Not The Politics Thread.

[Górnik Leicester]

3 hours ago, RoboFox said:

Most don't care until it directly, and significantly affects them. The good old right-wing attitude. 

 

It's a mixture of total apathy, and straight up ignorance, sadly. Many people aren't interested in politics, which I can empathise with TBH. 

 

However it means that they base their votes on totally top-line policies, and headline reporting - and there's only going to be one outcome in this country when people consume the toxic drivel pumped out by the likes of the Mail and the Sun en masse.

Was always told when I was a kid, that "politics and religion should not be discussed". Took me a while to figure out it was because those saying it didn't want to have to justify their pretty terrible opinions.

 

That failure to discuss politics has led to so much apathy, I reckon. When there's apathy, the shysters always do well out of it.

[RoboFox]

51 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Proper "poor me, poor me" stuff in his resignation speech too, crying about the "cruel world of politics". Wasn't so cruel when you were making a mint out of it, was it?

Sanctimonious ****. 

 

You don't get to pocket £100k a year lobbying then come out with that woe me bollocks. 

 

The worst he would've had to endure was 30 days out of parliament, but as a result of the recent strategic genius by the Tories:

 

- His political career is over

- The Conservative party chief whip's reputation (or what was left of it) is fvcked. 

- All his colleagues who backed him have just given ammunition to anyone who wants to throw around sleaze / corruption allegations

 

...And the electorate will remember it for all of ten minutes before retaking their "my mate Boris and his jolly band of freedom fighters" rhetoric. 

 

So frustrating. 

[davieG]

'Jealous' MP Claudia Webbe 'showed little remorse' but was 'saved from jail by good character

 

She was convicted over messages that included one threatening to throw acid at a friend of her boyfriend

 

How can someone who threatens to throw acid at someone be deemed to have good character?

[Leicester_Loyal]

Politics is in the ****ing gutter, haven't been arsed about it since midway through last year. I'd rather watch my mum and dad at it than vote for any of the main parties again, all corrupt *****.

[Sampson]

More rioting in Belfast last night. I honestly believed we'd never get back to this point. Still cannot believe that a government has actively put in place legislation they they must have known could see an end to a very hard-fought peace over decades, within its own country 

Edited 4 November 2021 by Sampson

[bovril]

57 minutes ago, Górnik Leicester said:

Was always told when I was a kid, that "politics and religion should not be discussed". Took me a while to figure out it was because those saying it didn't want to have to justify their pretty terrible opinions.

 

That failure to discuss politics has led to so much apathy, I reckon. When there's apathy, the shysters always do well out of it.

It's also because we are quite passive aggressive, avoiding conflict is important and people are very uncomfortable with debate. Maybe why our online discourse is so intense.

 

Also most of us are monolingual and so not only are we unaware of what goes on in other countries, we see things from a very anglophone perspective, which is perhaps why we import so many debates from America. You saw this in debates over Europe where both remainers and leavers have a very weird view of the EU.

[Brizzle Fox]

1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Just wow. If I was the judge and the defence barrister tried to play that card I'd have doubled her sentence... At least. Disgrace. 

[ealingfox]

1 hour ago, urban.spaceman said:

Excellent post and I agree 100%.

 

 

This will be controversial but I'll risk taking flak on it because I just need to say it. 

 

Corbyn and Momentum are directly responsible for this government. They failed to learn from the Michael Foot era and persisted with someone who was clearly unpopular within his own party and whose judgement of character and situations was so poor it gave the Tories the easiest ammunition in the world. With Miliband the best they could come up with was 'doesn't he look daft when eating a bacon sandwich' or ‘Edstone lol’; With Corbyn they could say he lays wreaths for terrorists, has a knack of being involved with anti-semites and here are pictures of him actually doing it. The context was lost because it was an easy headline. He was such a poor judgement of character that two of the MPs he dropped into safe seats in Peterborough and Leicester are now convicted criminals. The latter of whom is sentenced today for harassment and threatening to throw acid over a love rival, and Corbyn gave her a ****ing character reference. 

 

He should have gone after Brexit, he definitely should have gone after 2017 but he persisted and instead of listening to everyone telling him he’d lose badly, he went up against one of the most hated governments and didn’t just lose badly, he gifted them the biggest majority they’d had for 80 years. Even then he still wouldn’t ****ing go and was convinced they’d won the argument. To steal a Jonathan Pie quote about Hilary losing to Trump: how SHIT do you have to be to lose to that?

 

People moan about Starmer being useless but what the **** is he suppose to do? They have an 80 seat majority. The only way this government will lose a vote is if enough of their MPs vote against their own side, which just won’t happen, especially when their PM literally kicks them out of the ****ing party for not obeying him. Even Churchill’s grandson wasn’t safe. 

 

For Starmer currently it’s like he’s a Leyton Orient team playing against Man City on Yeovil’s old sloped pitch with Stevie Wonder in goal and half the team out with coronavirus. Defeat is inevitable. Unless he pulls off a miracle, which he probably won’t, the very best we can hope for is that he claws back enough seats to make the next leader more able to be effective. Keeping another far left loon out of the running for that is the most important thing he can do. 

 

We are perennially ****ed and I will never forgive Corbyn, Momentum or his supporters for it. 

 

Nope, sorry. The Conservative Party and the people who voted for them are responsible for this government. If you're one of them, take responsibility for your own actions, don't blame other people.

 

However you felt about Corbyn, he and his iteration of the Labour Party actively campaigned against having a Conservative government. Even if you didn't want to vote for them, nobody was forced to vote Conservative.

[LiberalFox]

1 hour ago, davieG said:

'Jealous' MP Claudia Webbe 'showed little remorse' but was 'saved from jail by good character

 

She was convicted over messages that included one threatening to throw acid at a friend of her boyfriend

 

How can someone who threatens to throw acid at someone be deemed to have good character?

Presumably she hasn't got a previous criminal record. 

[FoxyPV]

New poll out today

Tories +3

 

I fvxking give up. What the fvck is wrong with the English

 

 

[Buce]

6 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

New poll out today

Tories +3

 

I fvxking give up. What the fvck is wrong with the English

 

 

 

How long have you got?

[HighPeakFox]

15 minutes ago, FoxyPV said:

New poll out today

Tories +3

 

I fvxking give up. What the fvck is wrong with the English

A decent percentage of the population is ill educated, has a very short attention span and celebrates wilful ignorance. And the English is a deeply conservative people. 

[SecretPro]

1 minute ago, HighPeakFox said:

A decent percentage of the population is ill educated, has a very short attention span and celebrates wilful ignorance. And the English is a deeply conservative people. 

56% Gammon too don't forget. 

 

It's like Paterson, interview with constituents on channel 4, some said good riddance, one elderly woman said it was sad and that he was a good man. Either she's thick as shit and her idea of a good man is wildly different to the norm or she literally has no idea what's gone on and just thinks some poor bloke has lost his job for no apparent reason. 

[LiberalFox]

Generally I find most old people have no idea what is going on around them, apart from that they are good drivers. 

[String fellow]

4 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

Generally I find most old people have no idea what is going on around them, apart from that they are good drivers. 

Is ageism of the few remaining -isms that's still okay?

[Sampson]

19 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

A decent percentage of the population is ill educated, has a very short attention span and celebrates wilful ignorance. And the English is a deeply conservative people. 

I don't think we are. I think most English people vote anti-Tory, it's just the voting system that keeps that in power by splitting the opposition votes across several parties.

[HighPeakFox]

2 hours ago, Sampson said:

I don't think we are. I think most English people vote anti-Tory, it's just the voting system that keeps that in power by splitting the opposition votes across several parties.

Please note two things - I said English, not British, and conservative NOT Conservative

[Sampson]

11 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

Please note two things - I said English, not British, and conservative NOT Conservative

I know that. but if you combine the Labour, LibDems and Green votes in England alone it's still more than the Tories.

[HighPeakFox]

12 minutes ago, Sampson said:

I know that. but if you combine the Labour, LibDems and Green votes in England alone it's still more than the Tories.

Possibly... But my point is lots of those people are conservative in nature. My entire family is and has never voted Tory ever. 

[adam1]

22 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

Didn't happen of the year awards contender.

 

 

[urban.spaceman]

21 hours ago, SecretPro said:

Starmer is definitely PART of the problem though. For instance, like him or not, if Andy Burnham was in charge of Labour they would be doing significantly better in the polls.

Actually don't disagree - all we've had in the last few years is London based leaders. Burnham would be very good IMO.

 

20 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

Nope, sorry. The Conservative Party and the people who voted for them are responsible for this government. If you're one of them, take responsibility for your own actions, don't blame other people.

 

However you felt about Corbyn, he and his iteration of the Labour Party actively campaigned against having a Conservative government. Even if you didn't want to vote for them, nobody was forced to vote Conservative.

I didn't say they were solely the responsible. Obviously the Tory party and their supporters got them elected, but they were already in power and only increased their vote by 1% - around 300,000 votes. Every poll had them way ahead - all they had to do was maintain what they'd already got, which they did. 

 

Every poll had Labour behind and there was a very obvious and vocal dislike and distrust of Corbyn throughout the country and in Labour/centre left circles. He consistently put himself above what was right for the party and the country - then Labour lost 8% of their 2017 number, more than 2 and a half million people voting for other left leaning parties or abstaining all together. Like I said in the other post, he should have gone after Brexit, after the 2017 defeat, after every scandal within the party, for the good of the party and the country. I'm blaming Corbyn for not being good enough and for not giving the electorate a better choice. And I say that as someone who has always voted Labour (except tactically the Lib Dems in 2010 to try to keep the Tories out, which backfired somewhat); despite living in Charnwood which is one of the safest Tory seats. 

[Dunge]

21 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

Nope, sorry. The Conservative Party and the people who voted for them are responsible for this government. If you're one of them, take responsibility for your own actions, don't blame other people.

 

However you felt about Corbyn, he and his iteration of the Labour Party actively campaigned against having a Conservative government. Even if you didn't want to vote for them, nobody was forced to vote Conservative.

I feel like there’s actually a lot to unpack here, so…

 

- Did I vote Conservative at the last election?  Yes.

- Knowing what I do now, would I vote the same way again if presented with the exact same situation?  Yes. It remains the easiest vote I’ve ever cast, in no small part because all of the alternatives were entirely unpalatable in the circumstances.

- Did Corbyn and his actions affect my vote?  Yes, in a sense. Not saying I wouldn’t have voted Conservative anyway but he made the vote vehement being the leader of the primary alternative.

- Should Corbyn take some responsibility for the current Conservative government?  Of course; he was the leader of the opposition. If he’s not going to take responsibility for an election result four years into his tenure as leader, what is he doing there?

- Should I take responsibility for the current Conservative government?  I guess. It is a democracy. But if you’re expecting me to traipse through Leicester holding a placard with the word “Shame” above my head then you’ll have a long wait. Frankly I’m not quite sure what this even means in practice, although I see it written a lot.

- If there was another election next month based on the situation now rather than the situation then, would I vote Conservative?  I don’t know. I like Starmer but fear Labour look a bit wet in general. Meanwhile the Conservatives are massively lacking integrity, particularly their leader. I’d say Labour are in the lead for me right now but it’s not decided. Greens are too far left and Lib Dems I don’t see the point.

[Izzy]

1 hour ago, Dunge said:

I feel like there’s actually a lot to unpack here, so…

 

- Did I vote Conservative at the last election?  Yes.

- Knowing what I do now, would I vote the same way again if presented with the exact same situation?  Yes. It remains the easiest vote I’ve ever cast, in no small part because all of the alternatives were entirely unpalatable in the circumstances.

- Did Corbyn and his actions affect my vote?  Yes, in a sense. Not saying I wouldn’t have voted Conservative anyway but he made the vote vehement being the leader of the primary alternative.

- Should Corbyn take some responsibility for the current Conservative government?  Of course; he was the leader of the opposition. If he’s not going to take responsibility for an election result four years into his tenure as leader, what is he doing there?

- Should I take responsibility for the current Conservative government?  I guess. It is a democracy. But if you’re expecting me to traipse through Leicester holding a placard with the word “Shame” above my head then you’ll have a long wait. Frankly I’m not quite sure what this even means in practice, although I see it written a lot.

- If there was another election next month based on the situation now rather than the situation then, would I vote Conservative?  I don’t know. I like Starmer but fear Labour look a bit wet in general. Meanwhile the Conservatives are massively lacking integrity, particularly their leader. I’d say Labour are in the lead for me right now but it’s not decided. Greens are too far left and Lib Dems I don’t see the point.

Brave post my fellow cretin 

[Voll Blau]

Sensing a bit of a change of tone from Starmer since this Paterson thing began. Feel he's becoming more aggressive in tone and much less "softly, softly" when it comes to criticising the Tories. It's long overdue too, think he realises the era of trying to do right for the common good hasn't got him or Labour anywhere.

 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/keir-starmer-one-rule-boris-johnson-friends-one-for-rest-of-us-1286377?utm_term=Autofeed&ito=social_itw_theipaper&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1636125355

[LiberalFox]

If Labour really cared about ending Conservative dominance of British politics they would support PR.