Brendan Rodgers

[CosbehFox]

9 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Craig Shakespeare got us to the quarter finals of the Champions League.

 

Rodgers can’t even get us to qualify from our group in the Europa League.

That’s a stretch that Shakespeare did that.  

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Wasyls Pec Deck said:

I think there’s clearly a mentality issue. We seem to get up for big games v PL top 6 but often go missing in other games or just arrogantly think we can turn up and win. And then when we get behind in those games there isn’t the mentality to claw it back. There are so many examples it’s not worth highlighting them.

Not sure that’s true of this season 

 

we’ve been woeful in a few games and only started playing once the game was effectively over ….

[st albans fox]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

That’s a stretch that Shakespeare did that.  

Indeed - Boris would have been proud of the post ….

[suffolk fox]

9 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Craig Shakespeare got us to the quarter finals of the Champions League.

 

Rodgers can’t even get us to qualify from our group in the Europa League.

This is post of the year and surely a wind up???  Trolling at its finest, Craig bloody Shakespeare the whale on the touchline now at Norwich...................

[daddylonglegs]

14 minutes ago, suffolk fox said:

This is post of the year and surely a wind up???  Trolling at its finest, Craig bloody Shakespeare the whale on the touchline now at Norwich...................

Craig bloody shakespeare with his bloody premier league medal and bloody Champions League knockout wins! fraud!

[suffolk fox]

6 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

Craig bloody shakespeare with his bloody premier league medal and bloody Champions League knockout wins! fraud!

won for him by the team and Claudio Ranieri and the one game in charge in the Champions league.

[smudgerfox]

I don’t think you can entirely divorce injuries from a more general mismanagement. 

Of course Forfana’s injury was completely unexpected, at the worst possible time and a major obstacle to playing BR’s preferred style. Let’s all agree on that. 

Evans is I think 34 and starting to pick up injuries when playing three times a week. That was apparent last season. I don’t doubt his presence is a big miss but to think he might get through 50 plus games , even in a good season, is I think way over optimistic. He was also pulled before the start of last season’s Newcastle match to apparently disastrous effect. He didn’t get through the Cup Final. We needed his long term replacement at the club at the start of this season, even before Forfana was crocked. This was particularly urgent in view of Soyuncu’s apparent decline - which got worse over the summer but had started at the end of last season. 

 

Justin’s injury was handled very well until he was asked to play three games in a week. Ricardo was also rushed back too soon and is only now playing like a player who is injury free. Castange looks like it was one of those things. Thomas has been overplayed because of Bertrand’s poor performances and now injury. If Bertrand was playing while inured I wouldn’t be surprised, if not then his lack of pace and recovery made him a most unsuitable signing in the first place. Even with this injury list - Benkovic apparently had no prospect of ever being asked to turn out but was still given a place in the Premier squad - at the expense of Mendy - whose inclusion might have made Hamza a more permanent option in central defence. 

I would add that it would have been known at the start of the season that no adequate defensive option, particularly at centre back, existed in the u-23 set up. Oh and let’s not forget that BR apparently prefers to work with a small squad. 

 

So yes, if has been unlucky to have so many injuries amongst our defenders. It’s true that most teams would have suffered a drop in performance after such a calamitous few months. But it is also true that some of the injuries have been self-inflicted by a kind of snowball effect - a lack of high quality cover generally has meant that the uninjured  players have been overplayed and picked up their own injuries. 
 

In BR’s time there have been quite a few instances of injured players having to be pulled pre match or subbed shortly into it. Ricardo had two botched comebacks. And what about Maddison on Sunday? How can you not detect a player is ill and unfit to play until he’s been on the pitch for 15 minutes? This is Sunday League sports science.  
 

Look at Wolves on Sunday. Any of their three central defenders would walk into our team right now and they didn’t need to deploy Bolly who would as well. The week before West Ham lost Zouma and we’re able to field Diop. We are criminally lacking central defensive cover and have paid a heavy price for that. 
 

 

 

[Bluetintedspecs]

11 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...there isn't much change when he plays Nacho or Daka upfront as lone strikers!!!

He then has the option to take off Ndidi and bring on Nacho,  having two upfront would have given us a better chance, but Rodgers will not move away from the lone striker role with these two players. There is no learning by Rodgers he will continue to do the same thing until the media comes out and questions it. He plays Perez come what may, game after game and we all asked the question, why!!

 Yet now he cannot get a game, irrespective of the form shown by under performing players.

Perez IN ?

[Muzzy_Larsson]

14 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

You’ve misunderstood my comment - I said two outright favourites - Strachan and Lennon when they qualified from the CL group stages didn’t have a team with the quality of say Man City or PSG to contend for the second place to qualify. Let alone Gladbach as well. 
 

Lennon had a group of Barca, Spartak and Benfica 

 

Strachan had a group of Man U, Copenhagen and Benfica. Then a group of Shakhtar, Milan and Benfica. 
 

Them groups have no clear favourite for the second spot ala Man City or PSG

 

I don't see what difference this makes, even the first season Gladbach beat us with ease at home under Rodgers and we got utterly pasted by both PSG and Barcelona by 6 and 7 goals. None of what you say takes away from the fact Rodgers made on the whole a mess of it with us in Europe. 

 

The managers I mentioned and pretty much most Celtic managers in my lifetime have had a big scalp in terms of beating a top European side at Celtic park, the closest Rodgers came was a great draw with Man City at home in his first game then it was all pretty much downhill after that.

Edited 22 February 2022 by Muzzy_Larsson

[Muzzy_Larsson]

14 hours ago, Corky said:

Which is why the 5th place finishes, whilst being impressive league campaigns, didn't really lead to anything tangible beyond that and people are questioning the true worth. A two-legged defeat to Slavia Prague, failing to score in both games with the second leg at home, and a group stage exit after a defeat to Legia Warsaw who are near the bottom of their own league. It is a very poor showing and no hiding beyond any resources argument on this one.

Fully agree.

[CosbehFox]

14 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I don't see what difference this makes, even the first season Gladbach beat us with ease at home under Rodgers and we got utterly pasted by both PSG and Barcelona by 6 and 7 goals. None of what you say takes away from the fact Rodgers made on the whole a mess of it with us in Europe. 

 

The managers I mentioned and pretty much most Celtic managers in my lifetime have had a big scalp in terms of beating a top European side at Celtic park, the closest Rodgers came was a great draw with Man City at home in his first game then it was all pretty much downhill after that.

Mid 2010s Manchester City and Paris St Germain are far better teams than mid 2000s Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk 

[sacreblueits442]

12 hours ago, ealingfox said:

I'll not give anyone stick for doing it because its an Internet forum and there are sometimes useful nuggets, but if you stick duff info on here under the pretense of being "ITK", well its not ITK if it was wrong...

....with the various noises coming out regarding what happened, it just appeared his informant jumped the gun!!!

Things change even when you are lead to believe a certain situation is about to lead to a dismissal, the second text he received he said confirmed that he was on his way out.

 Just jumped the gun.

[Fox92]

12 hours ago, jim5000 said:

Craig Shakespeare got us to the quarter finals of the Champions League.

 

Rodgers can’t even get us to qualify from our group in the Europa League.

 

2 hours ago, daddylonglegs said:

Craig bloody shakespeare with his bloody premier league medal and bloody Champions League knockout wins! fraud!

People banging on about Shakespeare can fvck off. I like him as a coach but not as a manager, he would have taken us down hence we were 18th when Puel took over.

 

No manager since Shakespeare has had us anywhere near 15th let alone 18th. It was pathetic under Shakespeare, aside from Brighton at home we were second best in every game including against newly promoted Huddersfield Town. A penalty at Huddersfield, and a late late goal against Bournemouth, were good enough to get draws, yes draws.

 

Fair play if you want Rodgers out but don't compare him with Shakespeare and don't pretend it was better under Shakespeare, because it wasn't.

 

Also, people like to suggest Rodgers took over a good side so lets apply that to Shakespeare also who took over the fvcking Champions of England. A team that had players in their prime; Vardy, Mahrez, Drinkwater, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan.

 

People forgetting how bad it was is so annoying.

Edited 22 February 2022 by Fox92

[Muzzy_Larsson]

29 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Mid 2010s Manchester City and Paris St Germain are far better teams than mid 2000s Benfica and Shakhtar Donetsk 

They're both poorer than Champions league winning AC Milan and champions league winning Man Utd (most of the same players won the CL in 2007), both sides we beat at home. Whereas PSG humped us 5-0 on our own doorstep and took 7 off us in Paris. They were also poorer than the Barcelona side Strachan's side faced in the last 16 that included Henry, Ronaldinho, Messi, etc, another side we fared well against.

 

We're going round in circles a bit here but the crux of it is Rodgers record in Europe with Celtic, given the resources he had, in comparison to other managers was pretty poor and I'd be surprised if you found another Celtic fan who'd argue otherwise. It goes deeper than just the results too, his naievity and stubborness in Europe was a huge part of the issue, trying to play teams like Barcelona and PSG at their own game and getting utterly horsed. Other managers in the past in Europe at least realised they had to be more pragmatic and we weren't good enough to play these teams at their own game and this was probably why their results were a bit better.

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

They're both poorer than Champions league winning AC Milan and champions league winning Man Utd (most of the same players won the CL in 2007), both sides we beat at home. Whereas PSG humped us 5-0 on our own doorstep and took 7 off us in Paris. They were also poorer than the Barcelona side Strachan's side faced in the last 16 that included Henry, Ronaldinho, Messi, etc, another side we fared well against.

 

We're going round in circles a bit here but the crux of it is Rodgers record in Europe with Celtic, given the resources he had, in comparison to other managers was pretty poor and I'd be surprised if you found another Celtic fan who'd argue otherwise. It goes deeper than just the results too, his naievity and stubborness in Europe was a huge part of the issue, trying to play teams like Barcelona and PSG at their own game and getting utterly horsed. Other managers in the past in Europe at least realised they had to be more pragmatic and we weren't good enough to play these teams at their own game and this was probably why their results were a bit better.

You qualify 2nd in the group. You seem to ignore that. The competition for that second place was much harder than Strachan and Lennon faced. The quality of the second seeds was much strong 
 

Bayern Munich and Barcelona were the equilvant of AC Milan and Man United eg the top seeds.
 

Edited 22 February 2022 by Cardiff_Fox

[Gazza M]

Very disappointed with the news he has the backing of the club. For me he is not the man to rebuild a side. I can see us limping (literally) to 40 points ish and then the fcucker walking in the summer to another job leaving a bloody mess behind him. 

 

[daddylonglegs]

1 hour ago, Fox92 said:

 

People banging on about Shakespeare can fvck off. I like him as a coach but not as a manager, he would have taken us down hence we were 18th when Puel took over.

 

No manager since Shakespeare has had us anywhere near 15th let alone 18th. It was pathetic under Shakespeare, aside from Brighton at home we were second best in every game including against newly promoted Huddersfield Town. A penalty at Huddersfield, and a late late goal against Bournemouth, were good enough to get draws, yes draws.

 

Fair play if you want Rodgers out but don't compare him with Shakespeare and don't pretend it was better under Shakespeare, because it wasn't.

 

Also, people like to suggest Rodgers took over a good side so lets apply that to Shakespeare also who took over the fvcking Champions of England. A team that had players in their prime; Vardy, Mahrez, Drinkwater, Kasper, Fuchs, Morgan.

 

People forgetting how bad it was is so annoying.

A) relax, weird reason to tell people to **** off. Was merely pointing out Shakespeare had some good moments with us. 

 

B) Rodgers currently has us bottom of the form table, we haven’t kept an away clean sheet all season & xG has us 15th in the table  

 

c) people forgetting how bad it was is annoying you’re right. It’s not as bad as people failing to realise how crap we are now! 

[Fox92]

4 minutes ago, daddylonglegs said:

A) relax, weird reason to tell people to **** off. Was merely pointing out Shakespeare had some good moments with us. 

 

B) Rodgers currently has us bottom of the form table, we haven’t kept an away clean sheet all season & xG has us 15th in the table  

 

c) people forgetting how bad it was is annoying you’re right. It’s not as bad as people failing to realise how crap we are now! 

I'm fed up of people bringing Shakespeare up. It's a joke. Rodgers has us bottom of the "form table", a table that Shakespeare constantly had us bottom of. When Rodgers has us in the bottom three, like Shakespeare did, then I'll concede.

 

I can realise how bad we are currently. But we're still better than we were under Shakespeare.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

You qualify 2nd in the group. You seem to ignore that. The competition for that second place was much harder than Strachan and Lennon faced. The quality of the second seeds was much strong 
 

Bayern Munich and Barcelona were the equilvant of AC Milan and Man United eg the top seeds.
 

I think your splitting hairs, you can dive so deep into the stats to suit most narratives, the reality is on more than one occassion Rodgers got us absolutely embaressed in Europe. I'm not saying Rodgers should have qualified, even had Lennon and Strachan not made the last 16 they still took some big scalps like beating the reigning European Champions at home, beating the likes of Barcelona, Man Utd, AC Milan. Rodgers most notable european result in his time at us was a draw at home to Man City.

 

You try to defend how he performs in Europe but even Celtic aside his record at his other clubs in Europe is shocking at both Liverpool and Leicester.

 

I get things are subjective but it's a really hard ask to try and describe Rodgers' overall performance in Europe as anything other than bad throughout his career thus far.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

5 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I'm fed up of people bringing Shakespeare up. It's a joke. Rodgers has us bottom of the "form table", a table that Shakespeare constantly had us bottom of. When Rodgers has us in the bottom three, like Shakespeare did, then I'll concede.

 

I can realise how bad we are currently. But we're still better than we were under Shakespeare.

Playing devil's advocate to a point here but is waiting until it gets that bad perhaps a risky approach. Sort of arrest the dangerous slide before it happens type thing. If it gets that bad of course.

[Tommy Fresh]

16 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I'm fed up of people bringing Shakespeare up. It's a joke. Rodgers has us bottom of the "form table", a table that Shakespeare constantly had us bottom of. When Rodgers has us in the bottom three, like Shakespeare did, then I'll concede.

 

I can realise how bad we are currently. But we're still better than we were under Shakespeare.

I agree with you in terms of actual managerial ability and I don't think Shakespeare is anywhere near the level of Rodgers and there's a reason that spell was his only job as a number 1. But constantly had us bottom of the form table? The bloke got given the job because our form under his interim spell was great. I bet there actually isn't much between their win percentages when you look in to it.

[Fox92]

28 minutes ago, Tommy Fresh said:

I agree with you in terms of actual managerial ability and I don't think Shakespeare is anywhere near the level of Rodgers and there's a reason that spell was his only job as a number 1. But constantly had us bottom of the form table? The bloke got given the job because our form under his interim spell was great. I bet there actually isn't much between their win percentages when you look in to it.

I was talking about once he was full time manager.

 

But even before that, as temp manager, he ended the season with 2 wins in 8 and that includes a 6-1 defeat at home to Spurs.

 

Plus the football was terrible. We were dire and he is nowhere near Rodgers' level. Comparisons, and/or "under Shakespeare" are just completely wrong. We'd have gone down.

 

As I said, if you want Rodgers out then okay but don't compare with the two previous managers who had us in worse form.

Edited 22 February 2022 by Fox92

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, daddylonglegs said:

B) Rodgers currently has us bottom of the form table, we haven’t kept an away clean sheet all season & xG has us 15th in the table  

...we are over achieving again!!!

[Tommy Fresh]

10 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I was talking about once he was full time manager.

 

But even before that, as temp manager, he ended the season with 2 wins in 8 and that includes a 6-1 defeat at home to Spurs.

 

Plus the football was terrible. We were dire and he is nowhere near Rodgers' level. Comparisons, and/or "under Shakespeare" are just completely wrong. We'd have gone down.

 

As I said, if you want Rodgers out then okay but don't compare with the two previous managers who had us in worse form.

Oh yeah I agree Shakespeare wasn't great and comparisons to Rodgers are ridiculous really. Fair enough if you meant more when he went full time, as I said there's a reason he has gone back to being a number 2. It was more a point that he did have a few not terrible spells  😂

Edited 22 February 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[sacreblueits442]

5 hours ago, suffolk fox said:

This is post of the year and surely a wind up???  Trolling at its finest, Craig bloody Shakespeare the whale on the touchline now at Norwich...................

...a touch out of order..!!!

Terrific coach, would still like him here, it was a difficult call to take him on board as the manager. He brought the players through to close off the season and staying in the League.  

  Hard to get your views on playing across as we were pretty set in how we played being on the counter. He will never get the role offered again but he is an ace coach and I am sorry we had to sacrifice his services when we lost him as a manager.