Not The Politics Thread.

[Strokes]

16 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Probably try and blame it on them having no competent opposition, like when Boris used to spout Rashford provided better opposition, rather than answer any questions at PMQs with something informative

Weirdly, they were far better in government when Corbyn was in opposition.

I think they’ve run their course now, there is little to no talent left. A changing of the guard is desperately needed for the country  asap.

[Sly]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Weirdly, they were far better in government when Corbyn was in opposition.

I think they’ve run their course now, there is little to no talent left. A changing of the guard is desperately needed for the country  asap.

This is it. 
 

Starmer has tried to alter Labour away from the Corbynite brigade, however by doing this, to a degree he’s also made them more bland and actually be less of an opposition.

 

The country needs superior opposition to the Conservatives, as it’s better all around if whoever is in charge, to be questioned and challenged. 

 

A lib / green coalition would lead to an interesting new pathway 
 

 

 

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Sly said:

This is it. 
 

Starmer has tried to alter Labour away from the Corbynite brigade, however by doing this, to a degree he’s also made them more bland and actually be less of an opposition.

 

The country needs superior opposition to the Conservatives, as it’s better all around if whoever is in charge, to be questioned and challenged. 

 

A lib / green coalition would lead to an interesting new pathway 
 

 

 

I think the country needs the conservatives to be the opposition

 

[Dunge]

48 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

Yes but are you coming at it from a socialist viewpoint? As for the Shropshire by. It was clearly a protest vote, and note the votes didn’t go the way of labour! The Conservatives need to get Johnson out asap. Otherwise come 2024 well end up with some lib lab green coalition. 

I voted Conservative in 2019, have voted Conservative in my life more than any other party (but not exclusively) and voted Brexit.

 

But I increasingly don’t recognise the current leader, many of his cabinet and many of the backbenches as the Conservative party I’ve voted for. The party of competence. The party of making the tough decisions because they’re the right thing to do for the country and not pandering to loudmouths. The party of respect for the rule of law. The party of respect for alternative opinions. The party that understands we have standards.

 

Half the party needs a clearout, to get rid of this arrogant, Republicanesque attitude that’s crept into them. They look like they need to spend some time on the opposite benches for reflection, because the way they’re going they could disappear altogether (and before anyone cheers, remember that something will fill the void to replace them, and you might well really dislike that something). Frankly I’m just glad this didn’t happen while the lunatics were in charge of the asylum on the red side.

Edited 19 December 2021 by Dunge

[Sly]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

I think the country needs the conservatives to be the opposition

 

I’ve been a Conservative all my life and at this stage, I’m not disagreeing. 

[Tommy Fresh]

3 minutes ago, Sly said:

This is it. 
 

Starmer has tried to alter Labour away from the Corbynite brigade, however by doing this, to a degree he’s also made them more bland and actually be less of an opposition.

 

The country needs superior opposition to the Conservatives, as it’s better all around if whoever is in charge, to be questioned and challenged. 

 

A lib / green coalition would lead to an interesting new pathway 
 

 

 

Pretty hard to provide opposition to a bloke who refuses to take accountabilty or acknowledge what the opposition is saying. PMQs for example, you can't question and oppose Boris when all he does is mumble about anything but what he's being asked about before finishing with a weird question/statement/attack on Starmer. 

 

 

[Sly]

2 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I voted Conservative in 2019, have voted Conservative in my life more than any other party (but not exclusively) and voted Brexit.

 

But I increasingly don’t recognise the current leader, many of his cabinet and many of his cabinet as the Conservative party I’ve voted for. The party of competence. The party of making the tough decisions because they’re the right thing to do for the country and not pandering to loudmouths. The party of respect for the rule of law. The party of respect for alternative opinions. The party that understands we have standards.

 

Half the party needs a clearout, to get rid of this arrogant, Republicanesque attitude that’s crept into them. They look like they need to spend some time on the opposite benches for reflection, because the way they’re going they could disappear altogether (and before anyone cheers, remember that something will fill the void to replace them, and you might well really dislike that something). Frankly I’m just glad this didn’t happen while the lunatics were in charge of the asylum on the red side.

This is my viewpoint. 
 

We’ve let the rot run through and it needs removing. Unfortunately it’s largely gone too far in my eyes and we need that alternative opposition to push them. What we have in power isn’t what I voted for, although I was largely at odds with my decision last time as I was conservative / remain. 

[Sly]

Just now, Tommy Fresh said:

Pretty hard to provide opposition to a bloke who refuses to take accountabilty or acknowledge what the opposition is saying. PMQs for example, you can't question and oppose Boris when all he does is mumble about anything but what he's being asked about before finishing with a weird question/statement/attack on Starmer. 

 

 

The bloke just needs ousting, for the good of the party and the country at this point. 

[Tommy Fresh]

19 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Weirdly, they were far better in government when Corbyn was in opposition.

I think they’ve run their course now, there is little to no talent left. A changing of the guard is desperately needed for the country  asap.

Is that more to do with who was in charge of the Conservatives for most of that period rather than it being Corbyn. 

[Tommy Fresh]

2 minutes ago, Sly said:

The bloke just needs ousting, for the good of the party and the country at this point. 

Oh yeah I don't disagree Boris is terrible, just pointing out that it's harsh to criticise Labour under Starmer when the person you're opposing refuses to acknowledge any criticisms.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

I voted Conservative in 2019, have voted Conservative in my life more than any other party (but not exclusively) and voted Brexit.

 

But I increasingly don’t recognise the current leader, many of his cabinet and many of the backbenches as the Conservative party I’ve voted for. The party of competence. The party of making the tough decisions because they’re the right thing to do for the country and not pandering to loudmouths. The party of respect for the rule of law. The party of respect for alternative opinions. The party that understands we have standards.

 

Half the party needs a clearout, to get rid of this arrogant, Republicanesque attitude that’s crept into them. They look like they need to spend some time on the opposite benches for reflection, because the way they’re going they could disappear altogether (and before anyone cheers, remember that something will fill the void to replace them, and you might well really dislike that something). Frankly I’m just glad this didn’t happen while the lunatics were in charge of the asylum on the red side.

Good summary I’d say there is a large collection of Tory MPs on are on the extreme of the parties principles. 

 

The 1922 committee and the recent agitators on the coronavirus restrictions have eroded at the sensibilities of the party. 
 

That removal of the whip to the 21 MPs who rallied against the EU Withdrawal Bill took the ying from the yang. Some highly experienced people within that group who had expertise in law, defence and finance. A political party is best served with varying opinions that’s how democracy functions and improves 
 

. 

 

 

Edited 19 December 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[ealingfox]

What an utter crock of shit Brexit is. A complete con and yet another spineless tosser runs away from their own bullshit rather than deal with it.

 

[Strokes]

29 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Is that more to do with who was in charge of the Conservatives for most of that period rather than it being Corbyn. 

Yes to a point, although I would say Starmer’s strategy is quite clearly to let Boris have enough rope to hang himself. Whereas Corbyn gave him ammo to fire back with.

[Tommy Fresh]

41 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Yes to a point, although I would say Starmer’s strategy is quite clearly to let Boris have enough rope to hang himself. Whereas Corbyn gave him ammo to fire back with.

I think the let him crack on stratergy is finally paying out though

[weller54]

42 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

What an utter crock of shit Brexit is. A complete con and yet another spineless tosser runs away from their own bullshit rather than deal with it.

 

Absolutely 100%!..

Brexit was a conn that the gullible fell for. I'm still waiting to hear one positive to come from it!  Most of my friends and my missus voted leave!!..🤬. They didn't like Brussels dictating our laws..but when asked which particular law had affected their lives in an adverse way since 1974 none of them wanted to answer!.. because there wasn't any!!...

But of course brexit has given us the opportunity of trading with the rest of the world hasn't it...........

[Farrington fox]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I voted Conservative in 2019, have voted Conservative in my life more than any other party (but not exclusively) and voted Brexit.

 

But I increasingly don’t recognise the current leader, many of his cabinet and many of the backbenches as the Conservative party I’ve voted for. The party of competence. The party of making the tough decisions because they’re the right thing to do for the country and not pandering to loudmouths. The party of respect for the rule of law. The party of respect for alternative opinions. The party that understands we have standards.

 

Half the party needs a clearout, to get rid of this arrogant, Republicanesque attitude that’s crept into them. They look like they need to spend some time on the opposite benches for reflection, because the way they’re going they could disappear altogether (and before anyone cheers, remember that something will fill the void to replace them, and you might well really dislike that something). Frankly I’m just glad this didn’t happen while the lunatics were in charge of the asylum on the red side.

I agree with almost all of this. However I still believe they’ll turn things around before the next GE. But that’s primarily dependant on removing Johnson, and a few others. clearly there are deep divisions within the party. 

[The Horse's Mouth]

I still think they'll win with Johnson, but the majority would take a hit. We're likely for a hung parliament again surely 

[chapero82]

3 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I still think they'll win with Johnson, but the majority would take a hit. We're likely for a hung parliament again surely 

Sadly I think you are right, I just don’t understand how anyone could vote for them when all they do is look after the rich  

[Nick]

9 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I still think they'll win with Johnson, but the majority would take a hit. We're likely for a hung parliament again surely 

Johnson will be a one term Prime minister. His true calling lies in the after dinner speaking circuit and he's excited to get there.

[The Horse's Mouth]

56 minutes ago, Nick said:

Johnson will be a one term Prime minister. His true calling lies in the after dinner speaking circuit and he's excited to get there.

Yeah I can't see him in at 2024 either but I genuinely don't think a lot of this stuff with have turned his base off 

[Tommy Fresh]

1 hour ago, chapero82 said:

Sadly I think you are right, I just don’t understand how anyone could vote for them when all they do is look after the rich  

Demonise certain demographics in a way that appeals to the working class in addition to the traditional upper classes

[Mike Oxlong]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

Johnson will be a one term Prime minister. His true calling lies in the after dinner speaking circuit and he's excited to get there.

[Mike Oxlong]

3 hours ago, Nick said:

Johnson will be a one term Prime minister. His true calling lies in the after dinner speaking circuit and he's excited to get there.

Plus one for imaginative use of “lies” in a sentence relating to Boris 

[Nick]

Just now, Mike Oxlong said:

Plus one for imaginative use of “lies” in a sentence relating to Boris 

Thank you.

[HighPeakFox]

I've never voted Conservative. And yet I'm probably the sort of Labour/Green/LibDem voter that more traditional Labour voters sneer at, although I will concede that my family and background is conservative in nature, if not in political intent. If we had PR, I'd vote more honestly than FPTP allows me to.

 

It is only now that I'm old/mature enough to recognise that not all Tories were/are bad, and it is really shown by the heinous bunch of amoral crooks in charge right now - suddenly, the difference between them and people of genuine good intent and principle (such as Ken Clarke, John Major or Dominic Grieve) is made starkly obvious. I happen to be baffled when people such as those named align themselves to the Tory party, but then we all have our reasons and social pressures, and those reasons don't stop the basic human decency of great individuals.

 

I guess I'm saying this because some Tory voters here are wanting the best of their party back, and I'm saying 'it's gone, never to return'. In my opinion, your party sold its soul when Cameron caved into the baying right over Brexit, and his arrogance and stupidity will have its echoes in our society for generations to come. The sooner this is realised and you move your votes, rather than doubling down and making yourself look even more gullible, the better for us all - again, my opinion rather than anything else.

 

 

 

Edited 19 December 2021 by HighPeakFox