Not The Politics Thread.

[ClaphamFox]

11 hours ago, jgtuk said:

Starmer has divided the party more than ever, over 150,000 party members ripping up their cards in 18 months. That’s approximately 14%. 
I’ve even heard rumours of potential bankruptcy. 
As to policies, I genuinely don’t know what the current Labour Party or Starmers are, the man is a mess, this reshuffle is a mess and I don’t know if any worthwhile opposition exists anymore. 
I predict a change in leadership at some point in the new year.

The problem is, there isn't an obvious replacement who inspires confidence they could do better than Starmer. The job of Labour leader is a much harder one than the Tory leader's job - it involves trying to unite bitterly opposed factions who basically loathe each other. It's an onerous task that very few people could manage.

[blabyboy]

26 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Labour also announced eight policies at their conference. Must say I find this desire for them to basically have a manifesto out already for the next election a bit weird. Just gives the Tories more time to try and find an alternative the public will buy into.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-party-conference-2021-announcements-policy-climate-crime-education-1222508

 

As for Labour members, the problem with Labour members (and I say this as a Labour member) is that they think they're more important than Labour voters.

The narrative for the LP is that they're reactionary and not providing vision - "Captain Hindsight" tag on KS really landed with the public. I would guess that these are the attempt to put the LP on a front foot and show that vision. If they've done their homework then they should be quite happy to take on the Tories in each of these areas and it gives the opportunity to concentrate their dwindling resources on these specific topics so they should be building on their research and announcements each time.

 

I think you're bang on about the LP members... one thing you can say about the Tories is that at least get behind their leader right up until the point they don't. Labour seem to start divided and maintain that, thus wasting lots of time.

[StanSP]

 

 

 

 

[What the Fuchs?]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/imprisoned-51-weeks-protesting-britain-police-state
 

As well as being the worst in modern history this government is also the most dangerous. They really have a thing for seeking to dismantle checks and balances and the rights of UK citizens. I thought right wing parties were supposed to support liberty, when in fact their attacks on democracy are downright fascist - cue some more Kill the Bill protests which the right wing tabloids will spin to allow Patel to justify more authoritarian power grabs. So corruption and abuse of public office is fine, but the ability to protest effectively and hold the government to account is not apparently. Scary times.

Edited 1 December 2021 by What the Fuchs?

[Jon the Hat]

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1465927734069280768?s=20

Unbelievable 

Edited 1 December 2021 by Jon the Hat

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1465927734069280768?s=20

Unbelievable 

 

Seriously?

 

What is so unbelievable about yet another example of Tory corruption?

[String fellow]

If you own 100% of a company, you're hardly likely to charge yourself high interest rates on any loans from that company. JR-M then paid interest on the loan and paid tax in line with HMRC requirements. Furthermore, the Commons register only requires information on MPs' incomes, not loans. Clearly then, the he's yet another example of Tory sleaze. Er, but a just minute, but what has he actually done wrong? Isn't his real crime being well off, in the eyes of the left.

Edited 1 December 2021 by String fellow

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, String fellow said:

If you own 100% of a company, you're hardly likely to charge yourself high interest rates on any loans from that company. JR-M then paid interest on the loan and paid tax in line with HMRC requirements. Furthermore, the Commons register only requires information on MPs' incomes, not loans. Clearly then, the he's yet another example of Tory sleaze. Er, but a just minute, but what has he actually done wrong? Isn't his real crime being well off, in the eyes of the left.

I guess so 

but he is well off so why is he taking big loans from his business ?  Why not just pay himself a dividend and then the tax liability is straightforward.  I’m not an accountant but I wonder if taking loans is a way of reducing your tax burden 

[blabyboy]

4 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

https://twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1465927734069280768?s=20

Unbelievable 

Good work, but to make it stick you either need the little bird to come into the light, or we need the un-redacted contract, otherwise Hancock can carry on with the facade quite legitimately under House rules and what he claims to know.....  :/

 

don't suppose we have any CCTV of him meeting his mate in the office kicking around anywhere?  

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, blabyboy said:

Good work, but to make it stick you either need the little bird to come into the light, or we need the un-redacted contract, otherwise Hancock can carry on with the facade quite legitimately under House rules and what he claims to know.....  :/

 

don't suppose we have any CCTV of him meeting his mate in the office kicking around anywhere?  

If you follow the twitter thread he has the unredacted contract, but as you say the shamelessness of this govt seems to mean being found out is not longer enough.

Edited 2 December 2021 by Jon the Hat

[Jon the Hat]

8 hours ago, st albans fox said:

I guess so 

but he is well off so why is he taking big loans from his business ?  Why not just pay himself a dividend and then the tax liability is straightforward.  I’m not an accountant but I wonder if taking loans is a way of reducing your tax burden 

Directors loans are pretty well covered by HMRC, generally speaking your company pays corporation tax on the loan until it is paid back, so one way or another they take their tax cut.

[st albans fox]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Directors loans are pretty well covered by HMRC, generally speaking your company pays corporation tax on the loan until it is paid back, so one way or another they take their tax cut.

CT is only around 20% 

 

[Jon the Hat]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

CT is only around 20% 

 

There is a 35% rate applicable in this case.  I believe you can also be taxed on the loan as a benefit in kind, or at least on the interest if it is below market rate.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

There is a 35% rate applicable in this case.  I believe you can also be taxed on the loan as a benefit in kind, or at least on the interest if it is below market rate.

Thanks 

 

I’m sure he will find a way around all these things as most very wealthy people seem to 

 

 

[SecretPro]

No polls being posted today? How strange.

[urban.spaceman]

6 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

No polls being posted today? How strange.

Here u go

 

[Facecloth]

37 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

No polls being posted today? How strange.

Since the polls closed up and Labour have either lead or been a point behind, our resident poll junky has gone quiet.

 

In fact he hasn't posted at all anywhere on the forum since early November, so joking aside, I hope everything is OK.

[ealingfox]

Perhaps it would be better to take the opportunity to stop spamming the thread with them, whoever is in front. They are pointless outside of an election period.

[Voll Blau]

Tory hold in Old Bexley and Sidcup, but with a 10% swing to Labour. Not really sure what you can say about that other than it's probably about what you'd have expected.

 

Think North Shropshire will be more interesting, especially given who the MP standing down is.

[Buce]

25 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Tory hold in Old Bexley and Sidcup, but with a 10% swing to Labour. Not really sure what you can say about that other than it's probably about what you'd have expected.

 

Think North Shropshire will be more interesting, especially given who the MP standing down is.

 

Older, home owning, Brexit voting electorate.

 

The very definition of a safe Tory seat.

[Farrington fox]

On 30/11/2021 at 10:02, ClaphamFox said:

The problem is, there isn't an obvious replacement who inspires confidence they could do better than Starmer. The job of Labour leader is a much harder one than the Tory leader's job - it involves trying to unite bitterly opposed factions who basically loathe each other. It's an onerous task that very few people could manage.

You've hit the nail squarely on the head there. I don't believe they'll ever rid themselves of the far left, and for that reason, however poor the Conservatives are, Labour aren't going to win a GE anytime soon. I mean. Corbyn, Rayner, Burgon, Lammy et al. Is there much difference! 

[Dunge]

Figured I’d seek some opinion on this:

 

I caught a bit of Question Time last night where a Lib Dem MP was faintly criticising then faintly praising what Labour had done in their recent reshuffle. And that brought me to a question that’s lingered around in my mind for a while: What is the difference between Labour and the Lib Dems now? Why would someone vote one over the other policy-wise? I get that you might want to vote for one by way of each party’s strength in a particular seat, but where would a Lib Dem supporter disagree with a Labour supporter, for instance?

 

I’m struggling to separate the two, you see. The Greens, I get. I see what the difference is there. But Labour vs Lib Dem, I’m struggling to separate them. And then I’m minded of seeing how many people don’t like how the left wing vote is split in this country and I find myself asking: Why don’t these two parties just combine?

 

Perhaps I’m looking at it from a centrist perspective, and that the Labour left wouldn’t want anything to do with the Lib Dems.

[SexyGammonFox]

5 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Figured I’d seek some opinion on this:

 

I caught a bit of Question Time last night where a Lib Dem MP was faintly criticising then faintly praising what Labour had done in their recent reshuffle. And that brought me to a question that’s lingered around in my mind for a while: What is the difference between Labour and the Lib Dems now? Why would someone vote one over the other policy-wise? I get that you might want to vote for one by way of each party’s strength in a particular seat, but where would a Lib Dem supporter disagree with a Labour supporter, for instance?

 

I’m struggling to separate the two, you see. The Greens, I get. I see what the difference is there. But Labour vs Lib Dem, I’m struggling to separate them. And then I’m minded of seeing how many people don’t like how the left wing vote is split in this country and I find myself asking: Why don’t these two parties just combine?

 

Perhaps I’m looking at it from a centrist perspective, and that the Labour left wouldn’t want anything to do with the Lib Dems.

There's a huge niche out there for the Lib Dems just begging to be filled but they seem content just to be little Labour. Perhaps they think they can be the cuckoo in the nest but I don't see it myself.

[RoboFox]

The story about the government's lockdown party seems to be gaining traction finally. Another week, another scandal.

 

Smug-king Dowden was doing the rounds this morning piping up with the usual "we followed the rules" rhetoric. The party itself was a breach of the rules, therefore unless you can categorically state there was no party, he - along with the rest of them - are lying.

 

If there's one thing that I'd expect the public to get riled up about, it's this. Most of the population sacrificed time with friends and family over Christmas last year for the greater cause and the rules were largely adhered to stringently. Yet another instance of "do as I say, not as I do", and it's yet another disgrace... And it'll just be forgotten about with no accountability, just like the other hundreds of instances before it.

 

It just leaves me incredibly sad that too many people cannot, or will not see that we as a country deserve so much better than these fvcking cvnts. 

 

Edited 3 December 2021 by RoboFox

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, RoboFox said:

 

It just leaves me incredibly sad that too many people cannot, or will not see that we as a country deserve so much better than these fvcking cvnts. 

 

I'm sure many staunch Tory voters would agree that the current cabinet are a shower of shite.

 

Not sure what anyone can really do about it though between now and the next GE...