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Buce

Not The Politics Thread.

By Buce, in General Chat

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Dr The Singh

Dr The Singh

Posted
Posted

This is why me being British, and my British passport means shit.  It's a shame the British government sells its peoples rights for trade deals.  

 

This is the reason, my kin and kind will leave the nation they love, myself have decided to move to Canada.

 

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19410761.jagtar-singh-johal-mps-fury-uk-government-failures/

 

 

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted

I'm pleased Labour managed a surprise hold - and delighted that Galloway failed to hand the seat to the Tories to oust Starmer - or worse still won, meaning his divisive demagoguery had MP status again.

 

I see he's now threatening legal action for unfair treatment the during campaign. I wonder who'll fund that? Wikipedia states that his "Workers' Party of Britain" has "strong links with the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)", who supply his deputy leader, so maybe they'll cough up? Or perhaps he's saved some of his wages as a TV presenter for Russian, Iranian & Syrian-backed or linked broadcasters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_Party_of_Britain#Political_positions     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway#Television_presenter

 

I chanced to hear Galloway speak at the big 2003 demo against the Iraq War. Even then, before he'd been expelled by Labour & when I was nominally on the same side over Iraq, his cynical demagoguery made me feel seriously uneasy.

 

When I heard that Labour had surprisingly held the seat, I was hoping that meant voters had turned away from Galloway....but no, he got 8000+ votes (22%).

So how come Labour held on despite a big vote for Galloway?

My educated guess....

- Kim Leadbeater got votes through being well-known locally (as a community campaigner, as she only joined Labour recently)

- Massive effort by Labour to get their vote out

- Greens didn't stand and LD vote was squeezed. Also, maybe some of the 6000+ who voted for the Independent in 2019 went Lab (the Ind was a well-known local ex-rugby league pro, though his "party leader" is ex-UKIP).

- Some Tory voters stayed at home, dissatisfied by lockdown extension and/or the Hancock fiasco

- Maybe a few potential Tory voters disillusioned with both Starmer & Johnson also voted Galloway

- Good to hear that some local Muslim women publicly disassociated themselves with those loudmouth Muslim men who backed Galloway, so hopefully that helped

- My impression (from national media) is that the Tory candidate, who wasn't local, kept a low profile, relying on Galloway taking Lab votes to hand him the seat

 

Lab still has a big hill to climb to get into contention for the next general election, but maybe Hartlepool will turn out to be their nadir and a slow recovery is now starting - especially if politics returns to semi-normality as Covid hopefully retreats? We'll also be getting into times when the Govt has tough, potentially unpopular decisions to take. Starmer will still need to up his game, but will hopefully now have at least until next year's local elections to show he can do that....

 

Particularly after losing Chesham, the Batley & Spen result is bad news for Johnson. Labour only just held on - but did so under very difficult circumstances due to Galloway specifically targeting their vote.

The fact that the Tory vote share also fell slightly should sound alarm bells for Bozza, given the popularity generated through vaccine success & the difficult decisions ahead.

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Voll Blau

Voll Blau

Posted
Posted

Probably worth noting as well that Batley and Spen was Tory from 1983 to 1997, so a Tory win should probably in theory have been easier to come by there than it was in Hartlepool. All sorts of factors as to why that wasn't the case of course, but still interesting I think.

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Dunge

Dunge

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I'm pleased Labour managed a surprise hold - and delighted that Galloway failed to hand the seat to the Tories to oust Starmer - or worse still won, meaning his divisive demagoguery had MP status again.

 

I see he's now threatening legal action for unfair treatment the during campaign. I wonder who'll fund that? Wikipedia states that his "Workers' Party of Britain" has "strong links with the Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)", who supply his deputy leader, so maybe they'll cough up? Or perhaps he's saved some of his wages as a TV presenter for Russian, Iranian & Syrian-backed or linked broadcasters?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers_Party_of_Britain#Political_positions     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Galloway#Television_presenter

 

I chanced to hear Galloway speak at the big 2003 demo against the Iraq War. Even then, before he'd been expelled by Labour & when I was nominally on the same side over Iraq, his cynical demagoguery made me feel seriously uneasy.

 

When I heard that Labour had surprisingly held the seat, I was hoping that meant voters had turned away from Galloway....but no, he got 8000+ votes (22%).

So how come Labour held on despite a big vote for Galloway?

My educated guess....

- Kim Leadbeater got votes through being well-known locally (as a community campaigner, as she only joined Labour recently)

- Massive effort by Labour to get their vote out

- Greens didn't stand and LD vote was squeezed. Also, maybe some of the 6000+ who voted for the Independent in 2019 went Lab (the Ind was a well-known local ex-rugby league pro, though his "party leader" is ex-UKIP).

- Some Tory voters stayed at home, dissatisfied by lockdown extension and/or the Hancock fiasco

- Maybe a few potential Tory voters disillusioned with both Starmer & Johnson also voted Galloway

- Good to hear that some local Muslim women publicly disassociated themselves with those loudmouth Muslim men who backed Galloway, so hopefully that helped

- My impression (from national media) is that the Tory candidate, who wasn't local, kept a low profile, relying on Galloway taking Lab votes to hand him the seat

 

Lab still has a big hill to climb to get into contention for the next general election, but maybe Hartlepool will turn out to be their nadir and a slow recovery is now starting - especially if politics returns to semi-normality as Covid hopefully retreats? We'll also be getting into times when the Govt has tough, potentially unpopular decisions to take. Starmer will still need to up his game, but will hopefully now have at least until next year's local elections to show he can do that....

 

Particularly after losing Chesham, the Batley & Spen result is bad news for Johnson. Labour only just held on - but did so under very difficult circumstances due to Galloway specifically targeting their vote.

The fact that the Tory vote share also fell slightly should sound alarm bells for Bozza, given the popularity generated through vaccine success & the difficult decisions ahead.

One of the interesting things to me was reading that turnout was below 50%. In theory I would have had this as troublesome for Labour, but maybe it means the energised Brexit vote died down a bit - not that it went elsewhere as such, but those voters didn’t feel such a need to be heard at the ballot box anymore.

 

That and I think the two bolded points were probably key to getting Labour over the line. I reckon if I’d been a voter in Batley & Spen then I’d have voted Labour - not because I thought the Conservative candidate or campaign did anything wrong but because of the presence of George Galloway and the history of the far right & Jo Cox. It would have felt like an impassioned statement not to let hatred win, on either side of the political spectrum.

Edited by Dunge
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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Dunge said:

One of the interesting things to me was reading that turnout was below 50%. In theory I would have had this as troublesome for Labour, but maybe it means the energised Brexit vote died down a bit - not that it went elsewhere as such, but those voters didn’t feel such a need to be heard at the ballot box anymore.

 

That and I think the two bolded points were probably key to getting Labour over the line. I reckon if I’d been a voter in Batley & Spen then I’d have voted Labour - not because I thought the Conservative candidate or campaign did anything wrong but because of the presence of George Galloway and the history of the far right & Jo Cox. It would have felt like an impassioned statement not to let hatred win, on either side of the political spectrum.

 

I hadn't noticed the turnout. 47.6% actually isn't bad for a byelection, especially with Covid still ongoing. Would be very low for a general election, of course.

 

I just checked other recent byelections: turnout in Batley & Spen was 5% higher than in Hartlepool, much higher than in Newport (pre-Covid), about the same as Peterborough & just a bit less than in Chesham (and more prosperous constituencies like that usually have higher turnouts).

 

That's not to contradict your point re. Brexit motivation - you might well be right about that. But differential turnout might also have worked in Labour's favour - massive effort to get the Lab vote out v. some Tory voters staying at home due to disapproval of the Hancock shenanigans (& maybe Johnson's response) or simply due to the Tory candidate having a low profile in the media compared to Leadbeater & Galloway?

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Political leanings aside, Galloway has a bit of a Trump vibe about him, absolute weirdo. 


Farage with a lick of red paint, knows how to tap into his target audience but is a completely reprehensible cock.

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Alf Bentley

Alf Bentley

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Pleased for Sir Keith. He needed some positive news.

Probably the Piers Morgan Interview Bounce wot won it.

 

Sir Keith definitely needs some positive news as he's been dead for 26 years. ;)

 

Fair play, though, he inspired Maggie to ruin the country before he popped off....

https://www.brugesgroup.com/blog/sir-keith-joseph-the-architect-of-thatcherism

 

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Carl the Llama

Carl the Llama

Posted
Posted
27 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Pleased for Sir Keith. He needed some positive news.

Probably the Piers Morgan Interview Bounce wot won it.

Honestly this sir Keith stuff has the same energy as the guy who proudly called me a mother fvcker thinking I wasn't nearby then spent the entire time staring at the wall when I rounded the corner and requested elaboration.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Think farage is a lot more likable tbf 

Agreed.

 

Such populists are often very easy to like, slick with their delivery and that often blinds people to what the message they are delivering really means. Or maybe people really do understand and endorse the message, which frankly is scary.

 

See rather a lot of 2015-2020 across the world for numerous examples.

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Finnaldo

Finnaldo

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Think farage is a lot more likable tbf 


Whilst making assumptions, I assume you’re probably the demographic that Farage would aim for, as I am. Galloway’s appeal is in taking the South Asian/Muslim Labour-voting communities and exploiting the worst prejudices and divisions around social progressivism or international sectarian conflicts. He’s clearly liked in that demographic as he’s ran independently on that platform and got into the Commons and once again took a massive chunk from Labour in Batley. 
 

As I said, both are massive frauds, it’s just they have different pull in different demographics.

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Gordon the Great

Gordon the Great

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Finnaldo said:


Whilst making assumptions, I assume you’re probably the demographic that Farage would aim for, as I am. Galloway’s appeal is in taking the South Asian/Muslim Labour-voting communities and exploiting the worst prejudices and divisions around social progressivism or international sectarian conflicts. He’s clearly liked in that demographic as he’s ran independently on that platform and got into the Commons and once again took a massive chunk from Labour in Batley. 
 

As I said, both are massive frauds, it’s just they have different pull in different demographics.

Sir Nigel,.....if you please

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