Not The Politics Thread.

[StanSP]

14 minutes ago, Strokes said:

My memory of the timeline is a little hazy, iirc I had just about returned to work. 
Basically everyone was behind a screen, face masks had not been made mandatory yet? Meetings were on zoom or teams, face to face contact was avoided as much as possible.

We couldn’t meet anyone, even on park benches.

Basically that photo is a complete affront to the efforts of the nation and remember not long before this photo, Johnson and most of his cabinet had contracted the virus and spread it around.

Its deplorable and indefensible.

Was it still the time we could only have a hour's exercise each day, too?

 

You're right though. Just another slap in the face of what we were told - ordered - to do and yet they're lapping it up chilling in their garden. Anyone failing to see the contradictory actions compared to instructions is just naive.

[adam]

This is why people get slightly annoyed by Boris and his tea party. 

[Jon the Hat]

4 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Was it still the time we could only have a hour's exercise each day, too?

 

You're right though. Just another slap in the face of what we were told - ordered - to do and yet they're lapping it up chilling in their garden. Anyone failing to see the contradictory actions compared to instructions is just naive.

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

[Buce]

5 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

This is one thing I absolutely loathed about the Corbyn era. The demonisation of the whole of the opposition is just so ****ing childish and counterproductive. Not just the Momentum types with T-shirts and signs saying Never Kissed a Tory etc, but people like John McDonnell, a fully grown man in his 60s, saying he could never be friends with a Tory. How the **** are you supposed to attract votes from people who usually vote the other way when you talk to them like this? Look at how ‘basket of deplorables’ turned out for Clinton.  

 

That’s thankfully mostly gone away under Starmer though I was annoyed that Angela Rayner resorted to calling them Tory Scum when making extremely valid criticisms. I do like her in terms of values, background and potential for government and I felt she was above that. And obviously she’d have to make a big ****ing U turn when David Amess ends up being murdered. 

 

I think you are misinterpreting what McDonnell and Rayner mean.

 

When they disparage Tories, I believe they are not referring to just anyone who votes Tory, rather those who self-identify as Tory; and I get that. There are a couple of people on here who I know have voted Tory, yet I consider them as dear friends - they would only have to pick up the phone and say, "I need your help, Buce", and I'd be there for them, no questions asked, because I know them to be decent people. But when someone self-identifies as a Tory (politicians/ party members etc) it tells me everything I need to know about them; it tells me we have nothing in common and there would be no basis for friendship. I could be friendly toward them, but I could never view them as a friend.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

Mate, they’ve got cheese and wine. Open sharing bottles, look at the pictures. It’s not on, it really isn’t.

The Virus raged through Downing Street just a month before this, and you can see why. They did not give a shit.

[Finnaldo]

5 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

 

Either this was not that important a meeting or the PM is conducting important meetings with wine and cheese, and absolutely nothing to take notes or record minutes. 

[Buce]

15 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Was it still the time we could only have a hour's exercise each day, too?

 

You're right though. Just another slap in the face of what we were told - ordered - to do and yet they're lapping it up chilling in their garden. Anyone failing to see the contradictory actions compared to instructions is just naive.

 

Or are just blindly supporting their team (see below)

 

8 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

 

There are no words.

Edited 20 December 2021 by Buce

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Was it still the time we could only have a hour's exercise each day, too?

Not too sure but I think so yes.

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

 

You're right though. Just another slap in the face of what we were told - ordered - to do and yet they're lapping it up chilling in their garden. Anyone failing to see the contradictory actions compared to instructions is just naive.

We all missed key events or had people miss ours. Kids had birthdays in lockdown, funerals had minimal attendances, weddings cancelled, holidays missed for what? Why did we bother?

[StanSP]

11 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

You totally miss the point if the only thing you take from this is that we assume they should have been working from home. So what? Did they have to gather in such a way they were telling people not to, whether working or not? Fine if they want/have to work from the office, the picture hardly looks like working though, does it? 

 

They had/have a total disdain for the rules. Not an iota of self-awareness or care for them or anyone they are telling to act.

 

'do as I say, not as a I do'. 

 

You can't stick stringent rules in place and then freely break them. It's not just a one-off either. He doesn't lead by example and it's no wonder there's regular revelations of rule-breaking and disillusion in the party.

 

[ealingfox]

17 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

 

Can you provide your source for thinking this was not only not bending the rules, but was entirely within them?

[Tommy Fresh]

19 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

Surely with how important his role was during a pandemic, you'd assume he'd have some intelligence (hard pushed I know) to realise himself and those around him couldn't really afford to be out of action. 

[weller54]

56 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Bozza couldn’t even be arsed to turn up to the Cobra meeting on Saturday 

Unlike him to turn down a nice few Indian Beers!!

[foxes1988]

10 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Oh my god! People running the country relax in their work bubble.  Ffs this is getting tedious.

I suspect this is purely down to it being 'your side' that's its getting tedious to you.

 

[danny.]

44 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

It doesn’t really matter who is running the country. They are all compromised. We have an illusion of democracy that is just good enough to keep us divided. Has no one ever stood back and wondered why we have political parties that we can side with against our fellows, then feel smug when one side or the other wins?

I agree, tribalism is a huge problem in U.K. politics. Another good reason we need PR, at least people could then vote for policies and not just to try and keep out one of the two parties they like the least. 

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, ARM1968 said:

It doesn’t really matter who is running the country. They are all compromised. We have an illusion of democracy that is just good enough to keep us divided. Has no one ever stood back and wondered why we have political parties that we can side with against our fellows, then feel smug when one side or the other wins?

I watched a great YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand recently. Peterson was talking about right v left in politics and the strengths/weaknesses of both sides and ideologies.

 

It made me think about the whole system and why we can't just take the best ideas/talent from both sides, and work together to do what's best for the country.

 

I guess it will never happen and you'll never please al the people all the time, but as a country we seem pretty shit at collaborating because one side or the other must be 'in power'

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I watched a great YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand recently. Peterson was talking about right v left in politics and the strengths/weaknesses of both sides and ideologies.

 

It made me think about the whole system and why we can't just take the best ideas/talent from both sides, and work together to do what's best for the country.

 

I guess it will never happen and you'll never please al the people all the time, but as a country we seem pretty shit at collaborating because one side or the other must be 'in power'

I think this is what we would end up with if we abolished fptp voting systems. 
Initially you’d get minority governments but eventually you’d get coalition’s from both sides and trade offs. 

[Izzy]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think this is what we would end up with if we abolished fptp voting systems. 
Initially you’d get minority governments but eventually you’d get coalition’s from both sides and trade offs. 

I’m not clued up on world politics, but I wonder if there are any examples of other countries where this actually works well?

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I’m not clued up on world politics, but I wonder if there are any examples of other countries where this actually works well?

Most of Europe tbf.

The downsides are it takes an age to get things done but I rather think we would benefit from a more pragmatic version of politics. 

Edited 20 December 2021 by Strokes

[danny.]

18 minutes ago, Izzy said:

I watched a great YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand recently. Peterson was talking about right v left in politics and the strengths/weaknesses of both sides and ideologies.

 

It made me think about the whole system and why we can't just take the best ideas/talent from both sides, and work together to do what's best for the country.

 

I guess it will never happen and you'll never please al the people all the time, but as a country we seem pretty shit at collaborating because one side or the other must be 'in power'

Sounds like a coalition government

[danny.]

7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Most of Europe tbf.

The downsides are it takes an age to get things done but I rather think we would benefit from a more pragmatic version of politics. 

They seem to be able to get things done in most of Europe. Compare somewhere like Utrecht to Birmingham and it feels decades years ahead. We might be able to get things done more quickly here but I’m not sure those things are always good..

[Strokes]

22 minutes ago, danny. said:

They seem to be able to get things done in most of Europe. Compare somewhere like Utrecht to Birmingham and it feels decades years ahead. We might be able to get things done more quickly here but I’m not sure those things are always good..

I do think it’s improving since the introduction of city and county mayor’s. I think Local powers have begun to see a change in approach and results, we just need to increase funding now.

[ealingfox]

28 minutes ago, danny. said:

They seem to be able to get things done in most of Europe. Compare somewhere like Utrecht to Birmingham and it feels decades years ahead. We might be able to get things done more quickly here but I’m not sure those things are always good..

 

Having previously lived in Utrecht this seems an odd comparison. You mean in terms of regeneration programme or transport infrastructure? Or something else?

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I watched a great YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand recently. Peterson was talking about right v left in politics and the strengths/weaknesses of both sides and ideologies.

 

It made me think about the whole system and why we can't just take the best ideas/talent from both sides, and work together to do what's best for the country.

 

I guess it will never happen and you'll never please al the people all the time, but as a country we seem pretty shit at collaborating because one side or the other must be 'in power'

Not just limited to the UK, sadly. The entirety of world realpolitik is based on that last sentence.

 

Of course, eventually, the Earth will force us to collaborate or face truly dire consequences. Hopefully we make the right choice at that point.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, StanSP said:

Was it still the time we could only have a hour's exercise each day, too?

 

You're right though. Just another slap in the face of what we were told - ordered - to do and yet they're lapping it up chilling in their garden. Anyone failing to see the contradictory actions compared to instructions is just naive.

It was. My birthday was the day before - you were permitted to meet someone outside but only 2 of you and social distancing. My Dad travelled two hours to see me for a hour for the first time in 3 months. 
 

 

2 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

It’s absolutely contradictory to instructions if you assume they should have been working from home.  They were running the country though, so that never applied to them, whether you like it or not.

Can’t think of many countries or many work meetings where you invite your wife 

[SexyGammonFox]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I watched a great YouTube interview with Jordan Peterson and Russell Brand recently. Peterson was talking about right v left in politics and the strengths/weaknesses of both sides and ideologies.

 

It made me think about the whole system and why we can't just take the best ideas/talent from both sides, and work together to do what's best for the country.

 

I guess it will never happen and you'll never please al the people all the time, but as a country we seem pretty shit at collaborating because one side or the other must be 'in power'

To take that idea a step further, both Labour and the Tories have struggled even to collaborate with each other within the confines of their own parties over the last 5 years. Never mind each other.