Brendan Rodgers

[volpeazzurro]

29 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

When you see us paying the likes of Bertrand, Vestergaard, Perez and Praet north of 70k a week each there's still plenty of improving we can do on thst business model!

I agree, however, with Perez, Vestergaard and Bertrand, if true, were they not specifically Rodgers requested signings? I think he certainly acknowledges the Perez one. If so, were three of that 4 not therefore a departure from our previous usual business model?

 

There will always be a certain percentage of poor signings but in more recent times and prior to these particular one's, our record was really quite good and acknowledged as such.

 

It's a model we need to continue with imo whether Rodgers likes it or not. I think it's his interjection that many people fear.

[J. James]

7 hours ago, honeybradger said:

what is the point on arguing about whether we have the 9th highest player wage bill in the league or not? I'm sure that not a single fan would put our squad as the 9th best in the league or even 8th, we're undeniably in the 5-7th range in the league for our squad ability, anywhere within that is arguable but outside of it is not. With this in mind player ability surely outranks wages in terms of expected squad performance, case and point manchester united.

I love the word "undeniably"... There are measurement systems for many things in this world, Beaufort scale for wind speed, Moh scale for hardness etc etc,  for player ability its called "the Premier league" and it doesn't have biased opinions or tell lies.

We are where we deserve to be and our position in the League "undeniably" reflects our squads ability under Rodgers.

[Adrian]

Come on Brendan we're so close to another trophy..we all believe If that European title is won (big big if) that it would in part be down to your leadership and we'd appreciate and nod our heads towards you but still once that is achieved would you mind awfully moving on..I can't cope with your Zen stoicism anymore

[Deeg67]

8 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I tire of this debate. 

 

Can we talk about his chapped lips for a bit? He looks like he's always in need of some vaseline. 

So are the players outside his circle of favorites…

[Royston.]

9 hours ago, foxile5 said:

I tire of this debate. 

 

Can we talk about his chapped lips for a bit? He looks like he's always in need of some vaseline. 

[Dahnsouff]

10 hours ago, l444ry said:

What was the wage bill and overheads when we won the League compared to everyone else? Hiding behind a Red Herring or providing a Glass Ceiling?

An outlier cannot be used to justify a norm

[filbertway]

Why aren't Brentford bottom of the league? It's almost like some clubs are better in the transfer market (when ego is removed) and quality of squad should be judged over how much is cost to assemble.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

15 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

I agree, however, with Perez, Vestergaard and Bertrand, if true, were they not specifically Rodgers requested signings? I think he certainly acknowledges the Perez one. If so, were three of that 4 not therefore a departure from our previous usual business model?

 

There will always be a certain percentage of poor signings but in more recent times and prior to these particular one's, our record was really quite good and acknowledged as such.

 

It's a model we need to continue with imo whether Rodgers likes it or not. I think it's his interjection that many people fear.

I said this way back when he was first appointed, he's a great coach but he's truly awful in the transfer market when left to his own devices. The absolute key thing I said back then was keeping him reigned in and working within the existing and very successful transfer model and not letting him go off piste. The problem is Rodgers builds up capital with high placed finishes, FA cup victory and gets ahead of himself and wants to dictate transfer policy. He needs to become aware that this is not his strong point and that he needs to delegate this or it will forever be his achilles heel in terms of how successful he is overall.

[volpeazzurro]

12 hours ago, J. James said:

I love the word "undeniably"... There are measurement systems for many things in this world, Beaufort scale for wind speed, Moh scale for hardness etc etc,  for player ability its called "the Premier league" and it doesn't have biased opinions or tell lies.

We are where we deserve to be and our position in the League "undeniably" reflects our squads ability under Rodgers.

I think the pertinent phrase there is that it reflects our squads abilities 'under Rodgers'.

 

No manager in fairness can make a silk purse out of a sows ear but 'undeniably' in other walks of life, some businesses thrive under different or better management with what assets they have.

 

In football though, could whoever the current manager of Grimsby get a better tune out of Liverpool FC than Klopp? I doubt it very much but, could Klopp equally get better out of Grimsby with what they've currently got? Quite possibly imo because Klopp, despite not having a host of international superstars there, he is undoubtedly a superb manager and would most likely be able to suck every last drop of talent out of what's available to him and have them running through walls. I doubt they'd make Europe but they'd improve somewhat 😅. 

 

Common sense and history dictates that usually, the monied teams will rise to the top. Yet effective recruitment, team building and management has a big say in who then actually gets in to the highest echelons of the top two.

 

Manchester United are absolutely huge,  there's no denying it but, their recruitment, team building and some management has been poor, it's there for all to see, particularly the recruitment etc. Liverpool on the other hand, financially, have spent nowhere near in comparison but their recruitment, team building and management models have been excellent. 

 

Leicester City in 2015/16 spent a pittance but their recruitment, team building and Ranieri's subsequent management of them for 1 year was exemplary and there can be all the twaddle about luck and the alignment of the stars you like but, it was ten points better than anyone else's model and nobody can get by on just luck foran entire season. It cannot be sustained however and things revert to type eventually. 

 

We are trying, I think, to be almost a halfway house between the two, sustainability dictates that as we can't compete financially. With the current model of recruitment, under the right management, who most importantly, can suck the best out of the talents of the players he has available to him (because financial reality dictates that he'll never have the money to go out and recruit a ready made Barcelona) and subsequently build an effective team, then a yoyo position somewhere within the top 6 can be viable imo. However, for me, because of all his baggage and philosophical preconceptions of how football has to be played, Rodgers is not the man for us. It requires a manager with an open mind and an ability to adapt to what he has available to him. To allow Rodgers to buy/recruit players to try and attain his particular intransigent style of football is a road to potential disaster. Arguably football has moved on anyway but he certainly won't have the money to buy the quality of 'ready to go' players required and continual round pegs square holes, making do all the time can't succeed. He's a one trick pony without vision for what's possible with what he's got. 

[FoxinNotts]

If he guides us to a ninth place finish and we win the ECL, it will be our third best season ever, in my opinion. Just for context. 

[volpeazzurro]

19 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I said this way back when he was first appointed, he's a great coach but he's truly awful in the transfer market when left to his own devices. The absolute key thing I said back then was keeping him reigned in and working within the existing and very successful transfer model and not letting him go off piste. The problem is Rodgers builds up capital with high placed finishes, FA cup victory and gets ahead of himself and wants to dictate transfer policy. He needs to become aware that this is not his strong point and that he needs to delegate this or it will forever be his achilles heel in terms of how successful he is overall.

Very insightful as usual and it certainly makes sense to me. I think I sometimes might go overboard with phrases like egotistical whereas sometimes it may be purely self belief which all good managers have to have. At least Ferguson though occasionally admitted that he got things wrong. 

[Deeg67]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

Why aren't Brentford bottom of the league? It's almost like some clubs are better in the transfer market (when ego is removed) and quality of squad should be judged over how much is cost to assemble.

Apples and oranges, though - they're really well-coached.

[J. James]

7 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I think the pertinent phrase there is that it reflects our squads abilities 'under Rodgers'.

 

No manager in fairness can make a silk purse out of a sows ear but 'undeniably' in other walks of life, some businesses thrive under different or better management with what assets they have.

 

In football though, could whoever the current manager of Grimsby get a better tune out of Liverpool FC than Klopp? I doubt it very much but, could Klopp equally get better out of Grimsby with what they've currently got? Quite possibly imo because Klopp, despite not having a host of international superstars there, he is undoubtedly a superb manager and would most likely be able to suck every last drop of talent out of what's available to him and have them running through walls. I doubt they'd make Europe but they'd improve somewhat 😅. 

 

Common sense and history dictates that usually, the monied teams will rise to the top. Yet effective recruitment, team building and management has a big say in who then actually gets in to the highest echelons of the top two.

 

Manchester United are absolutely huge,  there's no denying it but, their recruitment, team building and some management has been poor, it's there for all to see, particularly the recruitment etc. Liverpool on the other hand, financially, have spent nowhere near in comparison but their recruitment, team building and management models have been excellent. 

 

Leicester City in 2015/16 spent a pittance but their recruitment, team building and Ranieri's subsequent management of them for 1 year was exemplary and there can be all the twaddle about luck and the alignment of the stars you like but, it was ten points better than anyone else's model and nobody can get by on just luck foran entire season. It cannot be sustained however and things revert to type eventually. 

 

We are trying, I think, to be almost a halfway house between the two, sustainability dictates that as we can't compete financially. With the current model of recruitment, under the right management, who most importantly, can suck the best out of the talents of the players he has available to him (because financial reality dictates that he'll never have the money to go out and recruit a ready made Barcelona) and subsequently build an effective team, then a yoyo position somewhere within the top 6 can be viable imo. However, for me, because of all his baggage and philosophical preconceptions of how football has to be played, Rodgers is not the man for us. It requires a manager with an open mind and an ability to adapt to what he has available to him. To allow Rodgers to buy/recruit players to try and attain his particular intransigent style of football is a road to potential disaster. Arguably football has moved on anyway but he certainly won't have the money to buy the quality of 'ready to go' players required and continual round pegs square holes, making do all the time can't succeed. He's a one trick pony without vision for what's possible with what he's got. 

Some good points there most of which i agree with with the possible exception of the Klopp analogy, l firmly believe that as in real life some people - managers - are best suited to certain levels within the game and their skillset/expectations dont transfer to lower/higher skill levels and everything that accompanies that,  it may be that this applies to Rodgers.

Getting the best out of what you have is a rare talent and for the master of this l suppose Don Claudio is a prime example (if only for one magical season).

Leaving the ego at home and recognising your limitations are also rare talents.

I'm not sure our man possesses these.

[FLINTHAMFC]

20 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

Apples and oranges, though - they're really well-coached.

So if Brentford weren't 12th and instead finished 5th twice and won the fa cup, how well coached would you say they were?

[mazarron fox]

I think we need to look at the big picture. The last ten years have been an incredible journey that most clubs could only dream about. I agree things haven’t gone according to plan this year even though we are comfortably mid table and in the semi final of a European competition. We have played after the Roma away leg 14 European games this season which is almost half a season more compared to most clubs in the league. Take the top 6 out and it’s only us and west ham that have played so many.

More games means more injuries more squad rotation, strange combinations of players etc and with that more inconsistent performances. We need to let the coaching staff put right the frailties in defense and try to create more chances. Knee jerk reaction with managers rarely ends well unless it’s a quick fix for avoiding relegation. Everton and Man Utd are a case in point a rudderless ship drifting towards the abyss considering their wealth and history.

whatever happens  from here with our upcoming European semi that and a mid table finish coming on the back of last seasons FA cup win and our horrific early season injuries is hardly the end of the world.

COYF

[Captain...]

Rodgers suffers in the same way Southgate does, he's a pragmatist and a very successful one, but unfortunately pragmatic football is not exciting football, so when it doesn't work it looks awful. We are having our most successful sustained spell as a football club in my lifetime. Rodgers is a big part of that, yes he had a good base to build on, but he's also been hampered by a global pandemic, competing in Europe with a small squad and the inevitable injury crisis that comes with the above.

 

The approach isn't perfect, and I don't always agree with his conservative approach, I thought at the time 0-0 Vs PSV was probably a better result than a 1-0 win because we can't then try and hold on for 90 minutes away from home. I do back him as our manager and don't understand the constant undermining on here of someone has brought so many good things to this club. 

[Kilworthfox]

13 minutes ago, FLINTHAMFC said:

So if Brentford weren't 12th and instead finished 5th twice and won the fa cup, how well coached would you say they were?

You can't just take a micro viewpoint.

 

If we could field the team that won the 15/16 League, Where, with your best guess, we would finish this season?... 

 

If your guess is higher than 10th (which mine is easily!), One has to conclude that we have regressed since 2016. Unless 2016 was some sort of freak 10 points clear, blue moon, once in a lifetime moment? Which it wasn't.

 

There were clear reasons why over 9 months we obtained the best results:

 

Fabulous recruitment, previously.

A clear successful tactical strategy on the pitch.

Commitment from all players & staff.

We could defend very, very, well.

 

My point being, it clearly isn't all about coaching, however the captain of the ship, directs to the destination.

So my question again is... What are we trying to achieve by playing the way we do? I cant believe, that we are looking for most game control, but also to concede the most opportunities to score, that is illogical. That is the current situation, irrespective if you are Pro or Anti BR.

 

It's only getting worse & worse. You are all clinging to the hope of Conference Cup success... we may win it, who knows, but really is that the success you can plan from? Have confidence in? 

 

If we do win this cup, it does nothing, but sugar coat, the worsening failings that BR's methods are having on LCFC.

 

 

 

 

[Ric Flair]

12 minutes ago, Captain... said:

Rodgers suffers in the same way Southgate does, he's a pragmatist and a very successful one, but unfortunately pragmatic football is not exciting football, so when it doesn't work it looks awful. We are having our most successful sustained spell as a football club in my lifetime. Rodgers is a big part of that, yes he had a good base to build on, but he's also been hampered by a global pandemic, competing in Europe with a small squad and the inevitable injury crisis that comes with the above.

 

The approach isn't perfect, and I don't always agree with his conservative approach, I thought at the time 0-0 Vs PSV was probably a better result than a 1-0 win because we can't then try and hold on for 90 minutes away from home. I do back him as our manager and don't understand the constant undermining on here of someone has brought so many good things to this club. 

I don't get this notion that Brendan Rodgers is a pragmatic manager, he certainly hasn't always been. If you look at his time at Liverpool and Leicester (ignore Celtic as they will always score goals due to being vastly superior) and the football at Liverpool up to that final season was very attacking. At Leicester we've seen him alter his preferred methods and now I don't know what he's up to but he still doesn't suit trying to implement defensive control in a game.

[FLINTHAMFC]

I didn't, you did.

 

Where would we be? any team with Kante in it would be above 10th. I don't think we've regressed at all.

 

If playing poorly (and I don't think we have during Rodgers reign) means we win cups and finish 5th I'm all for it. I'd rather that than play beautiful football and win sod all.

 

I'm not pro or anti tbh. I would say Rodgers has added value to our club through his successes. If that were not the case I'm quite sure he would have been fired.

 

[Kilworthfox]

9 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't get this notion that Brendan Rodgers is a pragmatic manager, he certainly hasn't always been. If you look at his time at Liverpool and Leicester (ignore Celtic as they will always score goals due to being vastly superior) and the football at Liverpool up to that final season was very attacking. At Leicester we've seen him alter his preferred methods and now I don't know what he's up to but he still doesn't suit trying to implement defensive control in a game.

He's not at all. I think he's the least pragmatic manager I can think of. 

[Kilworthfox]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

So in one sentence you say "can't take a micro viewpoint" and then a couple later you say we've "regressed since 2016"? What? 

What? its 2022 when did you want to go back to, that would be relevant? 1884?

[Kilworthfox]

Just now, pmcla26 said:

He's not, but any manager in the league who has a defence of Amartey, Soyuncu and Thomas as 3/4's of his back line for much of the season is going to make sure the team isn't majorly open. 

OK so with that point in mind, how did he adapt? How did he protect his defenders?

 

Surely a top paid manager would do so, to ensure results are not too badly affected...

Edited 26 April 2022 by Kilworthfox

[Kilworthfox]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

No, it's just quite clear we haven't regressed since 2016 unless you're basing it solely on league position of 15/16 vs this season.

 

The squad as a whole is better, the club is "bigger", the training ground and stadium development, FA cup win, European campaigns... and, regardless of whether you're Rodgers "in" or "out", he's had more sustained success than any other PL manager of ours since we came back up.

AH I see you have chosen to speak about the club as a whole, rather than the first team results. Apologies this must have been my loose terminology. I was referring to on the pitch results.

 

According to your own analysis, We are a bigger club, with better facilities, a better squad, (not necessarily first 11), so shouldn't one expect better results on the pitch?

 

Or is that where my thinking is incorrect?

[Kilworthfox]

3 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

No, look at how Liverpool suffered last season. Even the best manager's cant make a below average defence suddenly turn world class.

So if our defence is below average, you would have assumed that this would have been risk assessed, and cover brought in, for eventualities, like injuries in all key areas?

[Dahnsouff]

3 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

AH I see you have chosen to speak about the club as a whole, rather than the first team results. Apologies this must have been my loose terminology. I was referring to on the pitch results.

 

According to your own analysis, We are a bigger club, with better facilities, a better squad, (not necessarily first 11), so shouldn't one expect better results on the pitch?

 

Or is that where my thinking is incorrect?

Yes, your thinking IS flawed, there are many other teams trying to do the same thing, this isn`t solitaire