ajthefox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: ****ing hell I bet that blokes name is Tarquin. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 The result of the Southend West By Election shows that apathy won as it invariably does in between General Elections. To win the seat with just 12.7K votes out of a total electorate of 66.4K is petty abysmal. Ironically the second highest vote recorded was by those who spoilt their ballot papers, that says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionator Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: The gas price is global - nothing to do with our winter temps. Europe as a whole has not had a cold winter thus far. parts of the n America have but not excessively so. He’s talking tosh …… Why not ? As long as they lay their taxes I don’t see the problem. there was a report last week listing the highest tax payers in the country last year …… didn’t get much publicity compared to the stuff about those that don’t pay their share. We should celebrate high tax payers. Many of them bring in earning from overseas than then pay tax here on that income/capital gain. as already mentioned, you may need to check out the history of ‘pauper’ dickie B I think it’s an ethical and moral argument. I simply cannot stand the thought of somebody sitting there with hundreds of millions of pounds hoarded while those around me struggle to make ends meet despite working a full time job. There are also more than enough loopholes to ensure that the highest earners in this country do not pay the level of tax that they should do. The top 1% pay 30% of income in tax, personally and morally, billionaires should be taxed at least 50% of their income. Right now we live in a country where the financial systems benefit the rich more than anybody else. It is not communist or even socialist to challenge that. The French and Germans for example go a lot harder on high earners and have much more adequate public services than we do. In France especially, the workers don’t appreciate being trampled on by the rich, hence they act and the government more than often not, act. Edited 4 February 2022 by Lionator 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voll Blau Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 7 minutes ago, David Hankey said: The result of the Southend West By Election shows that apathy won as it invariably does in between General Elections. To win the seat with just 12.7K votes out of a total electorate of 66.4K is petty abysmal. Ironically the second highest vote recorded was by those who spoilt their ballot papers, that says it all. Well, there really wasn't any point in voting unless you were going to vote Tory given none of the main rival parties stood out of respect for David Amess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 27 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said: ****ing hell I wondered where those banned from the COVID thread ended up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 (edited) 23 minutes ago, David Hankey said: The result of the Southend West By Election shows that apathy won as it invariably does in between General Elections. To win the seat with just 12.7K votes out of a total electorate of 66.4K is petty abysmal. Ironically the second highest vote recorded was by those who spoilt their ballot papers, that says it all. Labour and Lib Dems didn’t contest the seat ….. Any attempt by the main parties to use the by election to make a wider political statement would have been seen as an insult to the memory of the murdered MP. Edited 4 February 2022 by st albans fox 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pSinatra Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 18 minutes ago, Lionator said: I think it’s an ethical and moral argument. I simply cannot stand the thought of somebody sitting there with hundreds of millions of pounds hoarded while those around me struggle to make ends meet despite working a full time job. There are also more than enough loopholes to ensure that the highest earners in this country do not pay the level of tax that they should do. The top 1% pay 30% of income in tax, personally and morally, billionaires should be taxed at least 50% of their income. Right now we live in a country where the financial systems benefit the rich more than anybody else. It is not communist or even socialist to challenge that. The French and Germans for example go a lot harder on high earners and have much more adequate public services than we do. In France especially, the workers don’t appreciate being trampled on by the rich, hence they act and the government more than often not, act. The tax rate is 45% for a billionaire on income. so the argument is about whether they pay their taxes or not. The coats family paid over £500m in tax last year …..your request that the super rich pay 50% in income tax isn’t far from the truth - it isn’t that easy to avoid large sums of tax any more. You need a pretty sophisticated set up. And the revenue know who all the billionaires are ………if you chase people too hard or make them pay too much then those with the wherewithal may choose to live elsewhere and that’s not going to help the crown tax take ….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, st albans fox said: The gas price is global - nothing to do with our winter temps. Europe as a whole has not had a cold winter thus far. parts of the n America have but not excessively so. He’s talking tosh …… Why not ? As long as they lay their taxes I don’t see the problem. there was a report last week listing the highest tax payers in the country last year …… didn’t get much publicity compared to the stuff about those that don’t pay their share. We should celebrate high tax payers. Many of them bring in earning from overseas than then pay tax here on that income/capital gain. as already mentioned, you may need to check out the history of ‘pauper’ dickie B Beyond a certain amount of wealth, it isn’t a matter of having a comfortable lifestyle, it is a matter of having too much power. I have no issue with people becoming rich, perhaps those who have a brilliant new innovation, or who have worked particularly hard to build a business, or who are at the top of their profession or sport. But at some point, perhaps 50m, 100m or maybe 500m, a rich individual attains baronial levels of economic and political power. This allows them to game the system, to buy political influence and indeed corrupt politicians, to spread misinformation and disinformation through ownership of media and so to undermine democracy, to manipulate and distort markets in their favour, and to generally bully anyone who gets in their way. They can easily avoid the taxes you praise through clever international tax arrangements and by moving capital around. Why any ordinary person would want this is beyond me, but unfortunately this appears to be the actual world we live in. Edited 4 February 2022 by WigstonWanderer 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunge Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said: ****ing hell Well, he may be a quote-unquote Expert in some sciencey type thing, but let me tell you: I have a degree in thinking about stuff, and the stuff I’ve been thinking about… Whoa-ho-hoa, let me tell you… That’s a whole lot of bad right there, it’s all in this dossier I have here, somewhere, if I can find it… Anyway, long story short, vaccines are evil. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicsmac Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 3 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said: Beyond a certain amount of wealth, it isn’t a matter of having a comfortable lifestyle, it is a matter of having too much power. I have no issue with people becoming rich, perhaps those who have a brilliant new innovation, or who have worked particularly hard to build a business, or who are at the top of their profession or sport. But at some point, perhaps 50m, 100m or maybe 500m, a rich individual attains baronial levels of economic and political power. This allows them to game the system, to buy political influence and indeed corrupt politicians, to spread misinformation and disinformation through ownership of media and so to undermine democracy, to manipulate and distort markets in their favour, and to generally bully anyone who gets in their way. They can easily avoid the taxes you praise through clever international tax arrangements and by moving capital around. Why any ordinary person would want this is beyond me, but unfortunately this appears to be the actual world we live in. Because some humans are wedded to the idea of hierarchy rather than egalitarianism. Even if such a belief dooms them and (in time) a great many other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pSinatra Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 3 hours ago, BenTheFox said: I've had this argument with my dad before. His point was essentially "but people need aspirations", which I ultimately agree with. However, it has to be within reason. I fundamentally believe in the concept of being able to make large sums of money through hard work and innovation, but just not at the expense of people not being able to eat or have a roof over their heads. I think people don't quite realise how much money £1billion really is. If you spent £1 every second, it would take 11.5 days to spend a million It would take over 31 years to spend a billion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WigstonWanderer Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, pSinatra said: If you spent £1 every second, it would take 11.5 days to spend a million It would take over 31 years to spend a billion Aye, and I wonder how long it will be before we get the worlds first trillionaire? Edited 4 February 2022 by WigstonWanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 3 minutes ago, pSinatra said: If you spent £1 every second, it would take 11.5 days to spend a million It would take over 31 years to spend a billion I have my own internal battles on the rights and wrongs of such individualistic wealth and I'm not even sure where I sit myself so won't comment on it. Regarding your point, I remember being taken by someone saying if you saved £10k per day since the pyramids were built (2450B.C), you'd still only have 1/5th of Bezos' wealth (at the time it was posted). It's mental to comprehend. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st albans fox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 36 minutes ago, Zear0 said: I have my own internal battles on the rights and wrongs of such individualistic wealth and I'm not even sure where I sit myself so won't comment on it. Regarding your point, I remember being taken by someone saying if you saved £10k per day since the pyramids were built (2450B.C), you'd still only have 1/5th of Bezos' wealth (at the time it was posted). It's mental to comprehend. On the subject of billionaires - are there many who actually have that money available. It’s generally made up of shareholdings which would, in reality, yield a lot less than the valuation if liquidated ….and of course, if they liquidate the valuation, they likely become liable for a big tax bill ….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnderbyFox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: ****ing hell 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zear0 Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 17 minutes ago, st albans fox said: On the subject of billionaires - are there many who actually have that money available. It’s generally made up of shareholdings which would, in reality, yield a lot less than the valuation if liquidated ….and of course, if they liquidate the valuation, they likely become liable for a big tax bill ….. Good example being Zuckerberg's $31bn "loss" yesterday. It's all paper money (silly phrase but you know what I mean!) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60255088 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 2 hours ago, urban.spaceman said: ****ing hell First question I'd be asking the BBC is 'Just what are this guy's political and financial associations'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Hankey Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 Well, I for one would like to be a billionaire just so I could exercise philanthropy skills!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajthefox Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 6 hours ago, pSinatra said: I enjoyed that video for a few minutes, it made me laugh. And then it reminded me of how sad and how frustrating it all is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperEadem Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 Our energy bill that came in today was sickening. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SecretPro Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 25 minutes ago, SemperEadem said: Our energy bill that came in today was sickening. Not looking forward to receiving mine, I must admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithweller Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 6 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said: Beyond a certain amount of wealth, it isn’t a matter of having a comfortable lifestyle, it is a matter of having too much power. I have no issue with people becoming rich, perhaps those who have a brilliant new innovation, or who have worked particularly hard to build a business, or who are at the top of their profession or sport. But at some point, perhaps 50m, 100m or maybe 500m, a rich individual attains baronial levels of economic and political power. This allows them to game the system, to buy political influence and indeed corrupt politicians, to spread misinformation and disinformation through ownership of media and so to undermine democracy, to manipulate and distort markets in their favour, and to generally bully anyone who gets in their way. They can easily avoid the taxes you praise through clever international tax arrangements and by moving capital around. Why any ordinary person would want this is beyond me, but unfortunately this appears to be the actual world we live in. I think you have absolutely nailed it here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urban.spaceman Posted 4 February 2022 Share Posted 4 February 2022 Is it weird that I'm desperate for allegations to break of an orgy at Downing Street? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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