Not The Politics Thread.

[Sampson]

15 minutes ago, FerrisBueller said:

If we had a keeper who continuously blasted the ball into his own net, every game, and then stuck the finger up at the crowd, we’d probably give another keeper a go, even if it was Conrad Logan.

But all the other goalkeepers are the same... It's built into the culture of goalkeeping that another goalkeeper will be no better... I think we should just draw a picture of a nob in the goalkeeper position on the team sheet to show our dissatisfaction instead of picking a different keeper. Even though that would mean the current keeper stays in goal anyway...

Edited 8 December 2021 by Sampson

[SecretPro]

4 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

You're preaching to the converted I've voted labour all my life don't think I'll vote in the next election though, however how does Starmer inspire any person on the other side or moderate voters to vote for him? The man has the worst Tory PM since probably Major on his knees and the only thing people can say about him is he can't be worse? The majority of the working class vote get ****ed no matter whos in charge, they won't turn up to the polling station rather than voting for Starmer because "he can't be any worse".

 

Give your head a wobble for accepting this pathetic excuse for an opposition which will be the WHOLE reason why this corrupt, Eton inbred mafia stay in charge for another 4 years when the time comes. 

But I'm not accepting Starmer or this pathetic opposition, I'm simply acknowledging that literally ANY OTHER PERSON is better than Boris and his cabinet of clowns. For now, the opposition doesn't have to be great, it just needs to be a means to get rid of the absolute scum currently running the country. Only the blind, deaf and stupid could possibly think otherwise at this stage. I would literally vote for the turd I've just dropped in the bog if it meant no more Boris.

Edited 8 December 2021 by SecretPro

[Mike Oxlong]

8 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Should be memorable 

 

 

 

Edited 9 December 2021 by Mike Oxlong

[Sampson]

8 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

You're preaching to the converted I've voted labour all my life don't think I'll vote in the next election though, however how does Starmer inspire any person on the other side or moderate voters to vote for him? The man has the worst Tory PM since probably Major on his knees and the only thing people can say about him is he can't be worse? The majority of the working class vote get ****ed no matter whos in charge, they won't turn up to the polling station rather than voting for Starmer because "he can't be any worse".

 

Give your head a wobble for accepting this pathetic excuse for an opposition which will be the WHOLE reason why this corrupt, Eton inbred mafia stay in charge for another 4 years when the time comes. 

If you don't like Starmer then work on that once Labour are in power, especially if you are a self-confessed Labour voter - after all, the Tories got in power with a more moderate leader in Cameron and have shifted rightwards and taken more and more liberties once they had that stronghold. There's no reason once Starmer is in power the party can't change -.getting into power is far harder than staying in power in this country due to the familiarity effect. And once you are in power then you can change. Starmer is just a means to get Labour back in power again.

With the exception of the 70s we tend to have long stints of one party in power in the UK. Especially from Thatcher onwards.

A non-vote is a vote for the Tories. The Tories always do better the lower the voter turnout - it's a classic Tory tactic to get people to stay at home and not vote, because they know the over 70s always will turnout and always will vote for them.

Edited 8 December 2021 by Sampson

[The Horse's Mouth]

5 minutes ago, SecretPro said:

But I'm not accepting Starmer or this pathetic opposition, I'm simply acknowledging that literally ANY OTHER PERSON is better than Boris and his cabinet of clowns. For now, the opposition doesn't have to be great, it just needs to be a means to get rid of the absolute scum currently running the country. 

That's where you're wrong though, this opposition will only result in one thing and that'll be a lower turnout and the Tory base will always be apart of that with the more patriotic they died for the vote bollocks. 

[Mark_w]

2 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

You're preaching to the converted I've voted labour all my life don't think I'll vote in the next election though, however how does Starmer inspire any person on the other side or moderate voters to vote for him? The man has the worst Tory PM since probably Major on his knees and the only thing people can say about him is he can't be worse? The majority of the working class vote get ****ed no matter whos in charge, they won't turn up to the polling station rather than voting for Starmer because "he can't be any worse".

 

Give your head a wobble for accepting this pathetic excuse for an opposition which will be the WHOLE reason why this corrupt, Eton inbred mafia stay in charge for another 4 years when the time comes. 

What has he actually done that badly wrong? The inability to oppose the government has a whole lot to do with Labour doing really poorly in the last election and the shit situation that's left us with in the commons where it's very difficult to stop the government getting anything that's important to them through. Blaming the opposition for the government being corrupt, to the extent that you put people off voting out the corrupt government, is a bit silly really isn't it? He's not the most charismatic, and he isn't working miracles with what 200-ish MPs, but his policies and approach are infinitely better than Boris' and any other Tory government I can remember.

People eating up the story that Labour isn't 'credible' is the reason we continually end up with these Tory governments that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. But anyone willing to acknowledge the problem with the press and with party financing becomes 'unelectable' because the press and the rich make them 'unelectable'.

[The Horse's Mouth]

9 minutes ago, Sampson said:

If you don't like Starmer then work on that once Labour are in power, especially if you are a self-confessed Labour voter - after all, the Tories got in power with a more moderate leader in Cameron and have shifted rightwards and taken more and more liberties once they had that stronghold. There's no reason once Starmer is in power the party can't change -.getting into power is far harder than staying in power in this country due to the familiarity effect. And once you are in power then you can change. Starmer is just a means to get Labour back in power again.

With the exception of the 70s we tend to have long stints of one party in power in the UK. Especially from Thatcher onwards.

A non-vote is a vote for the Tories. The Tories always do better the lower the voter turnout - it's a classic Tory tactic to get people to stay at home and not vote, because they know the over 70s always will turnout and always will vote for them.

Honestly though, I'm at the point now where I'm so disillusioned with the party, cancelled my membership a few months ago and was very active in the last election. But now I'm at the point that I don't want to be apart of the mugs who vote for the pig in the red rossette, I don't want to be a contributing factor in this quite frankly broken political system. Even if Starmer got in, I have no faith that the party would change for the better honestly.

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, Mark_w said:

People eating up the story that Labour isn't 'credible' is the reason we continually end up with these Tory governments that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. But anyone willing to acknowledge the problem with the press and with party financing becomes 'unelectable' because the press and the rich make them 'unelectable'.

Bears so much repeating.

[The Horse's Mouth]

3 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

What has he actually done that badly wrong? The inability to oppose the government has a whole lot to do with Labour doing really poorly in the last election and the shit situation that's left us with in the commons where it's very difficult to stop the government getting anything that's important to them through. Blaming the opposition for the government being corrupt, to the extent that you put people off voting out the corrupt government, is a bit silly really isn't it? He's not the most charismatic, and he isn't working miracles with what 200-ish MPs, but his policies and approach are infinitely better than Boris' and any other Tory government I can remember.

People eating up the story that Labour isn't 'credible' is the reason we continually end up with these Tory governments that don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. But anyone willing to acknowledge the problem with the press and with party financing becomes 'unelectable' because the press and the rich make them 'unelectable'.

Where on earth did I blame the opposition for the government being corrupt? I'm talking in general terms here, for the voter that votes for the Tories consistently or someone who's a floater, what has Starmer done to captivate a voter base, like Corbyn had done with the youth vote? He's alienated a lot of the party supporters and based on the polls he hasn't made much ground on floating voters and the Tory base, despite probably one of the worst years a government's ever faced with constant corruption battles, backseat dealings and he's failed to capitalise on it. Why is it the fact we're talking about how bad this government is, yet we all probably expect the Tories to retain power? It's fine looking at the voters, but what platform has Starmer presented to get that middle ground and the Tory base that Blair managed to capture. This next election is so important and to quite frankly justify the job Starmer has done so far is a joke imo.

 

Selling a person on the idea that he's less worse is probably the worst way you can go into an election campaign, look at Clinton

[SexyGammonFox]

25 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Where on earth did I blame the opposition for the government being corrupt? I'm talking in general terms here, for the voter that votes for the Tories consistently or someone who's a floater, what has Starmer done to captivate a voter base, like Corbyn had done with the youth vote? He's alienated a lot of the party supporters and based on the polls he hasn't made much ground on floating voters and the Tory base, despite probably one of the worst years a government's ever faced with constant corruption battles, backseat dealings and he's failed to capitalise on it. Why is it the fact we're talking about how bad this government is, yet we all probably expect the Tories to retain power? It's fine looking at the voters, but what platform has Starmer presented to get that middle ground and the Tory base that Blair managed to capture. This next election is so important and to quite frankly justify the job Starmer has done so far is a joke imo.

 

Selling a person on the idea that he's less worse is probably the worst way you can go into an election campaign, look at Clinton

As a non-labour voter the thing I like most about Starmer is his persistence in being a thorny, determined, sleeper under Corbyn. Then since being leader, his fairly methodical approach to rooting out the prominent Trots most likely to play the same role to him that he did under Corbyn.

 

I think he wants to be a blander version of Blair, and wisely so - it's their only possible route back to power.

[Jon the Hat]

5 hours ago, SexyGammonFox said:

As a non-labour voter the thing I like most about Starmer is his persistence in being a thorny, determined, sleeper under Corbyn. Then since being leader, his fairly methodical approach to rooting out the prominent Trots most likely to play the same role to him that he did under Corbyn.

 

I think he wants to be a blander version of Blair, and wisely so - it's their only possible route back to power.

I guess Starmer like every other non idiot in the PLP was keeping his head down, but I'm not sure he gets much credit for it.

[Sly]

7 hours ago, kyleolly said:

I don't think Boris can bare much blame for brexit happening it was a done deal he just had to sort out the deal 

It was the stuff he sprouted when he campaigned for it in the first place. 

[Jon the Hat]

On this party thing, very badly handled undoubtedly, but a few bottles of wine and some snacks amongst colleagues who are already working together in close confines (assuming that is likely what it was) is a) not much of a party and b) not going to put anyone at all any more risk than being at work in the first place.  If someone told me a couple of glasses of wine and some snacks I had with the management in the office was my Christmas party I would be a pissed off for sure.

[Sly]

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

On this party thing, very badly handled undoubtedly, but a few bottles of wine and some snacks amongst colleagues who are already working together in close confines (assuming that is likely what it was) is a) not much of a party and b) not going to put anyone at all any more risk than being at work in the first place.  If someone told me a couple of glasses of wine and some snacks I had with the management in the office was my Christmas party I would be a pissed off for sure.

I think it’s been blown massively out of proportion if I’m honest. 
 

Party, or no party, how many other people have held similar jokes within business meetings? 

 

I’ve also seen people criticising him, that were adamant they were having 20 odd people around for Christmas dinner last year. Hypercritical…… somewhat. 
 

I personally don’t think the hysteria about the Christmas Party, is as bad as some of the other car crash situations Boris has overseen. 

 

[Jon the Hat]

2 minutes ago, Sly said:

I think it’s been blown massively out of proportion if I’m honest. 
 

Party, or no party, how many other people have held similar jokes within business meetings? 

 

I’ve also seen people criticising him, that were adamant they were having 20 odd people around for Christmas dinner last year. Hypercritical…… somewhat. 
 

I personally don’t think the hysteria about the Christmas Party, is as bad as some of the other car crash situations Boris has overseen. 

 

I'm sure if they had known a week ago that video was going to leak they would have come out with some details.  Not a party, but some informal drinks among people who were already working together day to day. The desire to deny everything has burnt them again imo.

[Sly]

3 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I'm sure if they had known a week ago that video was going to leak they would have come out with some details.  Not a party, but some informal drinks among people who were already working together day to day. The desire to deny everything has burnt them again imo.

Oh, the way the aftermath has been handled is without doubt, a complete and utter clusterf….

Edited 9 December 2021 by Sly

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

I'm sure if they had known a week ago that video was going to leak they would have come out with some details.  Not a party, but some informal drinks among people who were already working together day to day. The desire to deny everything has burnt them again imo.

But again, this type of ‘expose’ is food and drink now, it’s not actually anything, it just gets spun into news, an unpleasant distraction from other different unpleasant news.

[Sly]

28 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

But again, this type of ‘expose’ is food and drink now, it’s not actually anything, it just gets spun into news, an unpleasant distraction from other different unpleasant news.

Who was it that stated “today is a day, to bury bad news”, when 9/11 happened? 
 

The press all have their own allegiances, to which they put their own spin on a situation and broadcast it to the masses. They’re basically fishing constantly and sometimes they’ll get a bite and it’ll blow up.
 

Social media has only added to this issue, as everyone has now been given a platform to spout what they want basically. Then every Karen will get offended by it, until we have a world wind of hate.

 

Starmer may actually be a decent bloke, I wouldn’t know as I find him wooden and for me, some of the policies that Labour discuss I’m not aligned to. I’ve a good friend who is a fanatic Labour Party supporter, however he was a Corbyn supporter and he feels they have infighting within the party with Kier banning opposing views. This is hurting their general overall support within themselves from what I can tell. 

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

On this party thing, very badly handled undoubtedly, but a few bottles of wine and some snacks amongst colleagues who are already working together in close confines (assuming that is likely what it was) is a) not much of a party and b) not going to put anyone at all any more risk than being at work in the first place.  If someone told me a couple of glasses of wine and some snacks I had with the management in the office was my Christmas party I would be a pissed off for sure.

 

1 hour ago, Sly said:

I think it’s been blown massively out of proportion if I’m honest. 
 

Party, or no party, how many other people have held similar jokes within business meetings? 

 

I’ve also seen people criticising him, that were adamant they were having 20 odd people around for Christmas dinner last year. Hypercritical…… somewhat. 
 

I personally don’t think the hysteria about the Christmas Party, is as bad as some of the other car crash situations Boris has overseen. 

 

Therein lies the issue, again though. 

 

A day after they're telling people to NOT have Xmas work parties, they go and have one?! 

 

What happened to leading by example? Something they regularly fail to do. Look at how many ministers have broken rules and lost their jobs because of it throughout the pandemic. 

 

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THEM!! Someone earlier said Tories keep getting voted in because Labour don't provide credible opposition. But it's also because of the things you say above - 'oh it's not that bad'... 'not much of a party'... 

 

You have people rearranging weddings, only allowed a few people at family events such as weddings, funerals, wakes, christenings. And these lot are living it up at Downing St just days after considering, and implementing, strict and stringent rules! It's the principle of them doing what they've told people not to! That's worse than the hypocrisy you state. 

 

I get the hypocrisy thing anyway because people did have parties, but some also got whacked with £10k fines!! Some got punished! Where's the punishment for the rule makers?! Why do they get off lightly? 'do as I say, not as I do'. Couldn't ring truer if they tried. It's pathetic and embarrassing that A) it happens, B) they get away with it so regularly and C) people brush it off lightly as if it doesn't actually matter. 

[Tommy Fresh]

8 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

Therein lies the issue, again though. 

 

A day after they're telling people to NOT have Xmas work parties, they go and have one?! 

 

What happened to leading by example? Something they regularly fail to do. Look at how many ministers have broken rules and lost their jobs because of it throughout the pandemic. 

 

STOP MAKING EXCUSES FOR THEM!! Someone earlier said Tories keep getting voted in because Labour don't provide credible opposition. But it's also because of the things you say above - 'oh it's not that bad'... 'not much of a party'... 

 

You have people rearranging weddings, only allowed a few people at family events such as weddings, funerals, wakes, christenings. And these lot are living it up at Downing St just days after considering, and implementing, strict and stringent rules! It's the principle of them doing what they've told people not to! That's worse than the hypocrisy you state. 

 

I get the hypocrisy thing anyway because people did have parties, but some also got whacked with £10k fines!! Some got punished! Where's the punishment for the rule makers?! Why do they get off lightly? 'do as I say, not as I do'. Couldn't ring truer if they tried. It's pathetic and embarrassing that A) it happens, B) they get away with it so regularly and C) people brush it off lightly as if it doesn't actually matter. 

Coupled with the Rees-Mogg video it's baffling people still try and put forward some kind of excuse for it really. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Coupled with the Rees-Mogg video it's baffling people still try and put forward some kind of excuse for it really. 

They have to try and rationalise their appalling voting choice somehow.

[ozleicester]

What amazes me is the comment of... "they are all the same". Like in Oz you have had (effectively) tories in power for 10 years... you have no idea what the other lot are like because they havent had the chance to show you... all you know of them is the misinformation spread by tory apologists in the media and lies from the corrupt tories themselves.

The conservatives in the UK, US and Australia have been a joke for 10 years and greedy little bigots keep voting them in

[HighPeakFox]

5 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

What amazes me is the comment of... "they are all the same". Like in Oz you have had (effectively) tories in power for 10 years... you have no idea what the other lot are like because they havent had the chance to show you... all you know of them is the misinformation spread by tory apologists in the media and lies from the corrupt tories themselves.

The conservatives in the UK, US and Australia have been a joke for 10 years and greedy little bigots keep voting them in

Maybe in some cases. I'd say it's as much down to ignorance and conditioning - for some reason people fall for the idea that the Tories/right are somehow more patriotic.

[NasPb]

Remember mr boris was voted in on the promise of being safer than a man that simply wanted expansionist economic policies. And i can guarantee you lot he'll get elected again. Starmer is as weak as one could imagine. He has no backbone. He should have torn the Tories up months ago. 

[Tommy Fresh]

 

Edited 9 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh