Not The Politics Thread.

[foxes1988]

You can say that again.  Now you have remainers ready to jump on the 'I told you so' wagon And Brexiters getting so defensive they wont admit brexit causing any issues at all

[Strokes]

5 minutes ago, foxes1988 said:

You can say that again.  Now you have remainers ready to jump on the 'I told you so' wagon And Brexiters getting so defensive they wont admit brexit causing any issues at all

It’s not about claiming brexit isn’t causing any issues at all, it’s about proving it’s not the root cause of all issues.

Poor handling and preparation for brexit has certainly caused issues but the pandemic has had such a sweeping affects globally it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in some cases. 
The desire from some for an early told you so, is a bit pathetic.

Edited 29 September 2021 by Strokes

[foxes1988]

10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s stupid because the argument for leaving the EU would have been far stronger from the left. FOM makes the poorest poorer, it’s a capitalists wet dream on paper. I do wish the debate had not swung into tribalism because the fallout would not have been anywhere near what it was.

You can say that again.  Now you have remainers ready to jump on the 'I told you so' wagon And Brexiters getting so defensive they wont admit brexit causing any issues at all

[foxes1988]

12 minutes ago, Strokes said:

It’s not about claiming brexit isn’t causing any issues at all, it’s about proving it’s not the root cause of all issues.

Poor handling and preparation for brexit has certainly caused issues but the pandemic has had such a sweeping affects globally it’s hard to separate the wheat from the chaff in some cases. 
The desire from some for an early told you so, is a bit pathetic.

Oh i kn ow but because some are getting so defensive thats not what they argue.  They seem to argue brexit is nothing to do with it or very very very little to do with it or at least it comes across that way.

 

Its pathetic both sides to be honest.

Edited 29 September 2021 by foxes1988

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

I mean, in the context I mean it, it probably only isn't because as Brits we're not quite as melodramatic and hysterical as the Americans in general. 

 

We do apathy like few others in the world. 

 

But it's still clearly had an impact and left scars socially. 

In the social polarization context that you mention, I'd certainly agree. Obviously there's more going on, though.

 

1 hour ago, bovril said:

It'll have longer lasting consequences, I think. The trajectory of the UK and EU has changed dramatically because of it.

Economically I'd agree with this, possibly socially too depending on the level of comparative unrest we will see in the Americas and Europe as a result.

 

Scientifically, I don't really think so. Trump cost the world's largest player and by extension the world itself four years we didn't really have to spend in the first place.

[Beechey]

Momentum nutjobs interrupting Starmer as he tells an emotional story about his seriously sick mother in hospital. Pretty grim. Reading the room not their strong suit.

He retorts with "shouting slogans or changing lives?" Lol.

Edited 29 September 2021 by Beechey

[Sampson]

Just now, Beechey said:

Momentum nutjobs interupting Starmer as he tells an emotional story about his seriously sick mother in hospital. Pretty grim. Reading the room not their strong suit.

Think Starmer is reacting really well to the heckling but you just know the press will concentrate on the actual heckling.

[ClaphamFox]

The hecklers will do more to improve Starmer's reputation among ordinary voters than anything he says in his speech. If the public feel the left of the party is against him, they might conclude that he really has broken decisively from the fiasco of the Corbyn years. Tony Blair was hated by the lefties and it helped him to get elected. Starmer must be absolutely loving this.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[drumbeat]

55 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Trump cost the world's largest player and by extension the world itself four years we didn't really have to spend in the first place.

If only he was an amusing 4 year side show. The beliefs and attitudes that made him popular are still around, and will perhaps always be.  In many ways, Trump was a symptom and until the illness is addressed, the ground remains fertile to another outbreak (to continue my medial metaphor) 

[leicsmac]

11 minutes ago, drumbeat said:

If only he was an amusing 4 year side show. The beliefs and attitudes that made him popular are still around, and will perhaps always be.  In many ways, Trump was a symptom and until the illness is addressed, the ground remains fertile to another outbreak (to continue my medial metaphor) 

I don't disagree. The fear is, of course, that the next fascist enabler will be more competent. The illness, as you put it, does need to be addressed,though how that happens goodness only knows.

[Dunge]

I’ve been in and out of Starmer’s speech. Every time I do there’s someone with the face of a gammon and the constitution of a toddler shouting at him. Despite that, and maybe also a little in spite of that, I like what he’s saying.

[Innovindil]

26 minutes ago, Dunge said:

I’ve been in and out of Starmer’s speech. Every time I do there’s someone with the face of a gammon and the constitution of a toddler shouting at him. Despite that, and maybe also a little in spite of that, I like what he’s saying.

Only seen tidbits myself since I'm at work. But he's got the right idea. If he wants to win, or even have a chance of winning, he can't be flapping to every noisy cvnt in the crowd. 

[drumbeat]

Sad truth (though maybe not for some) is that if he wants Labour to win at the next election then he has to distance himself from the left. Blair did it so I suspect Starmer sees it as the model for success. Labour is a 'broad church' as they say and they'll always have internal bust-ups, I don't agree with what Starmer is doing but I do see that if a Labour Govt is the aim then he has to distance himself from certain elements within his own party. 

 

(I'm off the left btw, and voted Labour because of Corbyn... I do accept that it's not popular though, and certainly was an unlikely path to Downing Street. Still, there you go)  

[RobHawk]

The state of those hecklers! 

 

Think he smashed it tbh. Hitting all the right tones in a clear and confident manner. Made is clear he wants to win an election and be in power and showed up the hecklers with his changing lives comment. 

 

Let's be honest though, it's now all about how the media spin it. Do the give it the positive spin I feel it deserved or concentrate on the fact there's a few nuts in every cake. 

[Voll Blau]

22 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

The state of those hecklers! 

 

Think he smashed it tbh. Hitting all the right tones in a clear and confident manner. Made is clear he wants to win an election and be in power and showed up the hecklers with his changing lives comment. 

 

Let's be honest though, it's now all about how the media spin it. Do the give it the positive spin I feel it deserved or concentrate on the fact there's a few nuts in every cake. 

Most of what I've seen has been the lobby basically saying the hecklers (and the fact he took them on) can only be beneficial, because if the extremists don't like him then that's a good thing in the minds of the electorate. Suspect clips of him giving them stick back will be what's shown on the news.

 

The only criticisms I've seen seem to be that the speech was a bit long, which is fair enough. I've caught most of it and, while it wasn't a barnstormer and might not change many minds yet, it at least showed he's got the mettle to deliver a decent speech in front of a full room - especially with hostile spectators giving him grief. He'll need more of that if he's going to win. Nice to finally hear the skeletons of some actual policies too, hopefully they're fleshed out in the coming weeks and months.

[RobHawk]

14 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Most of what I've seen has been the lobby basically saying the hecklers (and the fact he took them on) can only be beneficial, because if the extremists don't like him then that's a good thing in the minds of the electorate. Suspect clips of him giving them stick back will be what's shown on the news.

 

The only criticisms I've seen seem to be that the speech was a bit long, which is fair enough. I've caught most of it and, while it wasn't a barnstormer and might not change many minds yet, it at least showed he's got the mettle to deliver a decent speech in front of a full room - especially with hostile spectators giving him grief. He'll need more of that if he's going to win. Nice to finally hear the skeletons of some actual policies too, hopefully they're fleshed out in the coming weeks and months.

I think it's difficult to be too heavy on policy when we don't have an election round the corner. 

 

At this stage it's about vision, giving snippets of how you see the country and essentially getting your house in order. Getting the party to beleive and invest in that vision. There's always going to be some unrest from the left but we all know who's running this show. It was a huge step in the right direction and I hope gives starmer the platform to really push on and lead this party properly coz he's been far too quiet in opposition for me so far. 

[Dunge]

36 minutes ago, RobHawk said:

I think it's difficult to be too heavy on policy when we don't have an election round the corner. 

 

At this stage it's about vision, giving snippets of how you see the country and essentially getting your house in order. Getting the party to beleive and invest in that vision. There's always going to be some unrest from the left but we all know who's running this show. It was a huge step in the right direction and I hope gives starmer the platform to really push on and lead this party properly coz he's been far too quiet in opposition for me so far. 

I think he will do. During the pandemic he was, in many ways, in a no-win situation. The country needed and expected togetherness rather than outright opposition. That’s changing now, and I think so will he; although I expect him to do so in a dignified way. If he flies off the handle at Boris and co for every little thing then he’ll fall into the same trap as Twitter in that people get numb to it and conclude that everything’s over the top. I thought his critique of them in his speech today was pointed, considered and fair, while also playing to his own strengths in return. And to me at least it was all the more effective for doing so.

[Carl the Llama]

4 hours ago, Beechey said:

Momentum nutjobs interrupting Starmer as he tells an emotional story about his seriously sick mother in hospital. Pretty grim. Reading the room not their strong suit.

He retorts with "shouting slogans or changing lives?" Lol.

Pretty good slogan that ngl

[Mike Oxlong]

A lot of the far left labour activists look like scarecrows and vagrants tbh 

[urban.spaceman]

27 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

A lot of the far left labour activists look like scarecrows and vagrants tbh 

Imagine having this CV and still thinking yourself superior.

 

 

 

[Mike Oxlong]

18 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

Imagine having this CV and still thinking yourself superior.

 

 

 

Yep 

 

[RobHawk]

2 hours ago, Dunge said:

I think he will do. During the pandemic he was, in many ways, in a no-win situation. The country needed and expected togetherness rather than outright opposition. That’s changing now, and I think so will he; although I expect him to do so in a dignified way. If he flies off the handle at Boris and co for every little thing then he’ll fall into the same trap as Twitter in that people get numb to it and conclude that everything’s over the top. I thought his critique of them in his speech today was pointed, considered and fair, while also playing to his own strengths in return. And to me at least it was all the more effective for doing so.

Yeah I agree 100%. 

 

I hope he'll feel In a stronger position within the party too. We've seen all week the crap he's getting internally and this week was a chance to really stamp his authority on the party. 

 

He's gone full Blair today, and I personally think that's a good thing. Iraq aside, the Blair governments were the best of my lifetime and he even outlined their success today as a barometer for the future. 

[Legend_in_blue]

51 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

Yep 

 

 

Thought I recognised the face from somewhere. 

 

Well, she made herself look like a right old numpty today.  

[Lionator]

I think based on this that it was a positive day for Starmer.