Not The Politics Thread.

[Farrington fox]

41 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

... the plot of many disaster movies where a politician ignores the scientific consensus, does what they want (or what they think the "people" want) and things don't exactly go well.

 

It seems however that there are many who seem bound and determined to disparage the scientific method while a. Doing practically everything under the blanket that it provides and b. Supplying no better alternative.

 

It's a little frustrating.

It’s difficult to trust them especially when one is quoted as saying there could be 6k thousand deaths a day during this wave. There could be 50k. But it’s odds on certain there won’t. Thankfully Johnson and some ministers got this decision right. A week ago they said cases would double every 2 or 3 days. Have they? From what I can see they’ve more or less flat lined. 

[Farrington fox]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

There’s a difference between stuff that isn’t v invasive on our lives and stuff that is.  Some Precautions are surely reasonable in the face of uncertainty….

im not sure that the govt can be lauded for that much over the past couple years - but to an extend, they’re damned etc etc 

Yes I agree. I think the restrictions in place right now are about right. However if you live in Scotland or Wales…

[leicsmac]

4 minutes ago, Farrington fox said:

It’s difficult to trust them especially when one is quoted as saying there could be 6k thousand deaths a day during this wave. There could be 50k. But it’s odds on certain there won’t. Thankfully Johnson and some ministers got this decision right. A week ago they said cases would double every 2 or 3 days. Have they? From what I can see they’ve more or less flat lined. 

As has been said before, such things are almost always uncertain and I've no idea why people expect them to not be so. They're still self correcting and better than all other alternatives when it comes to understanding the world.

 

Also as has been said before, at the end of the Boy Who Cried Wolf the wolf *does* come. And the consequences for the villagers are much worse for not having listened and the boy being right just once.

[LiberalFox]

On 20/12/2021 at 03:08, urban.spaceman said:

This is one thing I absolutely loathed about the Corbyn era. The demonisation of the whole of the opposition is just so ****ing childish and counterproductive. Not just the Momentum types with T-shirts and signs saying Never Kissed a Tory etc, but people like John McDonnell, a fully grown man in his 60s, saying he could never be friends with a Tory. How the **** are you supposed to attract votes from people who usually vote the other way when you talk to them like this? Look at how ‘basket of deplorables’ turned out for Clinton.  

 

That’s thankfully mostly gone away under Starmer though I was annoyed that Angela Rayner resorted to calling them Tory Scum when making extremely valid criticisms. I do like her in terms of values, background and potential for government and I felt she was above that. And obviously she’d have to make a big ****ing U turn when David Amess ends up being murdered. 

That sort of thing needs to be called out more on the left, and not just because it might affect the way people vote.

[Dahnsouff]

On 20/12/2021 at 03:08, urban.spaceman said:

This is one thing I absolutely loathed about the Corbyn era. The demonisation of the whole of the opposition is just so ****ing childish and counterproductive. Not just the Momentum types with T-shirts and signs saying Never Kissed a Tory etc, but people like John McDonnell, a fully grown man in his 60s, saying he could never be friends with a Tory. How the **** are you supposed to attract votes from people who usually vote the other way when you talk to them like this? Look at how ‘basket of deplorables’ turned out for Clinton.  

 

That’s thankfully mostly gone away under Starmer though I was annoyed that Angela Rayner resorted to calling them Tory Scum when making extremely valid criticisms. I do like her in terms of values, background and potential for government and I felt she was above that. And obviously she’d have to make a big ****ing U turn when David Amess ends up being murdered. 

Missed this post at the time, but could not agree more. Intentionally creating/implying divisions in society, especially if being done to win vote/score points, is reprehensible and indictaes someone is certainly not fit for public office.

[RobHawk]

The way I look it at is we are all human first, avoid money, politics and religion and you could probably bond with anyone over sport, music or other hobbies or interests you may share.

 

The idea that you couldn't be friends with a person who has different beleifs to you is proper weird. 

 

I have mates who support man utd, Liverpool and arsenal doesn't mean I can't be mates with them because they aren't Leicester fans. 

[Strokes]

19 hours ago, RobHawk said:

The way I look it at is we are all human first, avoid money, politics and religion and you could probably bond with anyone over sport, music or other hobbies or interests you may share.

 

The idea that you couldn't be friends with a person who has different beleifs to you is proper weird. 

 

I have mates who support man utd, Liverpool and arsenal doesn't mean I can't be mates with them because they aren't Leicester fans. 

I draw the line at forest fans.

[bovril]

4 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I draw the line at forest fans.

Forest fans can't make friends, they don't have the required emotional intelligence to cultivate even basic relationships

[RobHawk]

6 hours ago, Strokes said:

I draw the line at forest fans.

Forest fans aren't human so not included in my initial post

[Charl91]

@UpTheLeagueFox Can we get some polls please? It's been a while!

[Facecloth]

13 minutes ago, Charl91 said:

@UpTheLeagueFox Can we get some polls please? It's been a while!

I think he's become one of FT missing posters. Hasn't been on for ages, let alone posted anything.

[urban.spaceman]

23 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

I think he's become one of FT missing posters. Hasn't been on for ages, let alone posted anything.

Check his twitter profile, he's not having the best time.

[Facecloth]

Just now, urban.spaceman said:

Check his twitter profile, he's not having the best time.

Don't go on there too much tbh, even though I think I follow him on there.

 

I did just look. Knew he had an elderly mum as he'd mentioned her a few times on here. Never an easy time losing a parent.

[FoxyPV]

On 23/12/2021 at 23:27, RobHawk said:

The way I look it at is we are all human first, avoid money, politics and religion and you could probably bond with anyone over sport, music or other hobbies or interests you may share.

 

The idea that you couldn't be friends with a person who has different beleifs to you is proper weird. 

 

I have mates who support man utd, Liverpool and arsenal doesn't mean I can't be mates with them because they aren't Leicester fans. 

It's really not though.

 

I don't want to spend my time with people who are racist etc.

 

Tories, I generally don't like but, I can pass the time with. There will never be a closeness but your beliefs define who you are as a person and therefore your values. 

 

If you've radically different values then why spend time together.

[RobHawk]

19 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

It's really not though.

 

I don't want to spend my time with people who are racist etc.

 

Tories, I generally don't like but, I can pass the time with. There will never be a closeness but your beliefs define who you are as a person and therefore your values. 

 

If you've radically different values then why spend time together.

So you couldn't be friends with someone who had different religious beliefs to you then? 

 

I'm not talking your Islamist extremists but I'm an atheist and have friends who are Muslim, Christian, Hindu etc. 

 

It's the same in politics, I may stay clear of the extremists but I can still have plenty in common with people regardless of who the put a tick for in a box on polling day. 

 

The ability to not accept that people are different and think differently is a major reason that politics is in the bin these days in my opinion. Once upon a time, you could talk, debate and if needed agree to disagree and move on. 

[Strokes]

33 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

So you couldn't be friends with someone who had different religious beliefs to you then? 

 

I'm not talking your Islamist extremists but I'm an atheist and have friends who are Muslim, Christian, Hindu etc. 

 

It's the same in politics, I may stay clear of the extremists but I can still have plenty in common with people regardless of who the put a tick for in a box on polling day. 

 

The ability to not accept that people are different and think differently is a major reason that politics is in the bin these days in my opinion. Once upon a time, you could talk, debate and if needed agree to disagree and move on. 

Exactly, 

We can all get carried away on here and maybe occasionally personal but I’d have a beer or cuppa with anyone and reckon we’d be able to get on ok.

I’ve fought and debated fiercely with lots of you that are on the left, left/centre. However my politics is closer to yours than that of extreme right types, we are fighting mostly over much smaller ideals.

I know it’s a cliché to say I’ve a black friend but I’ve got loads of friends that aren’t British nationals. Just because people who are racist vote the same way I have, should not tar me with them. 
I think some of the most interesting, vibrant and brilliant people hold completely different views to mine and that’s ok. 
 

Edited 27 December 2021 by Strokes

[bovril]

Generally I've found people to be much closer on political issues than they think. The differences between most people's politics in Britain is pretty minute compared to some of the differences that exist round the world, sometimes even in the same country.

 

With religion it's a bit trickier but I'm quite religious and my friends are almost all atheists and it's never been a problem.

 

I think what helps is that very few of us use social media very much. 

[bovril]

At the same time I accept that what I wrote above is largely down to growing up in a relatively well-off family in a peaceful and sleepy part of England. 

[Charl91]

9 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Check his twitter profile, he's not having the best time.

Ah, didn't know that (don't use twitter).

 

In that case I wish him all the best!

[urban.spaceman]

This has annoyed all the right people. 
 

 

[What the Fuchs?]

7 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

This has annoyed all the right people. 
 

 

And who exactly are ‘all the right people’? Certain people in the Labour Party should be apologising to the people who desperately need a Labour government for actively campaigning for the Tories in 2017 and 2019, like those two wastes of space who endorsed Johnson and were given peerages by him, despite supposedly being Labour MPs for years. People like them enabled this sh1tshow of a government and hurt the very people the Labour Party is supposed to protect.

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, bovril said:

Generally I've found people to be much closer on political issues than they think. The differences between most people's politics in Britain is pretty minute compared to some of the differences that exist round the world, sometimes even in the same country.

 

With religion it's a bit trickier but I'm quite religious and my friends are almost all atheists and it's never been a problem.

 

I think what helps is that very few of us use social media very much. 

This is true, and so it should be easier for folks in the UK to mostly get along.

 

However, the problem is that those world differences also (in small and sometimes big ways) affect people in the UK, so they can't and shouldn't be ignored. On certain matters, not being of one mind will do humanity no favours at all.

[WigstonWanderer]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This is true, and so it should be easier for folks in the UK to mostly get along.

 

However, the problem is that those world differences also (in small and sometimes big ways) affect people in the UK, so they can't and shouldn't be ignored. On certain matters, not being of one mind will do humanity no favours at all.

The problem is that ruthless politicians, particularly on the right have (re)discovered that they can gain advantage by deliberately polarising their electorate. Keeping their supporters enraged keeps them in power. This destroys consensus and undermines the very rule book that underpins democracy.

Edited 28 December 2021 by WigstonWanderer

[leicsmac]

9 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

The problem is that ruthless politicians, particularly on the right have (re)discovered that they can gain advantage by deliberately polarising their electorate. Keeping their supporters enraged keeps them in power.

Agreed, and the internet has acted as a force multiplier for this.

 

However, as difficult as the problem is, certain problems aren't going to wait around for us to find a solution to it before they become rather horrible.

[urban.spaceman]

1 hour ago, What the Fuchs? said:

And who exactly are ‘all the right people’? Certain people in the Labour Party should be apologising to the people who desperately need a Labour government for actively campaigning for the Tories in 2017 and 2019, like those two wastes of space who endorsed Johnson and were given peerages by him, despite supposedly being Labour MPs for years. People like them enabled this sh1tshow of a government and hurt the very people the Labour Party is supposed to protect.

The right people in this case being Corbynites and Momentum people, who are not happy in the replies. I’m generally of the view that his election in 2015 was an experiment that was clearly not going to work within the space of a year, as evidenced by his performance in the referendum, the vote of no confidence and the support for Owen Smith by MPs in the leadership election that followed. But his base kept him in, and while he did better than expected in 2017 he should absolutely have stood down. His unpopularity with the public was clear, his inability to lead was clear, but he never listened and never stood down. He put himself above the country and was still convinced he won the argument despite the overwhelming rejection of the public and Labour’s worst defeat in 80 years. 
 

Going up against Johnson in 2019 was like Leicester City giving away a corner.