Not The Politics Thread.

[CosbehFox]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

 

Absolutely fvcking mental that he can - and will - get away with repeating a line this dense about where meat comes from as if that's what farmers are complaining about.

 

I know it's a cliche but imagine if Diane Abbott, or to be honest, anyone else in the country kept saying something this stupid on air.

When he goes all quiet as if to say ‘mate you aren’t supposed to be doing this to me’ 

 

That video of the fella with CP making his point to Rees Mogg is very raw and borderline upsetting 

[David Guiza]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

 

Absolutely fvcking mental that he can - and will - get away with repeating a line this dense about where meat comes from as if that's what farmers are complaining about.

 

I know it's a cliche but imagine if Diane Abbott, or to be honest, anyone else in the country kept saying something this stupid on air.

The only saving grace in all this is that the farmers may enact a Partridge style revenge on Johnson. 

 

[CosbehFox]

8 minutes ago, Dunge said:

 

 

The Conservative party really needs to start looking beyond him, because I think he’s going to start putting more and more people off as the pandemic subsides.

There’s been grumbles privately between members at the conference that the tactics of the Tory party need to change. The culture war stuff is beginning to wear thin. We will see. A few years ago, I’d have said that this conference has been a disaster for the Conservatives. Now I’m not so sure any more 

[Voll Blau]

6 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

When he goes all quiet as if to say ‘mate you aren’t supposed to be doing this to me’ 

 

That video of the fella with CP making his point to Rees Mogg is very raw and borderline upsetting 

Yeah, it really got to me too. How can anyone see something like that and defend the way the Tories have treated people like him?

 

For anyone who hasn't seen...

 

 

[Dunge]

4 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

There’s been grumbles privately between members at the conference that the tactics of the Tory party need to change. The culture war stuff is beginning to wear thin. We will see. A few years ago, I’d have said that this conference has been a disaster for the Conservatives. Now I’m not so sure any more 

I’ve thought for a while that the best thing the Tories’ opponents could do was give them space to shoot their own feet. This conference is going some way to showing that; it’s been pretty awful so far.

 

Starmer was far more impressive the other day, even if he does lack the charisma of a Blair.

[CosbehFox]

Just now, Dunge said:

I’ve thought for a while that the best thing the Tories’ opponents could do was give them space to shoot their own feet. This conference is going some way to showing that; it’s been pretty awful so far.

 

Starmer was far more impressive the other day, even if he does lack the charisma of a Blair.

Quite. The members are always a good indicator. As much as politics as exists in this world of foreign donors etc, it’s the people on the street when it comes election year who really know what’s happening. You can make a strong case that it’s where the real effects were found on the last election

[Alf Bentley]

12 minutes ago, Dunge said:

Funnily enough, this particular oik did give a shit about it.

 

I thought what he said about the pigs was one of the worst things he’s ever said. I’m a carnivore, I eat pigs quite happily because they have the misfortune of being utterly delicious. I’m at peace with that and don’t mind it. But I do still expect them to be valued, which many, many farmers do. The idea that you just go “oops” and slaughter them for nothing leaves not a delicious taste but a very sour one. And that’s before we get to the economics of the situation that you rightly point out. And as you say, it’s a gigantic lack of planning. And entirely lacking in empathy.

 

I don’t entirely blame Boris’s government for this - given the previous Brexit gridlock and then the all-hands-to-the-pump pandemic situation there was always going to be some difficulty. And I fully expected some problems following Brexit. But he and his government do have to take more of the blame for these things the further we get from Brexit day itself, and it’s quite clear that his policy has been to wing it, and that he doesn’t really understand what Brexit’s about either. Which is frustrating when I get the impression that his chancellor does.

 

I don’t go for @What the Fuchs?’s argument above that the Conservative party is entirely corrupt, and I think any party will be in hock to its funders in ways that others won’t like. (That’s a whole other can of worms about how political parties are funded.) But Boris does look particularly susceptible to it. At best he can get himself in trouble too easily. At worst he’s entirely complicit. The Conservative party really needs to start looking beyond him, because I think he’s going to start putting more and more people off as the pandemic subsides.

 

I'm sure BJ won't fool everyone and clearly hasn't fooled you. But, by the fact that you make regular, considered posts in a politics forum, you're clearly someone with more interest in politics than 90%+. I'm sure many will be fooled or won't give a shit.

I'm a carnivore myself, though not a massive meat-eater. I used to enjoy bacon sandwiches, but have sadly cut them out due to my heart condition. But the whole bacon sarnie issue is a deliberately dishonest distraction by BJ.

 

You don't entirely blame his Govt for this, but he was Foreign Secretary in the previous govt! I know he's cunningly managed to convince some voters that this is somehow a new Govt and not just the Tories under a new leader, but he was a leading member of May's cabinet, which also didn't prepare adequately for Brexit. That was why I raised the issue of border controls on goods - where the EU did prepare properly for Brexit, but our Tory Govt did not, placing British traders at a disadvantage.

 

It's only fair to admit that Covid has accelerated the problem by encouraging more EU migrant workers to return to their countries or to stay there. That might have excused some problems if plans to replace EU labour with UK labour were incomplete, but have there been any plans at all? What plans have there been to encourage British workers into lorry driving, slaughterhouses, nursing, care homes or seasonal agriculture? I struggle to think of any plans, even incomplete plans. Indeed, some Govt policies, such as cancelling nurses' training bursaries, exacerbate the problem. The Govt seems to have a lazy and/or ideological assumption that market forces will sort this all out via higher wages attracting new workers. But it already seems that it's working conditions more than pay that have caused the shortage of drivers. Even where pay increases are viable, what if higher pay doesn't create a surge of Brits wanting to slaughter livestock, drive lorries, pick potatoes or do personal care for dementia patients?

 

You might be right that BJ doesn't understand what Brexit is about. To him, it was mainly a vehicle that he could cynically use to gain power and boost his ego, I suspect.

 

I agree that the Tory Party is not entirely corrupt. Some individuals are financially or morally corrupt but others are not. Shall we settle for 50% corrupt and 50% mindblowingly incompetent? 

[Zear0]

Build Back Beaver!  This is bizarre, like watching Spud's interview in Trainspotting at times.

[Dunge]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm sure BJ won't fool everyone and clearly hasn't fooled you. But, by the fact that you make regular, considered posts in a politics forum, you're clearly someone with more interest in politics than 90%+. I'm sure many will be fooled or won't give a shit.

I'm a carnivore myself, though not a massive meat-eater. I used to enjoy bacon sandwiches, but have sadly cut them out due to my heart condition. But the whole bacon sarnie issue is a deliberately dishonest distraction by BJ.

 

You don't entirely blame his Govt for this, but he was Foreign Secretary in the previous govt! I know he's cunningly managed to convince some voters that this is somehow a new Govt and not just the Tories under a new leader, but he was a leading member of May's cabinet, which also didn't prepare adequately for Brexit. That was why I raised the issue of border controls on goods - where the EU did prepare properly for Brexit, but our Tory Govt did not, placing British traders at a disadvantage.

 

It's only fair to admit that Covid has accelerated the problem by encouraging more EU migrant workers to return to their countries or to stay there. That might have excused some problems if plans to replace EU labour with UK labour were incomplete, but have there been any plans at all? What plans have there been to encourage British workers into lorry driving, slaughterhouses, nursing, care homes or seasonal agriculture? I struggle to think of any plans, even incomplete plans. Indeed, some Govt policies, such as cancelling nurses' training bursaries, exacerbate the problem. The Govt seems to have a lazy and/or ideological assumption that market forces will sort this all out via higher wages attracting new workers. But it already seems that it's working conditions more than pay that have caused the shortage of drivers. Even where pay increases are viable, what if higher pay doesn't create a surge of Brits wanting to slaughter livestock, drive lorries, pick potatoes or do personal care for dementia patients?

 

You might be right that BJ doesn't understand what Brexit is about. To him, it was mainly a vehicle that he could cynically use to gain power and boost his ego, I suspect.

 

I agree that the Tory Party is not entirely corrupt. Some individuals are financially or morally corrupt but others are not. Shall we settle for 50% corrupt and 50% mindblowingly incompetent? 

Yes, that sounds about right. 

 

When I say I don’t entirely blame Boris’s government for it, what I mean is that I think there have been some major distractions not of their doing that have taken effort away from proper planning for Brexit - namely the pandemic and the pre-election chaos of a house split three ways on Brexit. The latter, naturally, is a place and a wound I’d rather not reopen, only to say that it was a massive distraction to getting things done. (Although fair to say a big part Theresa May’s fault for holding a stupid, ill-fated election in 2017 that caused the situation. But again, that’s a rabbit warren that’s been delved into many times.)

 

As for his performance as foreign secretary, that was as good an argument as any for why he shouldn’t have become PM. I remember when the candidates were announced there was some polling done as to the various likely outcomes of the different leaders - I think it was shown on here at the time. I remember it being fascinating that Johnson was the only one predicted to give the Tories a stable majority, and so it turned out. Meanwhile Rory Stewart, who I quite liked, would have resulted in the Tories being almost wiped out! (With Farage’s Brexit party gaining massively, Labour I think getting a minority government/coalition with the SNP.) Essentially, Johnson became the necessary evil to get Brexit over the line. What came afterwards was somewhat left in his and the Conservatives’ hands. I knew what I wanted from it, but nobody had had the chance to talk about it properly because of all the energy still arguing over whether it should even happen.

 

Which is partly why I was encouraged by Starmer’s speech the other day, and references being made to investments in education and science. He gave the impression with that of understanding more what Brexit is about and the potential opportunities it brings than Johnson, who is still trying to define what “levelling up” even means, and even seems to be stuck with old ideas like getting everyone back to offices instead of technological advancements, and the environmental low-hanging fruit that is hybrid working.

 

Essentially, I’m a centrist, and I always wanted a centrist government making Brexit work. But unfortunately I had to side with one of the wings for a while to actually get it through. Farage served his purpose once the vote got through in the first place, so I could discard him. Now I’m increasingly convinced that Boris has served his purpose too.

[LVFox]

It will be really interesting next election to see exactly how many people voted for Boris as apposed to voting against Corbyn.

 

Starmer just has to appear a credible, reliable alternative to stand a really good chance. You could argue that’s very hard to prove and he isn’t doing a great job of it just yet though. 

[Innovindil]

 

Tesco: Hgv Driver - Lichfield Class 1

More key benefits on offer for you: Holiday starting at 29 days rising to 31 days after 12 months (includes bank holidays and a personal day)Competitive retirement savings plan Tesco will match up to 7.5% of your contributionLife assurance 5 x your contractual payColleague discount card including a 2nd card for a family member after 3 months serviceThis includes:15% off after every pay day for a four-day period and 10% the rest of the month on most Tesco purchasesUniform providedJoin our share schemes 'Buy As You Earn' and 'Save As You Earn' after 3 months service Hourly Rate £12.79. 

 

------------

 

 

Tesco's group revenues jumped by 5.9% to £30.4bn for the six months compared with the same period last year. Operating profits increased by 28% to £1.3bn for the period.

 

 

Wouldn't get out of bed for £12.79 an hour. Definitely wouldn't get out of bed for that much for such a shit job and definitely definitely wouldn't get out of bed for that when the company I work for turned over £1.3bn in profits over 6 months. 

 

Just throwing it out there. 

 

 

[FoxyPV]

2 hours ago, filthyfox said:

Shall we kill all mysogenisy pigs?

What?!

[filthyfox]

4 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

What?!

Boris ... hates misogyny and also appears to hate pigs

[UpTheLeagueFox]

 

[UpTheLeagueFox]

17 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

Wouldn't get out of bed for £12.79 an hour.

Approx £27k per annum (plus benefits), not a bad wage actually.

If I was guaranteed 27k + benefits for the next 15 years of my working life I'd take that more than happily right now.

[FerrisBueller]

4 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

 

 

Absolutely fvcking mental that he can - and will - get away with repeating a line this dense about where meat comes from as if that's what farmers are complaining about.

 

I know it's a cliche but imagine if Diane Abbott, or to be honest, anyone else in the country kept saying something this stupid on air.

[Brizzle Fox]

What a bizarre speech, even by his standards. Was he drunk or just knows that he can say whatever he wants and it will make no difference to his supporters. Odd. 

 

I might have got the wrong end of the stick but the focus seemed to be very much how badly the country had been governed in the last decade or so and needs sorting out. Trying to remember who has been in charge for all that time.  Wow. 

 

Anyway I'm sure the Tories will go up another 6% in the polls tomorrow and Johnson's popularity similarly, so ultimately can be judged as a thumping success. 

 

I don't understand the British (sorry English) at all. 

 

[Innovindil]

18 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Approx £27k per annum (plus benefits), not a bad wage actually.

If I was guaranteed 27k + benefits for the next 15 years of my working life I'd take that more than happily right now.

Then boy do I have good news for you. You're just a HGV licence away from guaranteeing yourself that til retirement. 

[CosbehFox]

56 minutes ago, Zear0 said:

Build Back Beaver!  This is bizarre, like watching Spud's interview in Trainspotting at times.

Was like a shit Live At The Apollo act 

[LVFox]

22 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Approx £27k per annum (plus benefits), not a bad wage actually.

If I was guaranteed 27k + benefits for the next 15 years of my working life I'd take that more than happily right now.

There was a good caller on LBC yesterday, who rightly pointed out that plenty of people would love to earn that money doing that job, but what they lack is the 5k needed to complete all the courses for a HGV licence.

 

I trust those figures are correct, but regardless, surely this government could have seen the shortage and given grants/loans to those wanting to train, similar to student loans.

 

 

[Innovindil]

26 minutes ago, LVocey said:

There was a good caller on LBC yesterday, who rightly pointed out that plenty of people would love to earn that money doing that job, but what they lack is the 5k needed to complete all the courses for a HGV licence.

 

I trust those figures are correct, but regardless, surely this government could have seen the shortage and given grants/loans to those wanting to train, similar to student loans.

 

 

So what's the difference between Tesco training someone to use a till and Tesco training someone to drive a HGV? Why must the government fund billion quid businesses labour needs. 

 

Want people with the skills you need? TRAIN THEM. 

[LVFox]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

So what's the difference between Tesco training someone to use a till and Tesco training someone to drive a HGV? Why must the government fund billion quid businesses labour needs. 

 

Want people with the skills you need? TRAIN THEM. 

A valid point, but I'd argue from an employers point of view, Tesco can easily recover any time/money spent training someone on a till if the last one decides to go to Morrisons.

Whereas the outlay on HGV courses would lead to either lower wages for trainees (which wouldn't entice people into the profession), or an agreement where costs are repaid to Tesco if said employee moved away from that role shortly after receiving the training/qualifications. In that scenario the power is given to the employer rather than the employee and we are back to square 1.

[urban.spaceman]

 

 

They can't even run email.

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, LVocey said:

A valid point, but I'd argue from an employers point of view, Tesco can easily recover any time/money spent training someone on a till if the last one decides to go to Morrisons.

Whereas the outlay on HGV courses would lead to either lower wages for trainees (which wouldn't entice people into the profession), or an agreement where costs are repaid to Tesco if said employee moved away from that role shortly after receiving the training/qualifications. In that scenario the power is given to the employer rather than the employee and we are back to square 1.

People leaving after you've trained them is the risk you take to get the skills you need. Engineering firms are going through the exact same thing. A whole generation of engineers was wiped out when manufacturing shifted overseas. If you want a decent engineer now, you take on an apprentice and you teach them. Can they up sticks and waste years of investment and dealing with all their mistakes? Of course they can, but by the time that happens, there's usually mutual respect between the employer (happy to get a new worker) and the employee (happy to have a chance at a decent living). 

 

If these countrywide titans started giving the slightest of shits about the people that work under them, and started treating them like humans and training them and investing in them, their workforce problems would diminish.

 

And we'd all be better for it. 

[LVFox]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

If these countrywide titans started giving the slightest of shits about the people that work under them, and started treating them like humans and training them and investing in them, their workforce problems would diminish.

 

And we'd all be better for it. 

I 100% agree with this...but I fear there are thought patterns far too entrenched for that to be the case.