Not The Politics Thread.

[ealingfox]

6 minutes ago, NasPb said:

Remember mr boris was voted in on the promise of being safer than a man that simply wanted expansionist economic policies. And i can guarantee you lot he'll get elected again. Starmer is as weak as one could imagine. He has no backbone. He should have torn the Tories up months ago. 

 

What does this even mean? What exactly do people think he should have done? 

[Greg2607]

I don't understand how people don't see starmer as a clear alternative.  He has had an enviable career.  A track record of defending human rights (literally) he has had promotions Into the very top jobs in the legal sector and then risen to the top of the Labour party. 

 

He is about the most statesmanlike MP you could wish for with a strong moral compass. 

 

But because he wouldn't be very funny on have I got news for you, people think he's rubbish. 

 

Our current PM, Hid in a fridge in am election campaign and used to right articles for a newspaper. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

How are all these Government ministers and MPs just refusing to come onto radio shows/tv shows and getting away with it? It's ****ing mental.

[Voll Blau]

2 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

How are all these Government ministers and MPs just refusing to come onto radio shows/tv shows and getting away with it? It's ****ing mental.

This tactic shouldn't surprise anyone given the way the Tories behaved in the run-up to the 2019 election. This is just a continuation of that.

[Dunge]

I’m not following what the polls have been doing recently, but the last few weeks have been a big swing toward Labour in my mind. Not just for what the Conservatives themselves have been doing, but for how Labour look as an alternative. I think Starmer’s done a very good job of pushing down the lunatics: he’s upsetting all the right people while promoting the likes of Yvette Cooper and the improving David Lammy. They’re looking like a proper party of government - not an inspirational one maybe, but one that looks like it should be solid, dependable and take the right things seriously. The kind that will let you get on with living your life while they administrate appropriately.

 

For the Conservatives, meanwhile - I think Boris has to go. I would listen to what a Rishi Sunak-led Conservative party had to say with interest, although far from guaranteed support. But what I see now is a party getting infested with rot that has come from the top, similar to Labour under Corbyn, just a different sort of rot. The quicker they do this, the better for the party.

[st albans fox]

23 minutes ago, Greg2607 said:

I don't understand how people don't see starmer as a clear alternative.  He has had an enviable career.  A track record of defending human rights (literally) he has had promotions Into the very top jobs in the legal sector and then risen to the top of the Labour party. 

 

He is about the most statesmanlike MP you could wish for with a strong moral compass. 

 

But because he wouldn't be very funny on have I got news for you, people think he's rubbish. 

 

Our current PM, Hid in a fridge in am election campaign and used to right articles for a newspaper. 

He’s an arsenal supporter…..

[CosbehFox]

I think exactly what the Uk needs now is a boring fecker as PM who knows the law and courts system inside out 

[Tommy Fresh]

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m not following what the polls have been doing recently, but the last few weeks have been a big swing toward Labour in my mind. Not just for what the Conservatives themselves have been doing, but for how Labour look as an alternative. I think Starmer’s done a very good job of pushing down the lunatics: he’s upsetting all the right people while promoting the likes of Yvette Cooper and the improving David Lammy. They’re looking like a proper party of government - not an inspirational one maybe, but one that looks like it should be solid, dependable and take the right things seriously. The kind that will let you get on with living your life while they administrate appropriately.

 

For the Conservatives, meanwhile - I think Boris has to go. I would listen to what a Rishi Sunak-led Conservative party had to say with interest, although far from guaranteed support. But what I see now is a party getting infested with rot that has come from the top, similar to Labour under Corbyn, just a different sort of rot. The quicker they do this, the better for the party.

Come the next General Election if Sunak is in charge Labour will be in trouble. Not because of any policies he may put forward but how many people will just remember him being the face of furlough

[Farrington fox]

The 'quad' Johnson, Sunak, Javid and Barclay control the cabinet. What those 4 agree on, usually goes.  

[Sampson]

1 hour ago, NasPb said:

Remember mr boris was voted in on the promise of being safer than a man that simply wanted expansionist economic policies. And i can guarantee you lot he'll get elected again. Starmer is as weak as one could imagine. He has no backbone. He should have torn the Tories up months ago. 

I can't find them now but there was a yougov poll recently showing that Starmer was way ahead of any new opposition leader in recent times (with the exception of Blair who came in when Labour were already way leading the polls after John Smith) at this stage of their election leader in terms of both personal popularity and party popularity. He was even ahead of Cameron who was the one (regardless of your personal opinion of him) who managed to shift from a long stint of Labour rule to a long stint of Tory rule.

It's 2 years before an election, it would be stupid to start pushing policy for the government and press to tear apart at this stage. Almost every opposition leader is "I don't know what they stand for" at this stage. I mean, you saw in 2017 what a huge swing Corbyn got once the actual electioneering started and quite a few people warmed to him.

It's just a Tory tactic - they know they're close to hitting rock bottom so are trying to muddy the waters by putting out the message of "there is no alternative" "what does the alternative even stand for?" and I bet most of the people parroting that have never even listened to PMQs nor heard Starmer given a speech nor checked his voting record - and by the very nature of the political system, the opposition leader does not get much airtime - I bet the majority couldn't even tell you who the Shadow Chancellor is because they get barely any airtime compared to Sunak either, but it's just been drilled into them that he's no alternative or they don't know what he stands for when they've never even tried to look into it.

[lcfc cowboys]

48 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

This tactic shouldn't surprise anyone given the way the Tories behaved in the run-up to the 2019 election. This is just a continuation of that.

Who gives a **** get a ****ing life and everyone else still bleeding on about it  there are more important things going on than a party that happened last year

[foxes1988]

12 hours ago, Sly said:

I think I’ve said before, I’ve voted Conservative all my life but I can no longer support Boris. 
 

He’s a loose cannon and not the right person to lead our country. I also can’t relate to Labour in the slightest, so I can’t vote for them. 

 

We need a 3rd alternate party, that is relatable, semi trustworthy (or at least attempting to appear so) but not as eccentric and outright chaotic. They’re a PR teams worst nightmare at the moment. 
 

 

I think this is what most people who say 'Tories have been terrible but what's the alternative' actually mean.  They have no or very little intention of voting Labour regardless of who the leader is and are just right leaning in general.  The 'no alternative' is just an excuse for voting Tory again.  Really what they want is another right wing party to vote for.  Or at least they think they want that but if there was neither right wing party would get into power as often as Labour or a left leaning coalition would.

 

Most people that complain about the voting system in this country didn't even bother to vote in the AV referendum back in 2011 (whether they agree with AV or not) so I always take the moaning about it with a pinch of salt.

 

10 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

You're preaching to the converted I've voted labour all my life don't think I'll vote in the next election though, however how does Starmer inspire any person on the other side or moderate voters to vote for him? The man has the worst Tory PM since probably Major on his knees and the only thing people can say about him is he can't be worse? The majority of the working class vote get ****ed no matter whos in charge, they won't turn up to the polling station rather than voting for Starmer because "he can't be any worse".

 

Give your head a wobble for accepting this pathetic excuse for an opposition which will be the WHOLE reason why this corrupt, Eton inbred mafia stay in charge for another 4 years when the time comes. 

What exactly have they done that's so bad and what exactly should they have done differently?

[Voll Blau]

4 minutes ago, lcfc cowboys said:

Who gives a **** get a ****ing life and everyone else still bleeding on about it  there are more important things going on than a party that happened last year

As I said on another thread, I basically watched my grandma die through a screen last year while these bastards did whatever they liked. So I won't take lectures from you or anyone else on how to think or feel about the fact the people who made the rules that meant that happened were literally laughing at us all while they partied on.

 

In short, go fvck yourself.

Edited 9 December 2021 by Voll Blau

[StanSP]

7 minutes ago, lcfc cowboys said:

Who gives a **** get a ****ing life and everyone else still bleeding on about it  there are more important things going on than a party that happened last year

You're part of the problem right now. 

[st albans fox]

Looks like another downing st party to wet the baby’s head …..

[SecretPro]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Looks like another downing st party to wet the baby’s head …..

Was probably not due to give birth for another 3 months but they've pulled it out early as a distraction tactic.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/conservative-party-fined-nearly-18-000-for-donation-towards-boris-johnsons-downing-street-flat-refurbishment-12490600

[RoboFox]

19 minutes ago, lcfc cowboys said:

Who gives a **** get a ****ing life and everyone else still bleeding on about it  there are more important things going on than a party that happened last year

And what would you rather we discuss then, genius? Because up until your contribution we'd had a pretty good run of well thought out, balanced and intelligent posts. 

 

Care to offer up any more pressing political discussion points for, y'know... the politics thread? 

 

I rather suspect not.

[Dunge]

27 minutes ago, lcfc cowboys said:

Who gives a **** get a ****ing life and everyone else still bleeding on about it  there are more important things going on than a party that happened last year

There is a partial point here that we don’t want people to use it as an excuse to ignore new restrictions.

But as a measure of the people involved and the leader who absolutely, definitely did not know about an illegal party happening in his own house while the rest of the population was called on to make sacrifices, I think people have the right to judge accordingly.

[Dunge]

7 minutes ago, RoboFox said:

And what would you rather we discuss then, genius? Because up until your contribution we'd had a pretty good run of well thought out, balanced and intelligent posts. 

 

Care to offer up any more pressing political discussion points for, y'know... the politics thread? 

 

I rather suspect not.

To be fair, this is very clearly Not the politics thread. 

[SexyGammonFox]

24 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Looks like another downing st party to wet the baby’s head …..

He managed to squeeze quite a bit into yesterday then. Not a day I suspect he will forget in a hurry. 

 

Very ingenuous attempt at lobbing a dead cat on the table to boot. Kudos.

[Manini]

Works Christmas party now cancelled tomorrow given the announcements yesterday.  I dread to think how much money the company have wasted there. There’s irony here I think. 

Edited 9 December 2021 by Manini

[Footballwipe]

This country desperately needs another Blair-type* figure. Someone who can sweep away the old guard who have been in charge for nearly two decades, someone who can offer poorer communities hope, who can sweep away the "old Labour" stereotypes that linger about "communism, unions and socialism" that Corbyn and his cult bought back.

 

Unfortunately that's just not gonna happen. Labour are 55 seats down in Scotland for start, meaning to win those seats back the swing across the rest of the country would need to be so monumental, or the SNP would need to be swept aside in a blaze of populism for the Labour leader. Where is that coming from? It needs to be here by the next election.

 

We're also in what seems to be a far more cynical era in politics. It's so easy to stick to your guns, no matter. It's refreshing to see people in this thread say "I voted tory but no more" based on what's gone on. Across the country people have been affected by the pandemic, Brexit (whatever your views some people have has negative effects), but will it be enough? By-elections that'll happen in the coming years will give us an indication, but it needs Blair on crack to defeat this lot, especially with the Scotland disadvantage.

 

Not only do the Government have nearly three years to ride this wave, they also have absolutely no shame and precedent. Barnard Castle was a huge scandal, and it's barely dented them in the polls 18 months down the line. Even if it does for the next few months, so what? There's plenty of soundbites, mudslinging, whataboutery and shithousing to do before the next election, no matter who the leader is. Social media helps to embed people's prejudices, their views. We're in a society that engages on the headline only, on what reinforces your view, or that whatever you read slightly critical of your political allegiance is just plain biased.

 

People go on about "Yeah but what are Labour?" and honestly I probably couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but to think that they're not even the slightest bit of a better alternative to what we've seen from this Government either shows a level of Stockholm Syndrome, genuine hatred of Labour generally or plain ignorance. One other thing, this Government has been in majority coalition or plain old running this country solo for 11 years now. It'll be 14 years when the next election comes around.

 

This country is not objectively in a better state than it was in 2010, Labour should be blazing ahead of them in the polls, and I think there's a mixture of the party being dragged back four decades by Corbyn and lacklustre populism for Starmer (which could change in time), but something needs to change. I think it's downright dangerous for Governments of any persuasion to be sitting so comfortably in power for such a long time when the country hasn't inextricably improved for the better. They get complacent, they start taking the piss with no consequence. At the minute is there anyone ready to come in and sweep this lot away, or are we heading for 20 years of Tory rule?

 

*I said Blair-type, don't want all the Iraq war crazies to come in saying I want Blair again.

[Tommy Fresh]

Just seen a clip of James O'Brien, didn't realise there were numerous 'parties' now being reported from after that November lockdown through until the main one being talked about.

Edited 9 December 2021 by Tommy Fresh

[SecretPro]

3 minutes ago, Footballwipe said:

This country desperately needs another Blair-type* figure. Someone who can sweep away the old guard who have been in charge for nearly two decades, someone who can offer poorer communities hope, who can sweep away the "old Labour" stereotypes that linger about "communism, unions and socialism" that Corbyn and his cult bought back.

 

Unfortunately that's just not gonna happen. Labour are 55 seats down in Scotland for start, meaning to win those seats back the swing across the rest of the country would need to be so monumental, or the SNP would need to be swept aside in a blaze of populism for the Labour leader. Where is that coming from? It needs to be here by the next election.

 

We're also in what seems to be a far more cynical era in politics. It's so easy to stick to your guns, no matter. It's refreshing to see people in this thread say "I voted tory but no more" based on what's gone on. Across the country people have been affected by the pandemic, Brexit (whatever your views some people have has negative effects), but will it be enough? By-elections that'll happen in the coming years will give us an indication, but it needs Blair on crack to defeat this lot, especially with the Scotland disadvantage.

 

Not only do the Government have nearly three years to ride this wave, they also have absolutely no shame and precedent. Barnard Castle was a huge scandal, and it's barely dented them in the polls 18 months down the line. Even if it does for the next few months, so what? There's plenty of soundbites, mudslinging, whataboutery and shithousing to do before the next election, no matter who the leader is. Social media helps to embed people's prejudices, their views. We're in a society that engages on the headline only, on what reinforces your view, or that whatever you read slightly critical of your political allegiance is just plain biased.

 

People go on about "Yeah but what are Labour?" and honestly I probably couldn't tell you off the top of my head, but to think that they're not even the slightest bit of a better alternative to what we've seen from this Government either shows a level of Stockholm Syndrome, genuine hatred of Labour generally or plain ignorance. One other thing, this Government has been in majority coalition or plain old running this country solo for 11 years now. It'll be 14 years when the next election comes around.

 

This country is not objectively in a better state than it was in 2010, Labour should be blazing ahead of them in the polls, and I think there's a mixture of the party being dragged back four decades by Corbyn and lacklustre populism for Starmer (which could change in time), but something needs to change. I think it's downright dangerous for Governments of any persuasion to be sitting so comfortably in power for such a long time when the country hasn't inextricably improved for the better. They get complacent, they start taking the piss with no consequence. At the minute is there anyone ready to come in and sweep this lot away, or are we heading for 20 years of Tory rule?

 

*I said Blair-type, don't want all the Iraq war crazies to come in saying I want Blair again.

What Labour needs is Andy Burnham, sure he has his flaws, but lets be honest he would win back the red wall overnight.

[SecretPro]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Just seen a clip James O'Brien, didn't realise there were numerous 'parties' now being reported from after that November lockdown through until the main one being talked about.

7 Parties now althogether.