Not The Politics Thread.

[weller54]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I’d carry on and vote for Boris if they did that.

So you're pleased with how it's going then?

Name one real advantage of being out?

[Strokes]

11 minutes ago, weller54 said:

So you're pleased with how it's going then?

Name one real advantage of being out?

My money is constantly going up due to engineer shortages. That’s due to the end of freedom of movement. 
 

What’s about brexit has affected you?

[Strokes]

26 minutes ago, weller54 said:

So you're pleased with how it's going then?

Name one real advantage of being out?

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

What’s about brexit has affected you?

That will be a resounding nothing then?

Thought as much…

[Tommy Fresh]

20 minutes ago, Strokes said:

My money is constantly going up due to engineer shortages. That’s due to the end of freedom of movement. 
 

What’s about brexit has affected you?

Theoretically it doesn't have to affect you in a positive or adverse way to have an opinion on it. 

[Strokes]

13 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

Theoretically it doesn't have to affect you in a positive or adverse way to have an opinion on it. 

I never said it did. 

 

Theoretically it doesn’t have to have had any positive affects, anywhere or for anyone to not want to reopen it either.

Political lines got drawn by brexit, they are beginning to fade. If people want to redraw them, it’s up to them.

 

[Tommy Fresh]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I never said it did. 

 

Theoretically it doesn’t have to have had any positive affects, anywhere or for anyone to not want to reopen it either.

Political lines got drawn by brexit, they are beginning to fade. If people want to redraw them, it’s up to them.

 

I get your point on not going over old ground, but you've cited a positive for yourself and asked what's affected him. Simply pointing out it doesn't even have to of affected him, for him to be annoyed at how poor the whole process has been.

[Strokes]

49 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I get your point on not going over old ground, but you've cited a positive for yourself and asked what's affected him. Simply pointing out it doesn't even have to of affected him, for him to be annoyed at how poor the whole process has been.

Still it would be nice to know that from the horses mouth. I’m sure he could answer for himself.

[CosbehFox]

Hold on Bozza, come on hold on. Tough it out. Another two years. You’ve got another election in you old chap. 

[Innovindil]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

My money is constantly going up due to engineer shortages. That’s due to the end of freedom of movement. 
 

What’s about brexit has affected you?

I'm with you. We've literally never had a better year than the last one. We've got British based companies literally begging us to set aside set amounts of man hours every month indefinitely even though we only ever work in 3 month order blocks. We've got a waitlist coming out of the ceiling even though we're increasing prices every quarter. We've taken on 2 new engineers across 3 brand new machines. And the staff got 3 payrises last year, which is unheard of, especially after the bumming we took having to shut during lockdown.

 

I reckon if this dogshit covid hadn't have happened, we'd be looking into buying up neighbouring buildings and expanding. We're at full capacity now without making a dent it seems.

[WigstonWanderer]

8 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

I'm with you. We've literally never had a better year than the last one. We've got British based companies literally begging us to set aside set amounts of man hours every month indefinitely even though we only ever work in 3 month order blocks. We've got a waitlist coming out of the ceiling even though we're increasing prices every quarter. We've taken on 2 new engineers across 3 brand new machines. And the staff got 3 payrises last year, which is unheard of, especially after the bumming we took having to shut during lockdown.

 

I reckon if this dogshit covid hadn't have happened, we'd be looking into buying up neighbouring buildings and expanding. We're at full capacity now without making a dent it seems.

Tis an ill wind….

[Sly]

5 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Tis an ill wind….

It’s the elephant in the rooms really, as to when this bubble will burst. 

 

The cost inflation on large projects may actually start to grind some construction projects to a hold, especially as things like the rising cost of energy take hold.

 

I think covid has had a part to play in this as people have looked at alternative housing, so it has driven the housing market coupled with the governments tax free incentives that ended last year. I wonder how many business will now want employs back in the office with this weeks announcement.

 

All this internal fighting that is currently dominating the agenda and we don’t have issues being address like this and the Ukraine / Russia situation which could quickly escalate. 

 

 

 

[Tommy Fresh]

2 hours ago, Sly said:

It’s the elephant in the rooms really, as to when this bubble will burst. 

 

The cost inflation on large projects may actually start to grind some construction projects to a hold, especially as things like the rising cost of energy take hold.

 

I think covid has had a part to play in this as people have looked at alternative housing, so it has driven the housing market coupled with the governments tax free incentives that ended last year. I wonder how many business will now want employs back in the office with this weeks announcement.

 

All this internal fighting that is currently dominating the agenda and we don’t have issues being address like this and the Ukraine / Russia situation which could quickly escalate. 

 

 

 

Think we showed last time it happened that bar some economic sanctions we won't get involved.

[Tommy Fresh]

9 hours ago, Strokes said:

Still it would be nice to know that from the horses mouth. I’m sure he could answer for himself.

I'm sure he can, but I had a point on what you'd said so..

[Finnegan]

10 hours ago, Strokes said:

Political lines got drawn by brexit, they are beginning to fade. If people want to redraw them, it’s up to them.

 

 

I'm sorry pal but this isn't even vaguely close to the truth in either sense. 

 

Political lines weren't drawn by brexit, brexit was made by political lines. 

 

Entrenched concepts of "The Right" and "The Left" have been enforced by social media since its inception and have turned 21st century politics in to two opposing teams throwing shit at each other and refusing to cooperate. 

 

Brexit was just one more issue on a long list from Palestine to Trans Rights, from Abortion to COVID. 

 

The majority who backed brexit did so largely by virtue of being right wing and either having populist sentiment smashed in to them by the tabloids or by picking it up in self selected echo chambers on socal media platforms. 

 

And the remain vote wasn't largely different, most people didn't fully grasp the exact fiscal implications they just voted based on what their "side" was largely doing. 

 

We're pitted off against each other in the most obvious, transparent, age old divide and conquer and those "lines" haven't faded in the slightest, they're getting thicker and thicker every year, perpetuated by Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and all. 

[Dunge]

I’m still pro-Brexit. It’ll be interesting to see whether that argument re-emerges once Boris gets the boot, and whether there ends up being a serious push to rejoin. It’s likely strongly in Labour’s interest that there isn’t, that the country moves on. Because that split opening back up again will only push people back to the Conservatives.

 

For my part, one of the worst things about voting Brexit was the people at the top who were backing it. I wanted it to happen but be run by competent and moderate people. Yet those very people were refusing to do so, some demanding the vote be re-run or overturned. I guess some might ask why didn’t I listen to the people I respected more. I’d say I’ve always followed my own path.

 

Regardless, there’s a number of people at the top of the Conservatives that I’m done with now. They’ve had their chance and shown themselves incapable. If we can get some moderates in charge of one colour or another who can stick with something that they may not have voted for but can respect, determined to make it a success by thinking wider than Europe and taking advantage of the increased flexibility the UK has from its leaving - specifically policies that put the country at the heart of a green/sustainability revolution - then that’ll be a course I’m happy with.

[Sly]

6 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m still pro-Brexit. It’ll be interesting to see whether that argument re-emerges once Boris gets the boot, and whether there ends up being a serious push to rejoin. It’s likely strongly in Labour’s interest that there isn’t, that the country moves on. Because that split opening back up again will only push people back to the Conservatives.

 

For my part, one of the worst things about voting Brexit was the people at the top who were backing it. I wanted it to happen but be run by competent and moderate people. Yet those very people were refusing to do so, some demanding the vote be re-run or overturned. I guess some might ask why didn’t I listen to the people I respected more. I’d say I’ve always followed my own path.

 

Regardless, there’s a number of people at the top of the Conservatives that I’m done with now. They’ve had their chance and shown themselves incapable. If we can get some moderates in charge of one colour or another who can stick with something that they may not have voted for but can respect, determined to make it a success by thinking wider than Europe and taking advantage of the increased flexibility the UK has from its leaving - specifically policies that put the country at the heart of a green/sustainability revolution - then that’ll be a course I’m happy with.

I think ultimately, even though I was against Brexit, I ultimately appreciated that it could work, albeit it painful at the beginning. 
 

The government to lead these negotiations was the wrong one from the start though. I think it will start to raise its head again, now we’re seemingly entering an endemic, as this is what will fill the news headlines. 
 

I agree on the sustainability approach though, it’s something that needs addressing, albeit the tactics employed by some of the protest groups I strongly disagree with. We just need a competent government that deals and reviews these issues, rather than have a dick swinging content against each other. 

[Footballwipe]

16 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

 

I actually agree with both these posts. My criticism of Labour was linked to the last general election. No way should this bafoon have ever come to power and part of the reason that he did was because the party were not in touch with their electorate. I’m sorry, how did no one out of a large set of analysis not work out that Labour were at risk of losing the fooking red wall. 
 

No one expected Labour to win that election for years and that for a major party was an unacceptable approach. 
 

I see a lot more stars coming out of Labour now and hope for our sake they win back that support. Or we are left with PM Gove, Raab, Patel or some other horrible excuse.

 

You're right. It's all "Captain Hindsight" but it was genuinely baffling that anyone thought Corbyn would win in 2019. His loyalists and Twitter following seemed convinced, but as painful as it is personality and reputation rules. I'd love to know within the rational faction of the Labour Party how they felt going into that election and the inevitability of doom many probably had. It set them back at least four years. Add in the rise of an ever divided nation and getting a swing to turn a Lab majority I thought would be genuinely hard work, but this Government seem hell bent on ensuring it's easy.

 

6 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’m still pro-Brexit. It’ll be interesting to see whether that argument re-emerges once Boris gets the boot, and whether there ends up being a serious push to rejoin. It’s likely strongly in Labour’s interest that there isn’t, that the country moves on. Because that split opening back up again will only push people back to the Conservatives.

I can only see any EU rejoin attempt being made if this country was to suffer so adversely that we absolutely needed that bond again for the sake of the economy to stop utter destruction. Like you say any attempt would just surge Reform/Brexit Party/Conservative right in support and popularity.

 

What I can see (hope??) is any new regime in a Lab Govt working hard to have far more cordial relations with the EU. I think that's the best me (as a fervent remainer anyway) can hope for now. A thaw in the relationship to open things up slightly. Maybe we can agree on certain relaxations in travel within the EU, agreements on trade and imports. We'll see anyway. When they get round to firming up their plans for this country their positions on so many matters will be absolutely critical.

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I wanted it to happen but be run by competent and moderate people.

 

This frustrates the hell out of me, not gonna lie. 

 

Firstly, when you voted Brexit we all knew who would be in charge of delivering it. We knew who the hard-line Brexiteers were in the Tory party. If you needed to be told that Johnson and his Clique were incompetent that's on you. A vote for Brexit WAS a vote for THEM negotiating it. You weren't blind sided by that it was signposted in neon for years.

 

Secondly, with that said, the notion that Brexit is fine but the people that went to bat for us were the problem is just a Leave voters' fantasy to try and convince themselves they haven't done something stupid. You're just shifting blame from yourself "it's still a good idea, Boris is just incompetent!" no it was always a stupid idea because we were never, ever going to be negotiating from a position of strength when leaving such a massive bloc. 

 

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm sorry pal but this isn't even vaguely close to the truth in either sense. 

 

Political lines weren't drawn by brexit, brexit was made by political lines. 

 

Entrenched concepts of "The Right" and "The Left" have been enforced by social media since its inception and have turned 21st century politics in to two opposing teams throwing shit at each other and refusing to cooperate. 

 

Brexit was just one more issue on a long list from Palestine to Trans Rights, from Abortion to COVID. 

 

The majority who backed brexit did so largely by virtue of being right wing and either having populist sentiment smashed in to them by the tabloids or by picking it up in self selected echo chambers on socal media platforms. 

 

And the remain vote wasn't largely different, most people didn't fully grasp the exact fiscal implications they just voted based on what their "side" was largely doing. 

 

We're pitted off against each other in the most obvious, transparent, age old divide and conquer and those "lines" haven't faded in the slightest, they're getting thicker and thicker every year, perpetuated by Facebook, Twitter, Reddit and all. 

Well I massively disagree, when you’ve got people who have voted for one party all their lives, changing sides because of a single issue. I call that lines redrawn.

I won’t get into a debate with you over why it happened, it’s been done to absolute death on here but you can’t deny that areas on traditional voting colours changed?

[Finnegan]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

you can’t deny that areas on traditional voting colours changed

 

I'm not denying that, I'm saying that it predates Brexit and if you want more proof of that look further afield because its not a uniquely British thing. 

 

Right wing populist politics has been gaining a foothold in traditionally socialist, working class communities for a few decades now. What I'm saying is that that shift didn't happen because of Brexit, Brexit happened because of that shift. 

[Strokes]

Just now, Finnegan said:

 

I'm not denying that, I'm saying that it predates Brexit and if you want more proof of that look further afield because its not a uniquely British thing. 

 

Right wing populist politics has been gaining a foothold in traditionally socialist, working class communities for a few decades now. What I'm saying is that that shift didn't happen because of Brexit, Brexit happened because of that shift. 

Fair enough, I’m not sure I entirely agree but without looking into it in detail I don’t really have a basis to argue with you on it.

 

My original point in here still stands though, and I don’t think I’m likely to be alone. 
If Labour were to stand on a platform of reversing brexit, or probably even softening it at this stage, they would be handing Johnson a shot in the arm.

 

As supporters of Brexit we can move away from him and Tories, because it appears to be ‘let’s make the best of it’ approach. 

[SpacedX]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I'm not denying that, I'm saying that it predates Brexit and if you want more proof of that look further afield because its not a uniquely British thing. 

 

Right wing populist politics has been gaining a foothold in traditionally socialist, working class communities for a few decades now. What I'm saying is that that shift didn't happen because of Brexit, Brexit happened because of that shift. 

Precisely the momentum behind Donald Trump - in particular, the blue collar swing in the rust belt and parts of the midwest.

 

33 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

The majority who backed brexit did so largely by virtue of being right wing and either having populist sentiment smashed in to them by the tabloids or by picking it up in self selected echo chambers on socal media platforms. 

 

And yet, beyond the superficial populist appeal and sensationalism of the tabloid press, what you find is that that most compelling argument for leave was articulated by the left, whilst the case for remain most convincingly came from the right. 

 

 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

And yet, beyond the superficial populist appeal and sensationalism of the tabloid press, what you find is that that most compelling argument for leave was articulated by the left, whilst the case for remain most convincingly came from the right. 

 

 

I’ve mentioned this several times, I still can’t understand why it’s flipped in the way it has.

[SpacedX]

Just now, Strokes said:

I’ve mentioned this several times, I still can’t understand why it’s flipped in the way it has.

Because as Finnegan alludes to, the informed arguments were obfuscated and silenced by dishonest and disingenuous campaigns and populist appeal via social media and the tabloid press.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Fair enough, I’m not sure I entirely agree but without looking into it in detail I don’t really have a basis to argue with you on it.

 

My original point in here still stands though, and I don’t think I’m likely to be alone. 
If Labour were to stand on a platform of reversing brexit, or probably even softening it at this stage, they would be handing Johnson a shot in the arm.

 

As supporters of Brexit we can move away from him and Tories, because it appears to be ‘let’s make the best of it’ approach. 

 

I'm extremely confident that Labour's next election push will just be based primarily on the incompetence of Johnson's administration, both in terms of Brexit delivery and COVID handling. Its far too early to start talking about rejoining Europe, I highly doubt any mention of that will be anywhere near the manifesto. 

 

I think it's a distinct possibility that Brexit will eventually be reversed but two things will likely need to happen before then:

 

1. The negative effects of Brexit will REALLY need to be felt and without COVID as a potential excuse. 

 

2. My generation (who massively opposed Brexit) will need to hit middle age and the two generations behind us will need to hit consistent voting age.