’s office are lacking any moral authority to tell them otherwise.

 

Maybe it won’t turn out this way, but I think this episode is significant. I believe a moderate Labour stands to collect a lot of voters here, and the Tories are facing a difficult decision between arguably their one charismatic choice of leader and the integrity of the whole party.

Corbyn a communist 😂

[bovril]

Just now, NasPb said:

Corbyn a communist 😂

I mean he is. 

[jgtuk]

32 minutes ago, bovril said:

I mean he is. 

He definitely isn't 😂

[StanSP]

What's wrong with the word 'dodgy'?! 

 

Far worse comments and language used in the past yet this gets picked at?? 

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

6 minutes ago, StanSP said:

What's wrong with the word 'dodgy'?! 

 

Far worse comments and language used in the past yet this gets picked at?? 

 

 

Nothing wrong with it at all, seems like the lady in the chair would be happier if we talked around blatant Tory corruption using newspeak to make it not sound so bad, pretty dodgy if you ask me.

[SecretPro]

So many loud voices in this thread usually. Very quiet in here.

[Dunge]

I think the problem is that it’s potentially slander. I have sympathy with her viewpoint, but she mentions individuals as being “dodgy”. I’m not saying that isn’t how the whole government is coming across as a result of what’s happened, and that’s precisely the problem and why Boris is deservedly getting it. But saying dodgy in that context against a specific individual (Jacob Rees-Mogg) is more of a direct accusation, given that it’s implicit of accusing him directly of corruption.

 

So I think the chair’s right on this, although if Sultana was to say it outside, say on Question Time, there wouldn’t be quite the same issue. In the Houses, like in a courtroom, you have to be very careful with your language.

[StanSP]

Just seems to me like the Deputy Speaker let the power go to her head a little. 

[Mike Oxlong]

 

 

[Bellend Sebastian]

6 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

 

I expect that Paul Golding of Britain First had just watched that when he made that bizarre pledge to hunt down the protesters that hassled Rees Mogg when he appeared at that university or wherever it was.

 

It's a mystery to me why anyone looks at that and thinks that having people like this in charge is in any way in their interests