Not The Politics Thread.

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

On 21/07/2021 at 14:24, leicsmac said:

...and yet the man was the toast of the town among the same people who would say this now when he masterminded the Vote Leave campaign.

No no, not this bunny, Cummings has always been the same. "masterminded the Vote Leave" campaign". Hardly. He supported it, yes. It was  Nigel. F. who was our great saviour, God bless him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Heathrow fox]

3 hours ago, TrickyTrev Benjamin said:

Yes people being turn off from labour nowadays. I tried to say it in the other thread about labour losing the working class but the labour middle class supporters weren’t having  it. This will happen a lot more, Labour don’t represent the poor working class folk anymore. Labour need another Blair like leader. 

I agree with all that except the last bit.To win back the lost core vote,Labour need more Paul Embery types.Huge shame he’s not an MP.

[bovril]

2 hours ago, Finnaldo said:

Of course, I agree. The double whammy of logistical issues and rising staff costs are going to be a very hard squeeze on many businesses. To expand my point properly, rather than saying “Haha, aren’t you sorry you can’t slave wage Continentals anymore? Should have voted Remain!”, we should be saying that higher employee wages could have been done without the damaging course the government have set Brexit on, and this could have been achieved without giving already struggling businesses a double whammy of costs amongst the other myriad of issues we’re seeing. That’s a non-confrontational, pro-worker and just as importantly pro-small business argument, and it gets the point across without dragging up the intelligence of Brexit voters, which more or less always devolves into a mix of unwinnable culture war battles or classism. 

 

The debate over "cheap labour" has become totally moronic but it is still funny that people voted leave and then complain about staff shortages. Total cucks, like I said before. 

 

And yes it's been said already but nobody was forcing British businesses to employ Europeans on slave wages. Blame those businesses. Solving this problem by essentially encouraging people to leave and also stopping FoM for British workers is absurd. It's like saying I dislike the commercialism of the Premier League so I want Leicester to get relegated. 

Edited 23 July 2021 by bovril

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Freedom Day Reverse Bounce

 

 

[Carl the Llama]

22 hours ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

No no, not this bunny, Cummings has always been the same. "masterminded the Vote Leave" campaign". Hardly. He supported it, yes. It was  Nigel. F. who was our great saviour, God bless him.

Are you not aware that Cummings chaired the Vote Leave campaign aka the crew behind the £350m bus and the signs all over the country warning of the impending Turkish invasion?  Incidentally both things he admitted to being deliberate distortions to muddy the debate in the Kuenssberg interview.

[CosbehFox]

On 23/07/2021 at 12:42, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Local Politics News Klaxon

Anyone with knowledge of the area know what caused this?

 

 

Just seen the turnout figure 

 

16% which I think says a lot how fed up people are 

[Strokes]

On 23/07/2021 at 14:54, Finnaldo said:

As a 2016 Remain voter… is the fact there’s less continental workers willing to work for the bare minimum meaning they might actually have to pay workers a living wage actually THAT much of a Brexit own? 
 

The logistical problems I get… but I feel they’re focusing too much on what a lot of people may consider a benefit.

If you ask @Alf Bentley, I explained to him this was my main reason for voting the way I did. Movement of people suppresses wages. I’m delighted to see these kind of posts, it’s justification for my decision.

[Strokes]

On 23/07/2021 at 16:04, What the Fuchs? said:

And the Tories - historically run by millionaires for millionaires - do? Why don’t Labour ‘represent the poor working class folk’, their policies in the past two elections were precisely designed to help those people. I find it strange that people think the Tories (who throughout history have opposed literally every major ameliorative legislative change for the working class, from voting rights and social/racial liberalisation to the minimum wage and the NHS and beyond) represent the working class better than Labour, because Rupert Murdoch, Lord Rothermere or the Barclay brothers have conditioned them to believe it. It wasn’t too long ago that the Tories with their ranks full of millionaire landlords voted against a motion to ensure that all rented housing in the country was “fit for human habitation” ffs. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-vote-down-law-requiring-landlords-make-their-homes-fit-human-habitation-a6809691.html%3famp

Maybe people at the bottom don’t want handouts but instead would prefer opportunities.

Up until the pandemic, the amount of people in work was pretty good.

[Dunge]

40 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Maybe people at the bottom don’t want handouts but instead would prefer opportunities.

Up until the pandemic, the amount of people in work was pretty good.

I think this in a nutshell is how Labour have “lost” the north. People are proud.

[Alf Bentley]

37 minutes ago, Strokes said:

If you ask @Alf Bentley, I explained to him this was my main reason for voting the way I did. Movement of people suppresses wages. I’m delighted to see these kind of posts, it’s justification for my decision.

 

I struggle to remember what anyone said yesterday, never mind 5 years ago..... 

But tbf I do recall you and others making this point.

 

But any Remainer arguing that we needed high EU immigration to maintain a low-wage economy had a pretty rubbish argument.

 

You'll certainly have some justification for your decision if we end up with lots more British people employed as bar staff, nurses, care workers & agricultural labourers - and employed on higher pay than the EU staff they've replaced.

But it's a long way from a few employers grumbling that they've lost their cheap labour to this resulting in higher levels of better-paid employment for Brits.....there are several alternative outcomes to that scenario.

It also doesn't help that the Govt did sod all to ensure a better supply of Brits for such jobs. Are more Brits being trained as nurses or encouraged into well-paid care work, farm labouring and hospitality work?

 

It's only one aspect of the Brexit scenario, too. We wait to see the long-term impacts on trade in food, wider economy & living standards, N. Ireland, fishing, financial sector, research, global influence etc.

Will take several years to become clear, I imagine, especially with the Covid crisis complicating analysis.

[Finnaldo]

1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Maybe people at the bottom don’t want handouts but instead would prefer opportunities.

Up until the pandemic, the amount of people in work was pretty good.

With this in mind, what do you make of Starmer’s ‘Buy British’ platform he’s been cultivating? I know it’s very bare bones so far but what would you like to see out of it and do you think it’s the right kind of step as a positive investment in Britain’s workforce?

 

One of the blokes on the ‘Ex-Labour voters meet Starmer’ video was quite sceptical given how gutted our industrial base has become, which is a very valid point. However with the looming spectre of the PRC I feel some proper investment in Britain’s industrial base, even if it’ll never reach the pinnacle it once was, is absolutely critical in maintaining ourselves as a world leader, especially post-Brexit.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

With this in mind, what do you make of Starmer’s ‘Buy British’ platform he’s been cultivating? I know it’s very bare bones so far but what would you like to see out of it and do you think it’s the right kind of step as a positive investment in Britain’s workforce?

 

One of the blokes on the ‘Ex-Labour voters meet Starmer’ video was quite sceptical given how gutted our industrial base has become, which is a very valid point. However with the looming spectre of the PRC I feel some proper investment in Britain’s industrial base, even if it’ll never reach the pinnacle it once was, is absolutely critical in maintaining ourselves as a world leader, especially post-Brexit.

I’m a big fan of it, again it was something I called for a while back and I’ve not been a huge critic of Starmer (yet). Him being wooden does not really bother me much, hopefully it continues and Labour put forward a decent local candidate and it may well sway me. I’d love to vote against this appalling government if I see it feasible.

[Strokes]

20 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I struggle to remember what anyone said yesterday, never mind 5 years ago..... 

But tbf I do recall you and others making this point.

 

But any Remainer arguing that we needed high EU immigration to maintain a low-wage economy had a pretty rubbish argument.

 

You'll certainly have some justification for your decision if we end up with lots more British people employed as bar staff, nurses, care workers & agricultural labourers - and employed on higher pay than the EU staff they've replaced.

But it's a long way from a few employers grumbling that they've lost their cheap labour to this resulting in higher levels of better-paid employment for Brits.....there are several alternative outcomes to that scenario.

It also doesn't help that the Govt did sod all to ensure a better supply of Brits for such jobs. Are more Brits being trained as nurses or encouraged into well-paid care work, farm labouring and hospitality work?

 

It's only one aspect of the Brexit scenario, too. We wait to see the long-term impacts on trade in food, wider economy & living standards, N. Ireland, fishing, financial sector, research, global influence etc.

Will take several years to become clear, I imagine, especially with the Covid crisis complicating analysis.

Of course there is a big picture but I’m a leaver with only a tiny capacity brain, so it’s fine if I break it down and call it a win. 

[Claridge]

55 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I think this in a nutshell is how Labour have “lost” the north. People are proud.

And the complete non entities they keep putting up as leader. I mean Keir Starmer ffs

[Alf Bentley]

56 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Of course there is a big picture but I’m a leaver with only a tiny capacity brain, so it’s fine if I break it down and call it a win. 

 

Whereas I'll broaden the picture, complicate the issue, muddy the waters, look long term.....and await my inevitable vindication as a Remainer. 

 

Before proclaiming victory on your narrow criterion, though, you could at least wait for grumbling cheap-labour employers to move from grumbling to employing lots of Brits on high wages....and finding an ample supply of Brits wanting to work in the fields, care homes, hospitals, bars and fish processing plants of Blighty.... 

 

Do you know, this is probably the first time I've discussed Brexit with anyone for months...

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Whereas I'll broaden the picture, complicate the issue, muddy the waters, look long term.....and await my inevitable vindication as a Remainer. 

 

Before proclaiming victory on your narrow criterion, though, you could at least wait for grumbling cheap-labour employers to move from grumbling to employing lots of Brits on high wages....and finding an ample supply of Brits wanting to work in the fields, care homes, hospitals, bars and fish processing plants of Blighty.... 

 

Do you know, this is probably the first time I've discussed Brexit with anyone for months...

Yeah I’ve not discussed it for months, I think something must have distracted us.

 

In all seriousness, I’m far from claiming victory. I’m well aware there are negatives and I was before making my choice. (Some of them I didn’t give enough consideration too)
There were negatives in joining and negatives in remaining. No choice was clear cut and anyone pretending otherwise has clearly not looked at it with an open mind.

I do hope it works out, not to be proven right or rub people noses in it but because it affects us all and we want to prosper together.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

(Some of them I didn’t give enough consideration too)

TBH you're far from alone there - part of the way we're all "wired", I think.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Labour polling better of late.

Lib Dem drop though.

 

 

 

And another positive for Labour here.

 

 

Edited 26 July 2021 by UpTheLeagueFox

[UpTheLeagueFox]

Another big swing for Labour #InKeithWeTrust

 

 

[Lionator]

I wonder if this is a euro’s effect. The tories take the knee stance really did come back to bite them and exposed them for the numpties they are. 
 

Labour really need to capitalise on this and come out with some policies, popular policies. 

[Buce]

27 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I wonder if this is a euro’s effect. The tories take the knee stance really did come back to bite them and exposed them for the numpties they are. 
 

Labour really need to capitalise on this and come out with some policies, popular policies. 

 

Labour pledges same rights for all workers from day one of jobs

Party vows same protections for everyone in work, from direct employees to those in gig economy

 

All workers from direct employees to those in the gig economy would be eligible for sick pay, holiday, parental leave and the minimum wage from day one of their jobs under new plans announced by Labour.

The party said it would create a new definition of “worker” in law to make sure everyone in employment gets the same protections.

 

Under the current system, there are qualifying periods for rights such as statutory maternity, adoption, paternity, shared parental leave and flexible working requests.

Labour said all workers should get rights immediately, whether they were in direct employment or working in the so-called gig economy.

The move would mean an extra 6 million people in insecure work having access to sick pay, potentially helping to solve the issue of some gig economy workers with Covid being reluctant to isolate because of worries about losing money.

To qualify for sick pay currently, workers must have an employment contract, earn an average of at least £120 a week and have been ill or self-isolating for at least four days in a row.

As well as extending the right to statutory sick pay, Labour said it would give extra protection on national minimum wage entitlement, holiday pay and paid parental leave, and protection against unfair dismissal.

The shadow employment secretary, Andy McDonald, said: “Millions of workers are in insecure employment with low pay and few rights and protections, particularly key workers whose efforts got the country through the pandemic. A lack of basic rights and protections forces working people into poverty and insecurity. This is terrible for working people, damaging for the economy, and as we have seen throughout the pandemic, devastating for public health.

“We need a new deal for working people. Labour would ensure that all work balances the flexibility workers want with the security they deserve.”

Labour said the current law meant there were three separate employment statuses - employee; dependent contractors, known in law as “limb (b) workers”; and self-employed – each with separate accompanying rights.

Under Labour’s proposal, employees, dependent contractors and those in bogus self-employment would have the same rights, while the genuinely self-employed would retain their status.

The announcement is part of a week of policy proposals that Keir Starmer’s team is unveiling under the banner of a “new deal for working people”.

The Labour leader and his team have been cautious about announcing new policy since he took over the job last spring, and some in the party have been pushing for a more concrete platform and vision.

Under the “new deal” announcements, the party hopes to bring together policies already announced, including a minimum wage of at least £10 an hour, a guarantee of work or training for young people and a buy-British approach, intended to use government procurement to support employment.

Announcing the programme, Starmer highlighted his background – his mother was a nurse, his father a toolmaker – and said a new deal was necessary as the economy emerged from the Covid crisis.

“It often feels remote when politicians talk about this thing called the economy, but our economy is just the sum total of the work of the British people. If we create good work for everyone, we will all benefit. With Labour, we can make Britain the best place to work,” he said.

[st albans fox]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I wonder if this is a euro’s effect. The tories take the knee stance really did come back to bite them and exposed them for the numpties they are. 
 

Labour really need to capitalise on this and come out with some policies, popular policies. 

I imagine it’s more simple than that.  The majority of people would not have removed all the restrictions and the govt are being judged by some on that. If it turns out to be a gamble that works over the next few weeks then come late august the gap will be back to 8 points +. 

[Buce]

1 hour ago, Lionator said:

I wonder if this is a euro’s effect. The tories take the knee stance really did come back to bite them and exposed them for the numpties they are. 
 

Labour really need to capitalise on this and come out with some policies, popular policies. 

 

2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I imagine it’s more simple than that.  The majority of people would not have removed all the restrictions and the govt are being judged by some on that. If it turns out to be a gamble that works over the next few weeks then come late august the gap will be back to 8 points +. 

 

I think it's more likely to be a reaction to Bozo and Javid trying to dodge self-isolation.

[Sharpe's Fox]

3 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Labour pledges same rights for all workers from day one of jobs

Party vows same protections for everyone in work, from direct employees to those in gig economy

 

All workers from direct employees to those in the gig economy would be eligible for sick pay, holiday, parental leave and the minimum wage from day one of their jobs under new plans announced by Labour.

The party said it would create a new definition of “worker” in law to make sure everyone in employment gets the same protections.

 

Under the current system, there are qualifying periods for rights such as statutory maternity, adoption, paternity, shared parental leave and flexible working requests.

Labour said all workers should get rights immediately, whether they were in direct employment or working in the so-called gig economy.

The move would mean an extra 6 million people in insecure work having access to sick pay, potentially helping to solve the issue of some gig economy workers with Covid being reluctant to isolate because of worries about losing money.

To qualify for sick pay currently, workers must have an employment contract, earn an average of at least £120 a week and have been ill or self-isolating for at least four days in a row.

As well as extending the right to statutory sick pay, Labour said it would give extra protection on national minimum wage entitlement, holiday pay and paid parental leave, and protection against unfair dismissal.

The shadow employment secretary, Andy McDonald, said: “Millions of workers are in insecure employment with low pay and few rights and protections, particularly key workers whose efforts got the country through the pandemic. A lack of basic rights and protections forces working people into poverty and insecurity. This is terrible for working people, damaging for the economy, and as we have seen throughout the pandemic, devastating for public health.

“We need a new deal for working people. Labour would ensure that all work balances the flexibility workers want with the security they deserve.”

Labour said the current law meant there were three separate employment statuses - employee; dependent contractors, known in law as “limb (b) workers”; and self-employed – each with separate accompanying rights.

Under Labour’s proposal, employees, dependent contractors and those in bogus self-employment would have the same rights, while the genuinely self-employed would retain their status.

The announcement is part of a week of policy proposals that Keir Starmer’s team is unveiling under the banner of a “new deal for working people”.

The Labour leader and his team have been cautious about announcing new policy since he took over the job last spring, and some in the party have been pushing for a more concrete platform and vision.

Under the “new deal” announcements, the party hopes to bring together policies already announced, including a minimum wage of at least £10 an hour, a guarantee of work or training for young people and a buy-British approach, intended to use government procurement to support employment.

Announcing the programme, Starmer highlighted his background – his mother was a nurse, his father a toolmaker – and said a new deal was necessary as the economy emerged from the Covid crisis.

“It often feels remote when politicians talk about this thing called the economy, but our economy is just the sum total of the work of the British people. If we create good work for everyone, we will all benefit. With Labour, we can make Britain the best place to work,” he said.

Doesn't really mean much when Labour Party staff announced 90 redundancies without even consulting trade unions or considering other measures to cut costs. Get your own house in order springs to mind.

[Finnaldo]

12 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Another big swing for Labour #InKeithWeTrust

 

 

Feels like this is Conservative failings over Labour being a particularly attractive prospect at the minute, Starmer will need to come out and offer some decent alternatives whilst he’s on the upswing if he wants this to last.