Not The Politics Thread.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

 

Where’s Geoff?!

 

Hiyaaaaa! Sorry, been out all day, including a lovely 2-3 hours at Grace Road.. 

Just for balance though, here are the other two polls from today......

 

 

 

I'm surprised Britain Elects didn't quote the FoxesTalk poll which gave Labour a 20+ point lead.

I blame the biased media..... 

[Christoph]

Has anyone watched that Dominc Cummins interview? It's actually quite interesting. The guy is a bellend but I do applaud his honesty. He came across like he didn't give a **** and just told her everything. 

 

Also just shows you how dumb Boris is. Everyone knows how dumb he is but its really spelt out in the interview. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

18 minutes ago, Christoph said:

Has anyone watched that Dominc Cummins interview? It's actually quite interesting. The guy is a bellend but I do applaud his honesty. He came across like he didn't give a **** and just told her everything. 

 

Also just shows you how dumb Boris is. Everyone knows how dumb he is but its really spelt out in the interview. 

I did. I think it's great that we had this outsider on the inside who doesn't give a **** about his career or anything if he comes out and tells it how it is. I guess loads of people will be calling him a liar and stuff but I don't think he is, these people will either support the government or will have had their brains fried over Brexit.

 

Kuenssberg was shocking, though. Was incredulous at any suggestion that people might want Johnson to be ****ed off when the most successful elected politician in British history was proverbially knifed by her own Cabinet in 1990.

[Dunge]

20 minutes ago, Christoph said:

Has anyone watched that Dominc Cummins interview? It's actually quite interesting. The guy is a bellend but I do applaud his honesty. He came across like he didn't give a **** and just told her everything. 

 

Also just shows you how dumb Boris is. Everyone knows how dumb he is but its really spelt out in the interview. 

I’ve seen the highlights.

 

Frankly, it’s reached the point now where the guy has little relevant left to say except to incriminate himself. Some of the things in his latest interview I thought were quite astonishing, but not for the reasons he was hoping. His main claim about how Boris talked about not wanting a second lockdown because the average age of death was over 80 - I can believe him saying this and being talked out of it. I also don’t particularly care because the whole point of collective government is to reach the right decision through discussion. We know Boris is incompetent, not a hard worker and gaffe-prone (I’m going to see the Queen! What? Oh right, yes. Covid.). Perhaps it’s a good sign that there are blocks in place to stop such things reaching actual policy.

 

But the main thing in the interview to me was the bit where Cummings openly admitting to plotting amongst aides to overthrow the PM within weeks of his election. This as stunning arrogance and irony. Whether you like Boris or not (and for most on here I can assume not), the guy was in charge of a party that had just won an election landslide. The idea that unelected Dominic Cummings thought he knew better to the point of trying to replace him is exactly the kind of undemocratic tripe that was part of why I voted Brexit all those years ago. It’s disgusting behaviour, and this from the so-called genius head of the Leave campaign. He complains that Carrie wanted rid of him. I think he proves she had an excellent point. If anything, he proves Boris’s bigger mistake was to keep him on a single day after the election.

 

I have a theory right now that Dominic Cummings is currently being treated as a joke wherever he goes. I think he’s getting laughed at in corners, particularly for the Barnard Castle incident. And, as an arrogant man, I think he hates this. He claims it’s water off a Duck’s back and that he doesn’t care. He claims modesty. I look in his eyes and I don’t believe him. I see his words as a dose of honesty shrouding the deeper truth: He’s seething and wants all his criticisms to be laid at someone else’s door - Boris, Carrie, Matt Hancock, although he’s studiously avoiding Gove and Sunak so far. But every time he opens his mouth right now I see a man hurting from ridicule and its associated drop in respect from his peers.

 

He’ll probably have more to say in a few weeks’ time when nothing’s happened and people are back to laughing at him in corners again.

[Voll Blau]

Planning on watching the whole thing later but this seems the best summary of it so far...

 

 

 

It's a sign of where we're at now that this man, who admits he should be nowhere near power, was hired by a man who anybody else with their wits about them knows should be nowhere near power.

[CosbehFox]

I suppose it depends if you believe Boris was voted in for his personality or his policies. The latter is certainly where Cummings knows his stuff via analysis of the electorate. 
 

Still forgotten he broke the law over the Brexit vote though and for him just to say ‘it might have been a mistake’ 

Edited 21 July 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[David Guiza]

RE Cummings - is it any great surprise that if you make awful friends and allies, that one day they may come back and bite you in the backside when you stop being of any use them or vice versa? 

 

I can't wait for the leaked medical records of Mr Tickel to be brought up at the public inquiry, should there ever be one. Though, as with every other awful action, inaction, and comment, it perhaps wouldn't even make yesterday's chip paper anyway. 

 

 

[baylisslcfc]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I’ve seen the highlights.

 

Frankly, it’s reached the point now where the guy has little relevant left to say except to incriminate himself. Some of the things in his latest interview I thought were quite astonishing, but not for the reasons he was hoping. His main claim about how Boris talked about not wanting a second lockdown because the average age of death was over 80 - I can believe him saying this and being talked out of it. I also don’t particularly care because the whole point of collective government is to reach the right decision through discussion. We know Boris is incompetent, not a hard worker and gaffe-prone (I’m going to see the Queen! What? Oh right, yes. Covid.). Perhaps it’s a good sign that there are blocks in place to stop such things reaching actual policy.

 

But the main thing in the interview to me was the bit where Cummings openly admitting to plotting amongst aides to overthrow the PM within weeks of his election. This as stunning arrogance and irony. Whether you like Boris or not (and for most on here I can assume not), the guy was in charge of a party that had just won an election landslide. The idea that unelected Dominic Cummings thought he knew better to the point of trying to replace him is exactly the kind of undemocratic tripe that was part of why I voted Brexit all those years ago. It’s disgusting behaviour, and this from the so-called genius head of the Leave campaign. He complains that Carrie wanted rid of him. I think he proves she had an excellent point. If anything, he proves Boris’s bigger mistake was to keep him on a single day after the election.

 

I have a theory right now that Dominic Cummings is currently being treated as a joke wherever he goes. I think he’s getting laughed at in corners, particularly for the Barnard Castle incident. And, as an arrogant man, I think he hates this. He claims it’s water off a Duck’s back and that he doesn’t care. He claims modesty. I look in his eyes and I don’t believe him. I see his words as a dose of honesty shrouding the deeper truth: He’s seething and wants all his criticisms to be laid at someone else’s door - Boris, Carrie, Matt Hancock, although he’s studiously avoiding Gove and Sunak so far. But every time he opens his mouth right now I see a man hurting from ridicule and its associated drop in respect from his peers.

 

He’ll probably have more to say in a few weeks’ time when nothing’s happened and people are back to laughing at him in corners again.

This was the bit that got my back up too. Cummings is clearly a switched on bloke, but his arrogance is repulsive. It seemed like it was all a game for him. 

[Dunge]

8 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

RE Cummings - is it any great surprise that if you make awful friends and allies, that one day they may come back and bite you in the backside when you stop being of any use them or vice versa? 

 

I can't wait for the leaked medical records of Mr Tickel to be brought up at the public inquiry, should there ever be one. Though, as with every other awful action, inaction, and comment, it perhaps wouldn't even make yesterday's chip paper anyway. 

 

 

No great surprise, no. And Boris can’t say he wasn’t warned, by pretty much the entirety of the rest of the Conservative party, and his fiancée-cum-wife.

[Lionator]

Starmer's really at his best in PMQ's, Johnson is probably at his worst in PMQ's. It's a shame more of the public don't watch it as it really shows up competency. 

[David Guiza]

10 minutes ago, baylisslcfc said:

This was the bit that got my back up too. Cummings is clearly a switched on bloke, but his arrogance is repulsive. It seemed like it was all a game for him. 

I think, in part, it was. The man's ego is out of this world and it certainly feels like he's been testing just how far he can take matters before he gets bored and moves on to something else. Surely the most worrying aspect of it all is that Johnson allowed him so close to government and to have a strong say in the lives of millions of people. 

 

That being said, every government has it's fair share of dodgy characters as, thanks to the world we live in, spin, deceit, lies, self preservation etc are vital commodities. 

 

4 minutes ago, Dunge said:

No great surprise, no. And Boris can’t say he wasn’t warned, by pretty much the entirety of the rest of the Conservative party, and his fiancée-cum-wife.

Precisely. It feels however like some sort of fantastical novel/film, only a lot more dystopian and depressing, whereby neither can survive alone and required each other to gain power.

 

Johnson is clearly a smart bloke in an academic sense and would be an asset to any book club or history society, but I'm not entirely sure that intelligence translates to leadership and politics. He's done incredibly well to get where he has, but it's undoubtedly down to a large support group of unsavory but 'street smart' characters, like Cummings.  

[baylisslcfc]

3 minutes ago, David Guiza said:

I think, in part, it was. The man's ego is out of this world and it certainly feels like he's been testing just how far he can take matters before he gets bored and moves on to something else. Surely the most worrying aspect of it all is that Johnson allowed him so close to government and to have a strong say in the lives of millions of people. 

 

That being said, every government has it's fair share of dodgy characters as, thanks to the world we live in, spin, deceit, lies, self preservation etc are vital commodities. 

 

Precisely. It feels however like some sort of fantastical novel/film, only a lot more dystopian and depressing, whereby neither can survive alone and required each other to gain power.

 

Johnson is clearly a smart bloke in an academic sense and would be an asset to any book club or history society, but I'm not entirely sure that intelligence translates to leadership and politics. He's done incredibly well to get where he has, but it's undoubtedly down to a large support group of unsavory but 'street smart' characters, like Cummings.  

Johnson doesn’t come out of this looking good — but will it change anyone’s opinions of him or show up in the opinion polls? I highly doubt it. And to be fair, I can’t say the interview surprised me or taught me something I didn’t already suspect goes on in Downing Street.

 

What is more annoying for me was how Cummings and a dozen or so others thought they could play kingmakers, and how Cummings was so smug about it. He’s there to serve and advise Johnson, nothing else. Trying to depose a legitimately elected Prime Minister because you don’t like the way he does things now he’s got a new wife is repugnant behaviour. And to be clear, I’m no a fan of Johnson and don’t necessarily disagree with Cummings on the failures of the current system; but he’s not an elected official. The fact he thought he had the right to do this proves how self-righteous the man is. Cummings certainly isn’t the first of that ilk as you note though, and he of course won’t be the last.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

4 hours ago, Christoph said:

Has anyone watched that Dominc Cummins interview? It's actually quite interesting. The guy is a bellend but I do applaud his honesty. He came across like he didn't give a **** and just told her everything. 

 

Also just shows you how dumb Boris is. Everyone knows how dumb he is but its really spelt out in the interview. 

  Do you really believe all that rubbish he spouted? The guy is completely mentally unbalanced, and is a compulsive liar, out for revenge at his sacking, and yet you fall for it. Oh, Lord give me strength!

[when_you're_smiling]

2 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

  Do you really believe all that rubbish he spouted? The guy is completely mentally unbalanced, and is a compulsive liar, out for revenge at his sacking, and yet you fall for it. Oh, Lord give me strength!

Genuinely don’t know if you’re talking about Cummings or Johnson. Could be either.

[leicsmac]

7 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

  Do you really believe all that rubbish he spouted? The guy is completely mentally unbalanced, and is a compulsive liar, out for revenge at his sacking, and yet you fall for it. Oh, Lord give me strength!

...and yet the man was the toast of the town among the same people who would say this now when he masterminded the Vote Leave campaign.

[Leicester_Loyal]

 

Labour opposing vaccine passports apparently. If true, I am now a Labour supporter

Edited 21 July 2021 by Leicester_Loyal

[Buce]

Anger as minister fails to announce expected pay rise for NHS staff

Unions say workers treated ‘with contempt’ after notification of 3% increase pulled without explanation

 

Health unions have accused ministers of treating NHS staff “with contempt” after the government pulled an announcement about this year’s pay rise at the last minute without explanation.

The health minister Helen Whately was due to announce that staff in England would receive a 3% increase, three times higher than the 1% first planned, in a statement on Wednesday in the House of Commons.

 

But she did not mention health service pay at all in her “NHS update”, prompting frustration, anger and strongly worded criticism from Labour and NHS staff groups.

Whately did not explain the omission and, when challenged by the shadow health minister, Dr Rosena Allin-Khan, said the size and detail of the award had not been finalised. Allin-Khan said the failure to announce the pay deal was “an insult of the highest order”.

Pat Cullen, the acting chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing, said: “This treatment of our NHS workers is shameful. Ministers are holding them in contempt and we have no choice but to condemn this behaviour.

“With tens of thousands of nursing vacancies and thousands more considering their future in the profession, the government is sending the worst possible signal with this political game playing.”

Staff organisations and NHS bodies, which had been told this morning by the Department of Health and Social Care (DHSC) that Whately would put forward the deal in her speech, were surprised by her failure to give any detail.

Allin-Khan said in the Commons: “Once again we find this government has had to row back on a shoddy, ill-thought-through position with their 1% pay rise – a real-terms pay cut, rejected by the independent pay body.

“So what did the government do? Nothing. Less than an hour ago there were competing briefings on what the deal was going to be but it turned out to be nothing. Our NHS staff deserve better than this.

“They’ve worked incredibly hard throughout this pandemic, the personal sacrifice is astounding, their hard work never stops and that is not without consequences.”

The delay in announcing the award means 1.2 million NHS personnel will have to wait even longer to discover the size of their pay rise for the year that began on 1 April.

With the Commons rising on Thursday for the summer recess, it means the government has one last opportunity to announce the deal to MPs before September.

Rachel Harrison, a national officer with the GMB union, said: “This is completely outrageous – virtually the last day of parliament and the government has insulted hardworking NHS workers once again by staying silent.

“NHS workers who tuned in to watch the minister today will be rightly disgusted by this lack of respect. NHS staff have put themselves in harm’s way throughout the pandemic and as a health union we cannot accept MPs swanning off on holiday leaving health workers in limbo.”

There is speculation the government’s plan to make only 1.5% of the proposed 3% award a permanent increase to baseline salaries, with the other 1.5% being a one-off bonus – which the Guardian disclosed on Tuesday – was a key factor in the announcement being pulled.

Following that, some health unions told the DHSC privately that they would publicly reject such a deal, given that staff pensions would be affected and members would regard the 3% headline figure as spin.

 

 

 

[NasPb]

Im no tory but they're absolutely going to win the next elections whether we like it or not. Starmer is absolutely woeful 

[Sampson]

9 minutes ago, NasPb said:

Im no tory but they're absolutely going to win the next elections whether we like it or not. Starmer is absolutely woeful 

He's not at all. Honestly I find him intelligent and very affable. He just doesn't naturally have the same platform. Same with all the shadow cabinet. I bet most people know Rishi Sunak but couldn't tell you who the Shadow Chancellor is. It's always been that way when a party has been out of power for a long time. Which since the 70s has been the case where its always been a long stretch by one party.

 

If you combine Labour Green SNP and Lib Dem votes in the last couple of elections they massively dwarf the Conservatives so a Labour-Lib-Green-SNP coalition is far from improbable. The only thing is they have to all work together and sort out the logistics of it.

Edited 21 July 2021 by Sampson

[NasPb]

4 minutes ago, Sampson said:

He's not at all. Honestly I find him intelligent and very affable. He just doesn't naturally have the same platform. Same with all the back bencheds. It's always been that way when a party has been out of power for a long time. Which since the 70s has been the case where its a long stretch by one party.

 

If you combine Labour Green SNP and Lib Dem votes in the last couple of elections they massively dwarf the Conservatives so a Labour-Lib-Green-SNP coalition is far from improbable. The only thing is they have to all work together and sort out the logistics of it.

Snp won't work with labour and labour won't work with them. 

 

Maybe starmer convinces you, fair enough. But he won't get close to the 2017 result or anyone that was remotely positive. People aren't convinced by him at large whether we like it or not 

[Sharpe's Fox]

1 minute ago, NasPb said:

Snp won't work with labour and labour won't work with them. 

 

Maybe starmer convinces you, fair enough. But he won't get close to the 2017 result or anyone that was remotely positive. People aren't convinced by him at large whether we like it or not 

Correct opinion. Starmer will not hit the percentage of the vote Corbyn got in 2019, never mind 2017, never mind winning a majority. The party is leaking votes and money like a sieve.

[NasPb]

4 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Correct opinion. Starmer will not hit the percentage of the vote Corbyn got in 2019, never mind 2017, never mind winning a majority. The party is leaking votes and money like a sieve.

Exactly. Doesnt matter if youre left wing right wing or centrist or uninvolved. as rafa said, its a fact. we cant ignore facts. starmer has no chance. and im not a boris supporter at all or a tory by any stretch. 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

Anger as minister fails to announce expected pay rise for NHS staff

Unions say workers treated ‘with contempt’ after notification of 3% increase pulled without explanation

 

Nurses and other NHS workers in England have been offered a 3% pay rise by government "in recognition of unique impact of the pandemic" on staff.

It comes after heavily criticised proposals made by the Department for Health and Social Care in March said only a rise of 1% was affordable.

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Nurses and other NHS workers in England have been offered a 3% pay rise by government "in recognition of unique impact of the pandemic" on staff.

It comes after heavily criticised proposals made by the Department for Health and Social Care in March said only a rise of 1% was affordable.

 

Ministers have offered more than 1 million NHS staff in England a 3% pay rise, three times higher than its initial 1% offer, which sparked fury among frontline workers.

However, nurses are likely to reject the award as too low and may take industrial action in protest. Other health unions also plan to ballot their memberships over possible strike action.

 

The government dropped plans to make only 1.5% of the 3% uplift a permanent increase to salaries, with the other 1.5% in effect a one-off bonus, after staff groups warned privately that structuring the deal that way would lead them to condemn the deal.

However, the government’s decision to exclude the NHS’s 61,000 junior doctors – all medics below the level of consultant – from the award is certain to cause deep unease among a key group of staff who undertook a series of strikes in 2015-16 in protest at a proposed new contract.

 

 

[bovril]

I don't really give a shit about the EU any more. But honestly has any group been cucked harder in history than Brexiters? Both voters and politicians. Embarrassing.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/22/von-der-leyen-rejects-boris-johnson-bid-to-renegotiate-irish-protocol