Not The Politics Thread.

[Adrian]

3 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

I know you think you're being a free thinker with all this contrarian boot licking, but it's a bit like the free thought of the guy who gets his mates to shove a portaloo over with them inside it, there's a very good reason nobody else is doing it.

You've lost me a bit..firstly what is contrarian boot-licking?

[The whole world smiles]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I reckon they’ve got a similar problem to the Republicans in America. They know that their leader doesn’t fit with the traditional values of the party that they once stood for, but they also know that the internal polling suggests that those values alone aren’t playing so well in internal polling anymore and that said leader carries a weight of votes with him. They’re all afraid to pull the trigger because they’re afraid it’ll kill the party too. So they’re holding out and hoping the situation will resolve itself somehow, much like many Labour MPs (including their current leader) did with Corbyn.

 

Whether the tactic will prove correct remains to be seen. But in the meantime it’s hard to argue they don’t deserve the pelters they’re getting in articles like the one you’ve attached above.

Keir starmer along with 178 other mps put in a letter or no confidence in Corbyn before Owen Smith challenged corbyn for the leadership in 2016. he also resigned as shadow immigration minister along with about 30 other ministers. 

 

 You can accuse Labour mps of many things but loyalty to corbyn is certainly not one of them. They were just paralysed by the fact he had the support of the membership and by the fact he performed well electoraly in 2017.

[Dunge]

19 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

Keir starmer along with 178 other mps put in a letter or no confidence in Corbyn before Owen Smith challenged corbyn for the leadership in 2016. he also resigned as shadow immigration minister along with about 30 other ministers. 

 

 You can accuse Labour mps of many things but loyalty to corbyn is certainly not one of them. They were just paralysed by the fact he had the support of the membership and by the fact he performed well electoraly in 2017.

That is kind of what I’m saying. Similarly, we don’t know who’s put in what to the 1922 committee and who’s declared No Confidence in the PM, only that there aren’t enough of them yet. Starmer went on to serve in Corbyn’s shadow cabinet. His actions since becoming leader suggest that he didn’t agree with him and was actually waiting for the opportunity to make big changes to the party from a position of power. And don’t get me wrong for a moment here - I’m glad he has. He’s made Labour electable again, in my eyes at least. I like what I’ve seen of him.

 

I don’t think there’s much doubt that Theresa May, Jeremy Hunt and others would not be crying into the cereal bowls at a morning announcement that Boris was going, by hook or by crook. But the culture under Boris’s leadership has evidently become so toxic that moderate MPs are being threatened behind the scenes. We know one account of someone saying he wouldn’t get a new school for his constituency if he didn’t vote with the government. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if others were being threatened we deselection like some Labour MPs were under Corbyn. Boris has already shown a willingness to withdraw the whip, although he got something of a pass for that because of the parliamentary shenanigans over Brexit; I’m sure people internally wouldn’t put it past him to do it again as part of “Operation Save Big Dog”, particularly if it becomes more than just isolated voices like David Davies. I’m thinking that maybe there’s a number of them biding their time, not rattling too many cages and hoping the current cabinet destroy themselves so that they can slide into the probably-Sunak-led vacuum without too much opposition from Rees-Mogg and co. The idea being: If you kick them out, they can claim they didn’t have the time or the backing. If you watch them fail, they can have no arguments. I think they might be playing a quiet, long game here. The problem is that, in doing so, Boris is actively damaging the very station of Prime Minister, often on a daily basis.

 

Edited 29 January 2022 by Dunge

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, Adrian said:

You've lost me a bit..firstly what is contrarian boot-licking?

I know it's a bit of an oxymoron but I see no better way to describe defending this lot to stick it to the 'do-gooders' as you call them.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

[Sly]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

I’m hoping this disaster class is getting close to the end now. 

[st albans fox]

7 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

 

Women is one of the few things that boris doesn’t delegate …….

[Unabomber]

22 hours ago, Adrian said:

I think the public or at least the vocal dogooders have a large influence on the rules made by government..then when those rules are proved not perfect they pretend it's someone else's fault 

You’re trying to blame the public for this inept corrupt government? 

[Voll Blau]

4 minutes ago, Unabomber said:

You’re trying to blame the public for this inept corrupt government? 

No, just the portion of the public that never actually voted for this government. 

[Unabomber]

Just now, Voll Blau said:

No, just the portion of the public that never actually voted for this government. 

Blows my mind that some people have this blind loyalty to these. How can they not see how ****ed up they and the situation are. 

[HighPeakFox]

Just now, Unabomber said:

Blows my mind that some people have this blind loyalty to these. How can they not see how ****ed up they and the situation are. 

I've posited my theory elsewhere - they see a kindred spirit and therefore take offence by proxy at the slightest criticism.

[Adrian]

I have no allegiance to conservative government..I voted labour for most of my adult life. I'm not contrary for the sake of it or ..I just have a different take on things I suppose 

[Facecloth]

19 minutes ago, Adrian said:

I have no allegiance to conservative government..I voted labour for most of my adult life. I'm not contrary for the sake of it or ..I just have a different take on things I suppose 

Sometimes being an outlier is absolutely fine and despite what everyone says you're right and they are all wrong, and sometimes you have to step back, realise why everyone thinks the total opposite to you and think "Am I talking out my arse here?" 

 

I'd politely suggest you're in second category.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

 

I'd politely suggest you're in second category.

You’ve changed.

[CosbehFox]

Judging from how Boris seems to take on his wife’s views more than his own advisors/ministers…his inevitable affair is going to be quite something 

[Facecloth]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

You’ve changed.

Too many bans, I have to limit my use of calling people ***** to the ones who really deserve it 

[Farrington fox]

On 28/01/2022 at 15:40, HighPeakFox said:

I've said it before, I'll say it again. This has been coming all my lifetime, the Tory party has always itched to get further right and be above the law. 

 

If you vote for this lot, it doesn't make you as bad as them, but I'd really advise long contemplation over your quality of thought process and decision making. 

When you say "this lot" is that reference to Johnson and his current front bench, or the Conservative party?

[Strokes]

1 hour ago, Facecloth said:

Too many bans, I have to limit my use of calling people ***** to the ones who really deserve it 

Challenge accepted.

[Facecloth]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Challenge accepted.

Not much of a challenge for you 

[HighPeakFox]

1 hour ago, Farrington fox said:

When you say "this lot" is that reference to Johnson and his current front bench, or the Conservative party?

Well, specifically this appalling bunch of shysters, but the first sentence tells you that this is a rot in the Tory party that has been a long time coming, and you may disagree of course. However, carry on voting for this and it will only get worse, more extreme, and less accountable to any democratic processes, in my opinion.

[pSinatra]

37 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Well, specifically this appalling bunch of shysters, but the first sentence tells you that this is a rot in the Tory party that has been a long time coming, and you may disagree of course. However, carry on voting for this and it will only get worse, more extreme, and less accountable to any democratic processes, in my opinion.

There's currently 359 Conservative MPs in government. The 1922 Committee need 54 letters for a leadership challenge. 

 

I've heard different numbers for letters already going in to the 1922 Committee, but nowhere near 54. It's barely into double figures.

 

You are right to use the terms "this lot". In fact. You're being too kind.

[Strokes]

2 hours ago, pSinatra said:

There's currently 359 Conservative MPs in government. The 1922 Committee need 54 letters for a leadership challenge. 

 

I've heard different numbers for letters already going in to the 1922 Committee, but nowhere near 54. It's barely into double figures.

 

You are right to use the terms "this lot". In fact. You're being too kind.

The fact that the whole party are completely spineless in removing this confidence trickster, tells us all we need to know about how fit the party is to be anywhere near power.

They deserve to spend generations in the doldrums if they genuinely think they can wriggle out of responsibility for it all.

[nnfox]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

The fact that the whole party are completely spineless in removing this confidence trickster, tells us all we need to know about how fit the party is to be anywhere near power.

They deserve to spend generations in the doldrums if they genuinely think they can wriggle out of responsibility for it all.

To play devil's advocate here a little, from what I have seen of politicians, an overwhelming majority of them (on both sides) appear to never make their position clear on anything, always ready to side step any question and avoid responsibility on most issues or decisions. 

 

I would think that most tory MPs are privately as outraged as the public about what's been going on.  With stories about blackmail and local funding being withheld if an MP doesn't vote a certain way, I can understand why some back benchers are hesitant.  This is, of course, in the context that there has been an inquiry and now a police investigation, the results of which would surely make Johnson's position untenable.  Give it a couple of weeks and the man might go on his own, so no need to "rock the boat".

 

I don't think they'll wait too long, because the damage it will do to the party will need to be repaired and it's all causing too much distraction from actually governing the country. 

 

I honestly believe that Johnson is toast and he won't be around by the time March comes around.

 

MPs pulling the trigger on a vote of no confidence is probably something that will happen if he doesn't resign following the publication of the Gray report, or nothing comes of the police investigation, or the police investigation appears to be taking too much time.

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, pSinatra said:

There's currently 359 Conservative MPs in government. The 1922 Committee need 54 letters for a leadership challenge. 

 

I've heard different numbers for letters already going in to the 1922 Committee, but nowhere near 54. It's barely into double figures.

 

You are right to use the terms "this lot". In fact. You're being too kind.

I've had enough bans to know which side my bread is buttered.

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, nnfox said:

To play devil's advocate here a little, from what I have seen of politicians, an overwhelming majority of them (on both sides) appear to never make their position clear on anything, always ready to side step any question and avoid responsibility on most issues or decisions. 

 

I would think that most tory MPs are privately as outraged as the public about what's been going on.  With stories about blackmail and local funding being withheld if an MP doesn't vote a certain way, I can understand why some back benchers are hesitant.  This is, of course, in the context that there has been an inquiry and now a police investigation, the results of which would surely make Johnson's position untenable.  Give it a couple of weeks and the man might go on his own, so no need to "rock the boat".

 

I don't think they'll wait too long, because the damage it will do to the party will need to be repaired and it's all causing too much distraction from actually governing the country. 

 

I honestly believe that Johnson is toast and he won't be around by the time March comes around.

 

MPs pulling the trigger on a vote of no confidence is probably something that will happen if he doesn't resign following the publication of the Gray report, or nothing comes of the police investigation, or the police investigation appears to be taking too much time.

I’m sorry but they are standing at elections with the mandate to make decisions for the country, if they can’t see that this man needs to go asap, then they aren’t fit for purpose.

It will take some doing to restore any sort of respect in them, the longer they hang on.