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Buce

Not The Politics Thread.

By Buce, in General Chat

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted

 

There are some very, very choice words id like to say to this bloke. His use of expenses added to it. He’s got an utterly appalling track record in the company he keeps as well. 
 

The irony is of course, he moved from Poland at the age of 6 in 1973 to settle in the UK. Not short of money, they were able to put him straight into a public school education. Has he ever gone back to Poland and rebuilt his country? 

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Corky

Corky

Posted
Posted

I know it won't be as "easy" to get people out of this country with no land borders but we may, God forbid, be in this position in the future where we're under attack and people need to leave. If you offer real support and assistance those same people might help you out if the roles are reversed.

 

The lack of empathy is incredible from some.

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Jon the Hat

Jon the Hat

Posted
Posted

While the attempt to help Ukrainian refugees by the UK has been pathetic, comparing the number welcomed here to the numbers in Poland, Romania and Moldova is also pointless.  Comparisons to France and Spain would be more informative.

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Facecloth

Facecloth

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

There are some very, very choice words id like to say to this bloke. His use of expenses added to it. He’s got an utterly appalling track record in the company he keeps as well. 
 

The irony is of course, he moved from Poland at the age of 6 in 1973 to settle in the UK. Not short of money, they were able to put him straight into a public school education. Has he ever gone back to Poland and rebuilt his country? 

Tweet isn't loading, so I'm guessing it's deleted? But I'll take a wild stab you're talking about Daniel Kawczynski?

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Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's "immoral" to take in people fleeing for their lives, because they "will need" to rebuild some imaginary set of lines which may well be occupied by a foreign power... ?

That's one monumentally warped morality system I must say. Nationalism, the Nation State and some imaginary lines sure have a bizarre pull over some people's minds that makes even the most intelligent people have a sense of blind uncritical faith in the nation state system and that everyone must belong to a certain "tribe" and live inside a certain set of arbitrary lines.

Edited by Sampson
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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

It's "immoral" to take in people fleeing for their lives, becuase they "will need" to rebuild some imaginery set of lines which may well be occupied by a foreign power...

It doesn't even make sense. Nationalism, the Nation State and some imaginary lines sure have a bizarre pull over some people's minds that makes even the most intelligent people have a sense of blind uncritical faith in the nation state system.

Is this not more a case (Not excusing him, no idea of his past misdemeanours) of funds would be of the most use where the bulk of refugees go, rather than spending 10x more in the UK to help 10,000 refugees, whereas the same funds could help 100,000 refugees closer to the Ukraine (a place where higher numbers or refugees are likely to go after all)

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Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Is this not more a case (Not excusing him, no idea of his past misdemeanours) of funds would be of the most use where the bulk of refugees go, rather than spending 10x more in the UK to help 10,000 refugees, whereas the same funds could help 100,000 refugees closer to the Ukraine (a place where higher numbers or refugees are likely to go after all)


A flight from the UK to Ukraine probably costs about £50 if they want to go home in a few years.

 

It’s not going to be 10 times more expensive to house refugees in the UK than Poland. Poland isn’t the cheap Eastern European country it was 10 years ago, it’s not even going to be twice as much. Not to mention the economic 

 

Also there’s no way in hell the Tories  are actually going to be sending billions to Poland to build housing for Ukrainian refugees, Johnson and Patel have shown time and time again they don’t even care about Northern Ireland let alone Ukraine or Poland, we all know that.

 

But all that should be irrelevant anyway, if they would have a better life here than in Poland for family reasons or because they can’t speak Polish so can’t work or study there, then it’s our duty as human beings to take them in. Society won’t collapse if our population rises by a few hundred thousand or even a couple of million.

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sampson said:


A flight from the UK to Ukraine probably costs about £50 if they want to go home in a few years.

 

It’s not going to be 10 times more expensive to house refugees in the UK than Poland. Poland isn’t the cheap Eastern European country it was 10 years ago, it’s not even going to be twice as much. Not to mention the economic 

 

Also there’s no way in hell the Tories  are actually going to be sending billions to Poland to build housing for Ukrainian refugees, Johnson and Patel have shown time and time again they don’t even care about Northern Ireland let alone Ukraine or Poland, we all know that.

 

But all that should be irrelevant anyway, if they would have a better life here than in Poland for family reasons or because they can’t speak Polish so can’t work or study there, then it’s our duty as human beings to take them in. Society won’t collapse if our population rises by a few hundred thousand or even a couple of million.

I am not justifying it and nor am I trying to be a contrarian, but with the volume of refugees always likely to be higher the closer to the Ukraine you get, then it could argued that that is where the bulk of any funds should be funneled

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Sampson

Sampson

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I am not justifying it and nor am I trying to be a contrarian, but with the volume of refugees always likely to be higher the closer to the Ukraine you get, then it could argued that that is where the bulk of any funds should be funneled

And I’m sure you can agree that our government will likely not give £0.01 to Poland to help them shelter Ukrainian refugees while simultaneously setting up red-tape Byzantine burocracy to stop people coming in.

 

The system is working exactly as Patel and Johnson want it to work to keep the foreigners fleeing war out and make them go elsewhere.

 

His argument was just about not letting people in because they will need to go home and it’s closer btw. Nothing to do with Economics

Edited by Sampson
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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Sampson said:

And I’m sure you can agree that our government will likely not give £0.01 to Poland to help them shelter Ukrainian refugees while simultaneously setting up red-tape Byzantine burocracy to stop people coming in.

 

The system is working exactly as Patel and Johnson want it to work to keep the foreigners fleeing war out and make them go elsewhere.

 

His argument was just about not letting people in because they will need to go home and it’s closer btw. Nothing to do with Economics

If that was his argument, then yes, I agree with you.

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What the Fuchs?

What the Fuchs?

Posted
Posted

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ministers-drop-plan-to-cap-mps-second-job-earnings-after-sleaze-scandal-12568486
 

Bet the tories et al are rubbing their hands over the timing of the Ukraine crisis, able to wash their hands of a load of stuff without public scrutiny, like rowing back on anti corruption legislation, environmental legislation promised in the manifesto (no surprises that was a lie), partygate and of course the taxpayer paying for the royal family to evade justice over trafficking to name but a few. What a fantastic country we live in.

 

Every time I see the police brutalising protesters in Moscow (as in Hong Kong previously) and see MPs condemning it I can’t help but remember this government is still actively seeking to ban the universal right to peaceful protest!!

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What the Fuchs?

What the Fuchs?

Posted
Posted

Oh and that poor woman who was stuck in Iran for the past 6 years ostensibly due simply to the sheer incompetence of Johnson publicly contradicting her, was actually due to the government refusing to pay a debt it admits is legitimate. It should be a scandal of massive proportions, yet they’ve tried to spin it as a bit of good news. If I was her family I’d be suing the government in a heartbeat.

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blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, What the Fuchs? said:

Oh and that poor woman who was stuck in Iran for the past 6 years ostensibly due simply to the sheer incompetence of Johnson publicly contradicting her, was actually due to the government refusing to pay a debt it admits is legitimate. It should be a scandal of massive proportions, yet they’ve tried to spin it as a bit of good news. If I was her family I’d be suing the government in a heartbeat.

NZR was a pawn in a much wider political game. The UK also released an Iranian back to them. Successive governments have refused to pay the bill, each government of any colour could have changed that, they chose not to. You can easily argue that this govt chose to do the right thing finallly and go against previous govts to pay the debt, much as that may stick in your craw.

 

In reality, its more likely to be about securing oil from other places and rebuilding bridges with Iran to secure oil as a step towards securing future requirements if needed.

Edited by blabyboy
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blabyboy

blabyboy

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, What the Fuchs? said:

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ministers-drop-plan-to-cap-mps-second-job-earnings-after-sleaze-scandal-12568486
 

Bet the tories et al are rubbing their hands over the timing of the Ukraine crisis, able to wash their hands of a load of stuff without public scrutiny, like rowing back on anti corruption legislation, environmental legislation promised in the manifesto (no surprises that was a lie), partygate and of course the taxpayer paying for the royal family to evade justice over trafficking to name but a few. What a fantastic country we live in.

 

Every time I see the police brutalising protesters in Moscow (as in Hong Kong previously) and see MPs condemning it I can’t help but remember this government is still actively seeking to ban the universal right to peaceful protest!!

Just curious what your sources are here, especially the last one as the cost hasn't been revealed, only ballpark figures reported in the press and it was coming from Andrew himself (notionally borrowing from his mum). If we were to pay, it would be revealed in the Royal household accounts that come out later this year. Though, I highly doubt the taxpayer is on the hook for this as it would be very bad PRwise.

 

Secondly, you can only really judge a government over the full term of a parliament i.e. once they have completed it to be sure if how they performed against the manifesto offered.

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