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Buce

Not The Politics Thread.

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On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

Everything Sly wrote

 

Hard to really disagree with pretty much everything you said. I particularly liked your point about drugs and taxation. I've worked with cops and done a lot of reading - I personally don't smoke, do drugs or drink at all and haven't for 15 years - but the overwhelming evidence is that criminalisation of drugs just creates more problems.

 

I'd actually take it further and give lower level dealers with no history of violence/ sexual offences the chance to retrain. Gets them out of the game much quicker. 

 

The nasty bastards in charge, though, they can rot in isolation for all I care. Same for those that groomed kids into county lines. 

 

 

Side note - energy prices are worrying me and I really think we need to plough on with green energy and insulation in this country. Yes, it might cost a bit now but in 20 years when the gas runs out/ Russia turns it off, we'll at least have warmer homes and our own sources. 

 

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1 hour ago, fox_up_north said:

Side note - energy prices are worrying me and I really think we need to plough on with green energy and insulation in this country. Yes, it might cost a bit now but in 20 years when the gas runs out/ Russia turns it off, we'll at least have warmer homes and our own sources. 

 

Totally agree. We rely too much on outdated infrastructure in this country, and it seems that these in charge only care about giving a leg up to their friends and donors while those on the lower rungs of the ladder fall further behind. Levelling up, my backside.

 

No different with electric cars. So many more people would adopt if there were stronger financial purchasing incentives to do so, like elsewhere in Europe. For many, they're just too expensive. VAT on petrol will probably have a chunk to do with that.

Edited by Górnik Leicester
Somehow contrived to use "their" instead of "there", and now must live in eternal shame.
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As a start, I don’t disagree with a lot of your post and you raise some good suggestions, however they’re probably are some issues here: 

 

On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

Unemployment - Some form of work fare scheme - whereby claiming benefits go out and undertake litter picking, farming etc? I’m not talking hundreds of hours per week either! Just something so that they’re giving back to the system at least.    The number of people claiming certain allowances needs re-assessing as well, as that’s taking money from the system. 

 


There’s two issues with this: locality and the work itself. For example, we need tons of fruit pickers, yet it’ll be extremely difficult to get some bloke in the centre of Birmingham or Manchester to a fruit farm every day. Even if there are some more ‘local’ in semi-urban or rural areas (although you’ll be working with a smaller pool of claimants) then it can still be a travel issue getting to whatever needs them if there still a fair trip away with, as you covered, poor travel infrastructure. Do you bus them in every day? Temp accommodation on sight? Who pays for the this, the claimant (in which case it’ll take a massive portion of what they’re ‘earning’, as it’s currently a bit of a pittance) or the government, or the farmer they’re working under? Is that cost productive? 
 

Then there’s the question of: are these people being paid properly for what they do? Or are they being exploited under wage for the benefit of farmers? Would the farmer be expected to top that up? I’ve luckily been in work since I left school, but if I was to lose my job next week, am I expected to head straight onto the fields if I don’t have a job lined up? Or is there a period before where it’s not necessary to work? I understand you said it’s not necessarily full time, but then it’s whether all these costs around it work out, and whether it’s actually cost productive to put it in place. 
 

So whilst I do get your points of a ‘Public Works Scheme’, perhaps it may be worth doing it either as a ‘top-up’ to current benefits, or in conjunction with properly funded training schemes if necessary, and perhaps apprenticeships for younger folk on it. 
 

On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

Prison service - Increase the capacity, more severe sentences, however the cost needs reducing so reduced human rights would need to be reviewed, no luxury TVs, consoles etc! I appreciate it’s a balance of balancing boredom with re-education …… maybe get them litter picking. 


More severe sentencing is useful in some cases (see: Pitchfork) however in general terms, does nothing but cost more. Human rights is asking for mountains of legal challenges and costs. In general, it’s found in places like Norway, where they move the other way and create proper rehabilitation to begin with, then move to low-security ‘prison villages’ when deemed ready, where they learn adaptable skills (mechanics, carpentry, plumbing, electrical work) and anything they make or service (I.e. furniture or items if it’s carpentry, servicing cars if it’s mechanics) is sold or offered as a service to the public. They generally have quite low reoffending rates. You can read about it here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-48885846


So again, I agree the most violent and ‘lost’, if found ‘unrehabilitable’, need tougher sentences, otherwise it’s still a costly exercise imprisoning folk even without luxuries, and just makes them more bitter when they are released. 

 

On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

* Pensions - Extend the retirement age to 70. People are generally fitter now, so can work longer than 10 - 15 years ago. This would alone save millions of resources that can be allocated elsewhere. Again not a popular choice, however needs must. 


This may be controversial: the current biggest ‘benefit sponges’ are the elderly. With inflation included, the rise cost of living means that most elderly claiming would have took what they put in to State Pension years ago. We need to seriously abolish the triple lock and reform the distribution and allocation of state pension, including making it means tested. Even with medical advances and the like, people still aren’t living THAT much longer, we have more obese and physically unfit than ever before, and including the stress for working jobs longer, it’s unlikely many would reap the benefits of retirement, yet alone enjoy it if they make it. 
 

So unfortunately, if the younger generations are to be offered anything of a meaningful pension, old generations will have to take on the ‘Bulldog Spirit’ they love to bang on about and make some sacrifices. We can’t survive as a gerontocracy. 
 

On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

* Voting - Mandatory for all to return votes, even if they exercise the right to not vote, at least get them to return / acknowledge some form of return. The House of Lords needs a proper reform as that’s a mess of anyone that has got in financially. It would be better with a more balanced council of 100 people, from various walks of life. Party funding needs reviewing as well, as that’s a bit of a joke!  Potentially county Mayors? With a proper structured local council below them might be a better way forward. 

 

I feel reform of our entire system is required, but that’s been discussed before. I do agree in general though.

 

On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

Maybe all a little simplistic and I’m not doing the books, however some of these issues just don’t seem to be addressed! 

 


You have some great ideas in there in my opinion, obviously I’ve laid out my counterpoints on some of it but I think you’re bang on in the areas I didn’t mention. A lot of this is (or SHOULD be) non-partisan and is common sense of we’re not to stagnate as a nation. 
 

The reason this country has never had a revolution is because the ruling powers at the time always allowed for the necessary changes and reform when the masses demanded it. This country has never been as apathetic or whimsical as it’s portrayed as and the more people who realise that and make their thoughts known the better!

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17 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

As a start, I don’t disagree with a lot of your post and you raise some good suggestions, however they’re probably are some issues here: 

 


There’s two issues with this: locality and the work itself. For example, we need tons of fruit pickers, yet it’ll be extremely difficult to get some bloke in the centre of Birmingham or Manchester to a fruit farm every day. Even if there are some more ‘local’ in semi-urban or rural areas (although you’ll be working with a smaller pool of claimants) then it can still be a travel issue getting to whatever needs them if there still a fair trip away with, as you covered, poor travel infrastructure. Do you bus them in every day? Temp accommodation on sight? Who pays for the this, the claimant (in which case it’ll take a massive portion of what they’re ‘earning’, as it’s currently a bit of a pittance) or the government, or the farmer they’re working under? Is that cost productive? 
 

Then there’s the question of: are these people being paid properly for what they do? Or are they being exploited under wage for the benefit of farmers? Would the farmer be expected to top that up? I’ve luckily been in work since I left school, but if I was to lose my job next week, am I expected to head straight onto the fields if I don’t have a job lined up? Or is there a period before where it’s not necessary to work? I understand you said it’s not necessarily full time, but then it’s whether all these costs around it work out, and whether it’s actually cost productive to put it in place. 
 

So whilst I do get your points of a ‘Public Works Scheme’, perhaps it may be worth doing it either as a ‘top-up’ to current benefits, or in conjunction with properly funded training schemes if necessary, and perhaps apprenticeships for younger folk on it. 
 


More severe sentencing is useful in some cases (see: Pitchfork) however in general terms, does nothing but cost more. Human rights is asking for mountains of legal challenges and costs. In general, it’s found in places like Norway, where they move the other way and create proper rehabilitation to begin with, then move to low-security ‘prison villages’ when deemed ready, where they learn adaptable skills (mechanics, carpentry, plumbing, electrical work) and anything they make or service (I.e. furniture or items if it’s carpentry, servicing cars if it’s mechanics) is sold or offered as a service to the public. They generally have quite low reoffending rates. You can read about it here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-48885846


So again, I agree the most violent and ‘lost’, if found ‘unrehabilitable’, need tougher sentences, otherwise it’s still a costly exercise imprisoning folk even without luxuries, and just makes them more bitter when they are released. 

 


This may be controversial: the current biggest ‘benefit sponges’ are the elderly. With inflation included, the rise cost of living means that most elderly claiming would have took what they put in to State Pension years ago. We need to seriously abolish the triple lock and reform the distribution and allocation of state pension, including making it means tested. Even with medical advances and the like, people still aren’t living THAT much longer, we have more obese and physically unfit than ever before, and including the stress for working jobs longer, it’s unlikely many would reap the benefits of retirement, yet alone enjoy it if they make it. 
 

So unfortunately, if the younger generations are to be offered anything of a meaningful pension, old generations will have to take on the ‘Bulldog Spirit’ they love to bang on about and make some sacrifices. We can’t survive as a gerontocracy. 
 

I feel reform of our entire system is required, but that’s been discussed before. I do agree in general though.

 


You have some great ideas in there in my opinion, obviously I’ve laid out my counterpoints on some of it but I think you’re bang on in the areas I didn’t mention. A lot of this is (or SHOULD be) non-partisan and is common sense of we’re not to stagnate as a nation. 
 

The reason this country has never had a revolution is because the ruling powers at the time always allowed for the necessary changes and reform when the masses demanded it. This country has never been as apathetic or whimsical as it’s portrayed as and the more people who realise that and make their thoughts known the better!

Thank you.

 

I was just ranting really and I wouldn’t actually disagree with your counter points, as they’ve proven elsewhere. 
 

I think some of it just needs openly discussing, as the mentality we have as a country at times does feel like we’re still thinking short term and not looking to revolutionise and forward plan quickly enough. Some of that will inherently be  people looking after their friends in other places I feel. We could have a real push on thinks like Electric motors etc, however I’d suspect that they have concerns about a financial black hole, due to a sharp drop off in fuel tax.
 

I’d like a totally new party with no political connections to take control, so everything gets assessed independently. 
 

A good leader, with always listen to his people. Take on board the advice of the people around him with counter arguments and better knowledge and experience, then make a judgement call. I’m not sure that happens under the current regime, hence we are in this position of mistrust with the current government. 

 

We need a Foxes Party.
 

#ChatSh*tGetBanged :ph34r:

 

 


 

 

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10 minutes ago, when_you're_smiling said:

Slightly worrying how close you were with this. 

Yeah don't you just love to see the AG grandstanding to try and appeal to Daily Mail readers etc. Especially bearing in mind that you'd hope she is aware her threats are totally without substance unless the CPS decides to refer the case in question to the Court of Appeal. Which it wont. 

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1 hour ago, Fox in the North said:

 

Enjoying this slow drip of leaks coming out.

 

Make the claim, get a denial. Leak a video. Public are furious. Stratton thrown under the bus. Everything goes quiet. 

 

Make a further claim, get another denial, leak an email, Reynolds will be thrown under the bus. Public are angry again.

 

Someone's going to leak a photo of Johnson soon, I hope. 

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7 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Hes actually a genius in away, he lies so much that it's not even news now 

And that's why, "They call him Britain Trump"

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On 06/01/2022 at 04:31, Sly said:

I still think we’re a bit of a mess and divided as a country. Brexit drove a big wedge between people and we’re now seeing this again with the handling of the virus. 

 

As a country, it feels like our policy is still very much short terms and we aren’t thinking beyond the next 4 years at times.

 

* NHS needs sorting out. As explained in the Corona thread by @Parafox, the red tape involved to inject the vaccine is crazy, to then be rejected when he has more than enough relevant experience. That will be costing us millions and we’re wasting time, not just money. That’s one example of what I’m assuming is one of millions that people could tell us. The stress on the system is crazy. It needs a flatter structure, run with an aligned approach and accountability. If people can’t fix it, who them the door and get someone that will.
 

* Environment - We need a drive to go greener, quicker. Just ban plastic bags, go paper, never mind the larger super markets charging and making money for the bloody things. I know it’s harsh now, however reduce the amount going to landfill and force the hand to recycle. People should be given a financial incentive deal to recycle, so put glass / plastic bottles in a machine etc. Littering / fly tipping should be a hefty fine.
 

Unemployment - Some form of work fare scheme - whereby claiming benefits go out and undertake litter picking, farming etc? I’m not talking hundreds of hours per week either! Just something so that they’re giving back to the system at least.    The number of people claiming certain allowances needs re-assessing as well, as that’s taking money from the system. 

 

Prison service - Increase the capacity, more severe sentences, however the cost needs reducing so reduced human rights would need to be reviewed, no luxury TVs, consoles etc! I appreciate it’s a balance of balancing boredom with re-education …… maybe get them litter picking. 
 

Taxation - If you’re operating in this country, you pay tax. No dodgy offshore banking or anything like that. Can you

imagine the amount of extra money we’d generate tomorrow if we actually did this? 

 

* Infrastructure / construction - We need an all round improved rail, road, sea and air links. Construction costs are sky rocketing, however that is partially due to

companies looking to profiteer off the current availability struggles. We’d be better privatising a sector of the market, as the initial outlay would make for significant cost saving (if run correctly), down the line. I keep seeing we need extra houses etc? Why, are we expecting a growth in population? Yes, I appreciate we need some, however they don’t all need to be detached, 5 beds etc! Build terraced properties and starter home Villages if we need to. Make them actually affordable to people. Council tax needs assessing as well, as people

who sit on empty homes, should be taxed more not less. Maybe a tax on the value of the house, rather than something set by the local authority would be better? Potentially increase the tax per house or something like that. If companies land bank and don’t build, the state should have the right to purchase : auction properties or housing that isn’t used. We also don’t need to continue to destroy the green belt land we have either, plenty of other lands that is redundant and could be utilised first. 
 

 

* Pensions - Extend the retirement age to 70. People are generally fitter now, so can work longer than 10 - 15 years ago. This would alone save millions of resources that can be allocated elsewhere. Again not a popular choice, however needs must. 

 

* Education - Should be mandatory until 21, be that through College, University or some working of education / work based apprenticeship. If you can’t find anything ….. National service it is! I’ve seen models that suggest that starting school at a later age is beneficial and maybe this needs assessing. The cost saving on this, would potentially go some way in reducing the crazy childcare cost if it’s feasible. We could also do with cutting the pointless higher education courses. Focus in on the key areas we need as a country, engineering, IT, healthcare and build the entire education system

around a pathway to a longer term career. Not something that was taken on a whim like Horology, Surfing or consumer behaviour! 

 

* Transport - Drive for electric / solar vehicles needs accelerating. So does the infrastructure for charging etc. Every new  home should with one. Terraced houses will need them plugged into the floor on the road somehow. We also need to do more to encourage walking and cycling, as that would improve overall health and well-being. We’re in a more technology advanced world now, you don’t need to hop on a plane to have a business meeting in Japan for 2 hours.

* Drugs / alcohol - With the amount of illegal drugs trade, you could argue that legalisation of certain products would allow for increased national Income via taxation. Increase the cost of alcohol of per unit. 


* Voting - Mandatory for all to return votes, even if they exercise the right to not vote, at least get them to return / acknowledge some form of return. The House of Lords needs a proper reform as that’s a mess of anyone that has got in financially. It would be better with a more balanced council of 100 people, from various walks of life. Party funding needs reviewing as well, as that’s a bit of a joke!  Potentially county Mayors? With a proper structured local council below them might be a better way forward. 

 

* Media - All needs holding accountable for spinning lies and spreading rumours. Be that the old classic newspaper or social media. 
 

* Gambling - It needs a proper reform, as it’s heavily linked to poor mental health and addictiveness. It also needs a limit on how much people are allowed to spend. The reform would need to

go from the advertising, to the free bets, jackpot machines, odds being clearer on potential winnings. 

 

Maybe all a little simplistic and I’m not doing the books, however some of these issues just don’t seem to be addressed! 

 

 

Working to 70 is a con  Some of us have been working full time since 15 or 16. Do you think have extra life at say 75 to 85 will be same quality of life at 65 to 75. Please don't turn this into a fight between the generations.  We oldies have kids and grandkids we care about. We already have the meanest state pensions in the West. 

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