Not The Politics Thread.

[Voll Blau]

23 minutes ago, NasPb said:

Labour are again a social liberal party, they won't ever touch power again if they're just tories lite, no matter how corrupt and weak the Tories are. And i dislike the Tories more than anyone but you beat these lot with strong conviction and actual policies. Labour took way too long to even call for boris to resign.  No leader is perfect but starmer is absolutely awful. His policies show no ambition like when he falls into talking about tax breaks instead of actual public spending on the most necessary things in society. 

 

It's funny, now a days an actual keynesian social democratic party and policies are considered radical. When you let the right wing dictate everything since thatcher and later blair then there's no surprise we are where we are. Whether it's with brexit or economic policies. Simple as that. 

The only thing I can see Labour doing on those topics at the moment is calling for an end to tax breaks in order to spend that money on helping people with their energy bills? A pretty necessary thing in the current climate...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-bankers-tax-cut-sunak-b2005333.html

 

Plus, Labour have unveiled quite a few policies in the past year. Baffles me that people are expecting a full-on manifesto that Johnson (or whoever, hopefully not him) can just undercut in the next two years with some flimsy promise of their own.

[Strokes]

14 minutes ago, rachhere said:

I will openly say I have voted Conservatives in the past. How anyone could begin to support THIS Tory government right now is beyond my comprehension. 

I’ve made no secrets of my voting history or opinions on here but I absolutely agree, they are a complete shambles from top to bottom and no change of leadership will sort this out.

 

[EnderbyFox]

17 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Well...come April we'll have...

 

NI increase

Council tax increase

FIFTY FOUR PERCENT energy price increase

Interest increase

 

All the effort to "save Pret" and there'll be no fuching Pret to save because everyone is freezing to death.

 

All this whilst the top 1% have had their wealth doubled during the Pandemic.. 

 

But a wealth tax isn't the answer is it? Let's just raise NI and let the majority suffer. 

 

The working class voted these lot in and are now reaping the benefits.

[Number 6]

3 hours ago, Bert said:

If I went to vote labour my constituency would still be Labour. If I went to vote Conservative my constituency would be still be Labour. If I went to vote Lib Dem. My constituency would still be Labour.

This is key, and true for many of us (and these feelings are completely understandable). In the Rutland & Melton constituency whatever I vote for will end up being Tory anyway. It is so so important that we get proportional representation implemented as soon as possible. I get the reasons for local MPs representing their constituency being useful, but we have moved past that now and too many votes are just wasted. I didn't even realise until the last change that people in the speaker's constituency basically don't get to vote! It's a ridiculous system.

 

I have actually changed my view on voting being compulsory too. It shouldn't be possible for governments to ignore large sections of the public because they don't tend to turn out. It just isn't right and means it becomes strategy to disenfranchise segments (e.g voter ID). Implement PR and make it compulsory to vote (public holiday to do so) so that the house genuinely represents all people of the country.

[rachhere]

1 minute ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

All this whilst the top 1% have had their wealth doubled during the Pandemic.. 

 

But a wealth tax isn't the answer is it? Let's just raise NI and let the majority suffer. 

 

The working class voted these lot in and are now reaping the benefits.

This is it for me. Such weak leadership, always looking for the easiest solution. 

[Mickyblueeyes]

MP Vauxhall just asked a sensible question. A £700 increase minimum for a low income household and especially those struggling now, is ridiculous to contemplate. How are they going to deal with it. 
 

Sunak whose father in law gave him a job in return for him making an honest women of his daughter - they’ll get £150 back. 

[Zear0]

4 minutes ago, Mickyblueeyes said:

MP Vauxhall just asked a sensible question. A £700 increase minimum for a low income household and especially those struggling now, is ridiculous to contemplate. How are they going to deal with it. 
 

Sunak whose father in law gave him a job in return for him making an honest women of his daughter - they’ll get £150 back. 

Yeah but don't forgetting Brexit, the vaccine rollout programme and whatever else the prat waffled on about during his statement.  The warmth from those towering achievements of the current government will keep families toasty at night.

Edited 3 February 2022 by Zear0

[The Syrup]

BoE just raised interest rates at well... up 0.25%

[FLAN]

31 minutes ago, rachhere said:

This is it for me. Such weak leadership, always looking for the easiest solution. 

It’s isn’t the easiest. It’s the best for them

[Dahnsouff]

36 minutes ago, EnderbyFox said:

 

All this whilst the top 1% have had their wealth doubled during the Pandemic.. 

 

But a wealth tax isn't the answer is it? Let's just raise NI and let the majority suffer. 

 

The working class voted these lot in and are now reaping the benefits.

Put NI on a sliding scale and don’t cap it at 50k ffs, make those who make the most, give the most, but also fgs, don’t deincentivise people from being entrepreneurial, just make them pay their fair share.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

52 minutes ago, NasPb said:

Regardless took them way too long 

Because you didn't see the video? Would you have liked them to call for a resign before the evidence?

[urban.spaceman]

 

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

He definitely has ......

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Because you didn't see the video? Would you have liked them to call for a resign before the evidence?

Nah but they took too long with it... 

[Facecloth]

1 hour ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Because you didn't see the video? Would you have liked them to call for a resign before the evidence?

Nah its because for some nothing he does is ever right. Had he gone earlier he would have been criticised for jumping the gun and playing politics. And if the evidence never came to light he would have looked a fool. He had to wait for Boris to make a idiot of himself and lie first, but thats nit enough for some.

[Voll Blau]

4 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Nah its because for some nothing he does is ever right. Had he gone earlier he would have been criticised for jumping the gun and playing politics. And if the evidence never came to light he would have looked a fool. He had to wait for Boris to make a idiot of himself and lie first, but thats nit enough for some.

It's dead weird to me that people don't take it as a given that the Leader of the Opposition wants the person stood opposite them to be out of a job anyway. There's no need to publicly call for their resignation except in extreme circumstances like this one because the public already know that's what you want to happen.

[SpacedX]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Please clarify briefly, if you can. 

 

Brevity - not one of my stronger points. 

 

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

Heath was PM between when I was 8 and when I was 12, so I don't remember his regime too well - and I'm one of the older posters. 

Understand this is not to do with the many allegations of pedophilia which were unsubstantiated and neither innocence or guilt established due to the absence of evidence. 

 

He will be remembered for the decimalisation of the UK currency and steering the country into the Common Market, but his aloof and enigmatic leadership style bred a contemptuous rank of tory indiscipline and I would suggest, ushered in the unscrupulous era of sleaze that we have come to associate with the party. As Britain currently grapples with soaring utility prices and an energy supply crisis, even Kwasi Kwarteng derisorily recently referred to Heath's administration in pledging that there's 'no question of the lights going out'. Because actually - that's what really happened during his watch. 

 

His first term is best remembered today for "stagflation", three-day working weeks, an increasingly precarious Union, in party dissent, the 'Winter of Discontent' and regular declarations of a state of emergencies. Ushering the UK into European Economic Community in 1973 came at huge cost and concessions. For example, membership of the EEC was contingent upon equal access to fishing waters. Norway were also in the process of applying at the time and their fisheries minister resigned in protest at the request, whilst the Norwegians ultimately voted against joining the EU because of this. Heath was advised that such a move could lead to mass redundancies - particularly amongst the Scottish fishing industry, but the decision was taken to go ahead as it was believed the wider benefits of membership would outweigh the negatives for the fishing community - and actually, out of vanity and stubborn pride. It resulted in half of them losing their jobs and much as Thatcher was remembered for sacrificing and abandoning the mining communities, his name is still a byword for betrayal in the fishing industry. The UK agreed to a policy that was so detrimental to her interests because of Heath's opportunism, dogged determination for talks to succeed meaning that he was prepared to pay any price for accession. And he did.

 

In spite of this, like Boris Johnson, his underlying political convictions were weak, superficial and buckled when challenged. Promises of lavish spending failed to materialise, unsettled the backbenchers alongside the directionless leadership, and when fiscal constraints inevitably forced the treasury to tighten its purse strings, any gains were rapidly reversed together with any hope of unity in the party. Moreover, much like today, the ideological vacuum leaves a yawning chasm which has rapidly been populated by the imbalance of organised leftist politics. A deteriorating domestic situation was compounded by a European agenda which haunted the party up until the 2016 referendum and beyond. People voted for the Conservatives in the 2019 election with the assured pledge that they would be a safe choice to chart Britain through the uncertain stormy socioeconomic and political waters of separation from the EU, yet the reality is uncomfortably reminiscent to that of the Heath premiership. In the absence of strong convictions, he could not instill confidence from his colleagues and his voters nor inspire a vision which could carry them through uncertainty, and the country was severely punished for it.

 

Did he lie to parliament? Unlike Johnson, not directly, but he grew very wealthy through insider deals that favoured privileged investors at the expense of public shareholders. As an MP, he subsequently enjoyed fees, expenses and gifts on top of his parliamentary salary yet made no mention of the jobs in the latest Commons Register, despite the requirement for politicians to disclose any "remunerated employment" outside Parliament. You could argue that this is hard wired in the DNA of any card carrying tory - but actually, for every self-serving Geoffrey Cox, Douglas Moss or Jacob Rees-Mogg there is encouragingly, one Mark Harper. 

 

The parallels are clear. Heath's premiership was one of the most immoral, traumatic and controversial in recent political history. For both the current PM and Edward Heath, the arguments that the climate was too inclement, or that an alternative to the U-turns was not available, cannot withstand serious analysis. In spite of his nautical posturing, like today, Heath's premiership was a dishonest rudderless ship, characterised by the threat of mutiny a scuppered fishing industry and policies that were all at sea.  

 

Police enquiries? - again, unlike Johnson, he wasn't around to answer to the Met, but had he been then he would have been interviewed under caution in relation to seven out of forty two allegations. 

 

 

Edited 3 February 2022 by Line-X

[Górnik Leicester]

Rishi Sunak has announced that all domestic electricity customers will receive a £200 "discount" on their bills. People will then have 5 years to pay back that discount.

 

He's a banker in charge of the fvking Treasury, and he's now forcing loans - packaged as "discounts", in order to trick people -  upon the poorest in our society in an attempt to kick the can down the road.

 

What happens next year, when bills are still high, and people need another £200 discount to be able to heat their homes? Another "discount"?

 

All the while, some energy companies are still paying out record bonuses to shareholders. Effectively, the public are being forced to subsidise those bonuses.

 

Edited 3 February 2022 by Górnik Leicester

[Carl the Llama]

Can we get these adults in charge of the country now?

[Matt_Lcfc]

The new data released from the Bank of England is frightening and is almost certainly a product of lockdown. I am sure that people will try and attribute it to Brexit, which to be fair will have had an impact but the constant shutting down of the economy has clearly had a huge impact. Shutting down a productive economy, demobilizing a workforce and then counteracting this through unaffordable schemes such as furlough and eat out to help out will be devastating in the long term. Simply, this was a fundamental reason as to why I was 'anti-lockdown,' it was not because I was selfish but more because I was concerned about how this would drag so many people below the poverty line.

[Matt_Lcfc]

7 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Can we get these adults in charge of the country now?

It really is utter nonsense that MPs are claiming £3500 in energy and then raising taxes to counteract the rise.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

The new data released from the Bank of England is frightening and is almost certainly a product of lockdown. I am sure that people will try and attribute it to Brexit, which to be fair will have had an impact but the constant shutting down of the economy has clearly had a huge impact. Shutting down a productive economy, demobilizing a workforce and then counteracting this through unaffordable schemes such as furlough and eat out to help out will be devastating in the long term. Simply, this was a fundamental reason as to why I was 'anti-lockdown,' it was not because I was selfish but more because I was concerned about how this would drag so many people below the poverty line.

Yes.

 

The problem was, there was, and is, a respiratory virus that nearly caused the collapse of UK healthcare infrastructure and all the associated social and economic upheaval even with such stringent measures taken to counteract it. Imagine, for a moment, how much damage it would have done, had lockdown not been used as a measure.

 

As much as money is important to us, nature doesn't care about it and will enthusiastically get in the way. Perhaps humanity ought to note that lesson for future reference as the next crisis might not be so (relatively) small. In fact, it almost certainly won't be.

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

Shock.

[urban.spaceman]

23 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

The new data released from the Bank of England is frightening and is almost certainly a product of lockdown. I am sure that people will try and attribute it to Brexit, which to be fair will have had an impact but the constant shutting down of the economy has clearly had a huge impact. Shutting down a productive economy, demobilizing a workforce and then counteracting this through unaffordable schemes such as furlough and eat out to help out will be devastating in the long term. Simply, this was a fundamental reason as to why I was 'anti-lockdown,' it was not because I was selfish but more because I was concerned about how this would drag so many people below the poverty line.

We should have locked down sooner. And we would have been out of it sooner. Their reaction to COVID was disgraceful and has caused every problem since. Their dithering and delaying, and not taking this seriously enough, has cost a lot of lives, a lot of loved ones and a lot of money.

[LVFox]

Maybe someone more knowledgable than me can help....but why are the government raising NI to then give out quite a blanket wide state support with the Council Tax reduction & £200 energy loan.

 

Wouldn't it be better to just raise universal credit back up, cancel the NI rise & cut VAT on fuel?