Brendan Rodgers

[filbertway]

9 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I don't tbh. 

 

It just needs the right personnel in good form. 

 

There's not really a massive amount of difference between a 442 with Nacho up front with Vards and a 4231 or 4411. It's largely semantics. 

 

The important part is having round pegs in round holes playing confidently and in good form. 

 

Kasper 

Ricardo, Fofana, Evans, X

Ndidi, Tielemans

Lookman, Iheanacho, Barnes

Vardy 

 

That's probably our best possible 11 assuming everyone is fit. It's not really vastly different to Rodgers preferred formation, it's just got Iheanacho instead of Maddison and he's proven basically every game this season so far that he can do that job. 

 

But compare that team to how we lined up yesterday and four of the main defensive players are different. 

 

Ndidi, Fofana and Evans all unavailable and Ricardo in questionable form. The X at left back is either Castagne or JJ, the latter of whom is also unavailable. 

 

Now tell me how many other teams in the Premier League would be defensively solid missing four or five of their key defensive players? 

 

In all fairness to Rodgers, we definitely are overlooking how hard it is for him to be missing so many people still. 

 

I could deal with us looking shakey at the back if we were actually looking half decent going forwards. 

 

At the end of the day, he has Soyuncu, Ricardo and Castagne who have all proven to be good quality players at this level. It's not like he's throwing together a makeshift defence of 18 year old and out of position old heads.

 

There's no excuse for how little we seem to want to score goals or go and get bodies forwards. Palace seemed to look pretty comortable most of the game but made a couple of errors that cost them. If that was the other way around and we were taking the games to teams and then a few mistakes were costing us then fair play, you let the manager off. We don't and haven't looked like a team that wants to attack and put teams under pressure for a long long time now. Well until the 65-70 minute when Rodgers accepts hes got it wrong and sets us up to try and score.

[ajthefox]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Quite obviously because he's never getting a look in at any point during Rodgers' time here. 

I'm guessing it's fitness related but there's just not a chance Benkovic plays unless all our CBs get injured. 

 

So yes, I think at this moment in time he is worse than Amartey and Vestergaard. 

 

1 hour ago, turlo said:

He must be shocking as Championship clubs don't want to give him game time on loan or in cup games for us. If he really is that bad then why the f did Rodgers register him in the EPL & EL squads. 

Rodgers had Benko at Celtic too lets not forget. You have to seriously wonder why on Earth the bloke is still here. I don't recall there being much noise about us trying to shift him, but maybe that's because there were no bites at all  

[SixtiesFox]

Fortunately we have the best owners in the league. The success we have achieved as a club since their arrival is unprecedented and without them would never have happened. They haven't achieved this by falling asleep at the wheel or being blinded by sentiment. As we have seen in the past they are more than capable of making the tough decisions. I trust them to know when the time is right to move on from Rodgers before the current regression in our 'levels' of performance seriously undermine the incredible progress we have made. 

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, filbertway said:

 

I could deal with us looking shakey at the back if we were actually looking half decent going forwards. 

 

At the end of the day, he has Soyuncu, Ricardo and Castagne who have all proven to be good quality players at this level. It's not like he's throwing together a makeshift defence of 18 year old and out of position old heads.

 

There's no excuse for how little we seem to want to score goals or go and get bodies forwards. Palace seemed to look pretty comortable most of the game but made a couple of errors that cost them. If that was the other way around and we were taking the games to teams and then a few mistakes were costing us then fair play, you let the manager off. We don't and haven't looked like a team that wants to attack and put teams under pressure for a long long time now. Well until the 65-70 minute when Rodgers accepts hes got it wrong and sets us up to try and score.

 

I've gone on a bit of a mad one this morning getting it all off my chest so I think I've already given my thoughts on this in the Choudhury thread. 

 

The TLDR: I don't personally believe Rodgers wants us to be playing slow, insipid football. I don't think for one moment he's telling them not to take risks or not to commit bodies forward. I believe that's the result of a massive lack of confidence around the squad and nobody wanting to step up and take responsibility. 

 

THAT I do hold Rodgers accountable for. I don't think it's his "style of football" that's the problem, for me the problem is him not being able to lift the squad and instill them with the self belief needed to go and do it. 

 

Biggest difference between us and, say, Brentford (for example) at the moment is that Brentford are absolutely buzzing and flying high after a great season getting promoted where as we still look like we're moping around sulking and feeling sorry for ourselves having missed our on CL again. 

[Babylon]

30 minutes ago, kingfox said:

Why are some fans so quick to blame it all on injuries?

 

We’ve looked pretty shit with Ndidi in the team this season, we still have regular starting defenders in Soyuncu, Ricardo and Castagne all fit, he signed Vestergaard for a reason, some will say it was a panic buy; however after previous links, he was clearly a player on our radar for sometime.

 

Missing Evans is the problem, yet he hasn’t found a way yet for us to cope without him.

 

It now feels like we are relying on Evans to get fit, for a team like us we shouldn’t have to rely on one player to hopefully magically fix our problems.

 

When we are without Evans, there’s a mental naivety about this team that Brendan needs to fix, if he doesn’t then that will be his undoing.

I think most make allowances that it has an impact to lose your starting back 4. Ricardo might be back, but it's not the Ricardo who was easily our best player for about 18 months. 

[filbertway]

6 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've gone on a bit of a mad one this morning getting it all off my chest so I think I've already given my thoughts on this in the Choudhury thread. 

 

The TLDR: I don't personally believe Rodgers wants us to be playing slow, insipid football. I don't think for one moment he's telling them not to take risks or not to commit bodies forward. I believe that's the result of a massive lack of confidence around the squad and nobody wanting to step up and take responsibility. 

 

THAT I do hold Rodgers accountable for. I don't think it's his "style of football" that's the problem, for me the problem is him not being able to lift the squad and instill them with the self belief needed to go and do it. 

 

Biggest difference between us and, say, Brentford (for example) at the moment is that Brentford are absolutely buzzing and flying high after a great season getting promoted where as we still look like we're moping around sulking and feeling sorry for ourselves having missed our on CL again. 

If he doesn't want us to then he's unable to address the situation. I can't remember the last time where I went into gsmes expecting us to press from the front and try and kill teams in the first half like we did during his first 12-18 months. It all seems to come down to "control" trying to minimise risk and playing safe football, which teams seem to be finding easier and easier to handle.

 

Players just seem to play like robots and their first thought is to recycle possession rather than look to create or take chances. We usually look at our best for 5-10 mins after scoring, we seem to loosen the shackles and the players look full of beans trying to score another goal. Then they usually settle down back into the usual rhythm.

 

For me,  personally, I think a lot of the players enjoy the high octane, high press and quic tempo football. They're being asked to play a way that doesn't particularly sit well with them and we're seeing the worst case results of that this season. The signs were massively there in the 2nd half of last season and had it not been for Nacho and Tielemans contributing some unbelievable goals and assists, we'd have finished around 10th place.

 

Just seems like he's in a bit of a rut and it doesn't appear to be getting any better. It must be tough for himself as well, to have missed out on champions league football on the last day 2 seasons on the trot. He might be struggling himself for what to do or how to get a tune out of the team. If things don't show signs of improvement, all I want to see is a change in mentality from Rodgers and the team, then as I said yesterday, it might do both parties to go seperate ways and have a bit of a reset.

 

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

Do you not think there is an arrogance about how BR sets up?

 

We scored first this weekend and crumbled. We usually concede first, then panic halfway through the second half and only then have a shot on target, but ultimately we do not win.

 

We set out to outplay the oppositions defensive abilities (Barcelonaball), yet we are not effective at this, shown by our imbalance of possession and lack of shots on target. We are then countered.

 

His reluctance to change, will cost him his job, and our Champions League aspirations for this season.

 

I don't know what to think at the minute, everything feels like a huge mess.

[drumbeat]

2 hours ago, mozartfox said:

I totally agree on Benkovic. Can he really be any worse than Dan or Vestagaard?

Be careful what you wish for.

 

How anyone can make judgements on Benkovic is beyond me. We've hardly seen him.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

18 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

I've gone on a bit of a mad one this morning getting it all off my chest so I think I've already given my thoughts on this in the Choudhury thread. 

 

The TLDR: I don't personally believe Rodgers wants us to be playing slow, insipid football. I don't think for one moment he's telling them not to take risks or not to commit bodies forward. I believe that's the result of a massive lack of confidence around the squad and nobody wanting to step up and take responsibility. 

 

THAT I do hold Rodgers accountable for. I don't think it's his "style of football" that's the problem, for me the problem is him not being able to lift the squad and instill them with the self belief needed to go and do it. 

 

Biggest difference between us and, say, Brentford (for example) at the moment is that Brentford are absolutely buzzing and flying high after a great season getting promoted where as we still look like we're moping around sulking and feeling sorry for ourselves having missed our on CL again. 

I've said a couple of times in the past week about the three year thing that seems to have parallels at Rodgers last three clubs. I'm with you on this one, I highly doubt Rodgers has changed the message or how he wants the team to play, I think his principles are the same as they were on day one. Do you think there's therefore an element of Rodgers message resonating less with his teams after a couple of years or perhaps other teams become better at countering it and there's no real plan B in terms of giving teams something else to think about so his players naturally revert to this insipid, safe, almost pedestrian football at times? Wouldn't hang my hat on this being the case just want to know what people think as it's too coincidental what seems to happen in year 3 with his sides. Even in what everyone calls a farmers league up here it was the same, despite our budget being 50x that of most teams we really laboured to victories over some quite frankly terrible teams, sides that in his first 18 months we absolutely blew away.

[Muzzy_Larsson]

6 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't know what to think at the minute, everything feels like a huge mess.

Felt the same in his third season at Celtic, even the transfer window shambles aside there was something that just didn't feel right, couldn't put my finger on exactly what but just that some sort of rot had set in somewhere.

[Kilworthfox]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't know what to think at the minute, everything feels like a huge mess.

That's understandable as we are all feeling the frustrations at present as fans. Yet putting feelings aside and being as neutrally analytical as possible... Can you disagree with what I wrote?

 

Is there disharmony within the First team? As something is very wrong! 

 

Something has to change! Ideally BR and his Possession & Control philosophy, as it is not effective, especially considering the options he has at his disposal.

 

We cant really complain about squad depth, as we have the deepest squad we have ever had as a Premier League side. We have had injuries in the past which ultimately what cost us top 4 in the past 2 seasons. Now I see other teams have also strengthened, but surely, you'd have to be the biggest BR fan, to give him a pass at the moment?

 

We have beaten a very poor Norwich somewhat fortunately, you can say this about Wolves match also. I have little to be positive about, other than the attack is doing okay, yet this is because of punishing the opposition, not outplaying them!

 

Edited 4 October 2021 by Kilworthfox

[Babylon]

7 minutes ago, filbertway said:

If he doesn't want us to then he's unable to address the situation. I can't remember the last time where I went into gsmes expecting us to press from the front and try and kill teams in the first half like we did during his first 12-18 months. It all seems to come down to "control" trying to minimise risk and playing safe football, which teams seem to be finding easier and easier to handle.

 

Players just seem to play like robots and their first thought is to recycle possession rather than look to create or take chances. We usually look at our best for 5-10 mins after scoring, we seem to loosen the shackles and the players look full of beans trying to score another goal. Then they usually settle down back into the usual rhythm.

 

For me,  personally, I think a lot of the players enjoy the high octane, high press and quic tempo football. They're being asked to play a way that doesn't particularly sit well with them and we're seeing the worst case results of that this season. The signs were massively there in the 2nd half of last season and had it not been for Nacho and Tielemans contributing some unbelievable goals and assists, we'd have finished around 10th place.

 

Just seems like he's in a bit of a rut and it doesn't appear to be getting any better. It must be tough for himself as well, to have missed out on champions league football on the last day 2 seasons on the trot. He might be struggling himself for what to do or how to get a tune out of the team. If things don't show signs of improvement, all I want to see is a change in mentality from Rodgers and the team, then as I said yesterday, it might do both parties to go seperate ways and have a bit of a reset.

 

Unfortunately we have an undroppable 34/35 year old upfront, who only a couple of other strikers make less pressures per 90 than these days. It's difficult to press from the front when you can't all do it. 

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

1 hour ago, JonnyBoy said:

 

tbf, everyone is entitled to an opinion on here.. no need to be patronising, is there? give the lad a break 

 

if 25 points in 25 games doesn't concern you then you might want to look up the definition of insanity. It is also as if he is picking names out of a hat for who to sub on/sub off it's coming to a point where you have to laugh else you will cry 

It's not that bad though is it? We're 13th.

 

I share the frustrations but to be arguing for a sacking is ****ing madness.

 

And yes, he's entitled to his opinion, I'm also entitled to mine that his opinion is madness.

Edited 4 October 2021 by Chocolate Teapot

[Babylon]

8 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't know what to think at the minute, everything feels like a huge mess.

There are certainly a lot of questions, not lease transfers. I still can't really work out what we were doing signing Castagne over a proper left back. I'd presumed we were going to play him there eventually, as he'd had experience playing on the left, just like Ricardo and JJ. But it seems we're almost totally unwilling to now, which then begs the question if you trusted Justin enough to cover left back, why not let him cover for Ricardo on the right when he was out and buy a proper left back.

[moore_94]

2 hours ago, mozartfox said:

I totally agree on Benkovic. Can he really be any worse than Dan or Vestagaard?

Can’t see him being an improvement and I very much doubt he would be able to last a full 90 minutes so already 1 sub having to be used

[LcFc_Smiv]

6 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Unfortunately we have an undroppable 34/35 year old upfront, who only a couple of other strikers make less pressures per 90 than these days. It's difficult to press from the front when you can't all do it. 

The problem wasn't up front it was from behind. The amount of times forward players had gone for our midfield to still be sat so deep was a joke. If your going to press everyone has to go, centre backs should be on the half way line condensing the pitch, front foot ready to step in. Instead we had huge gaps in the middle of the park with midfield still stood on the back lines toes. I appreciate Vardys age is limiting but he's more than capable of doing it for 60 minutes and then getting subbed off, the issue is that we aren't very good at doing it as a team.

 

[Kilworthfox]

3 minutes ago, Muzzy_Larsson said:

I've said a couple of times in the past week about the three year thing that seems to have parallels at Rodgers last three clubs. I'm with you on this one, I highly doubt Rodgers has changed the message or how he wants the team to play, I think his principles are the same as they were on day one. Do you think there's therefore an element of Rodgers message resonating less with his teams after a couple of years or perhaps other teams become better at countering it and there's no real plan B in terms of giving teams something else to think about so his players naturally revert to this insipid, safe, almost pedestrian football at times? Wouldn't hang my hat on this being the case just want to know what people think as it's too coincidental what seems to happen in year 3 with his sides. Even in what everyone calls a farmers league up here it was the same, despite our budget being 50x that of most teams we really laboured to victories over some quite frankly terrible teams, sides that in his first 18 months we absolutely blew away.

It has always been my opinion, that since the great Barcelona side Guardiola had, with the central midfield trio of Xavi, Iniesta & Busquets, who passed & moved the opposition to bits, every other top football team has tried to be this, irrespective of the personnel that they have (which is baffling). We have been mis-sold the myth that it is good to watch, because its utter dross, unless you have the cream of the cream in terms of in possession central midfielders, and great off the ball moving attackers.

 

If you don't have the quality, then you end up with 60%+ possession few shots on goal, sideways & back passes, and a defeat to being countered, most weeks. If you do the opposite to this, then you end up winning the league! It really is the most frustrating thing to watch!

 

Have we really not learned that opposition defences sit deep against Jamie Vardy? They do this because they try to contain him.

 

Maybe Rodgers is a victim of the time that he was learning his trade, but surely a man of logic, would conclude that when you continue to do the same thing, and get the same results, you may wish to revaluate your methods, in order to get a better result?

[coolhandfox]

6 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Very harsh on Lookman, personally think he has looked great for us so far, really good signing

Yes maybe, but looking good and end product our two different things 

 

Can he produce the goods? Nothing in he's PL record suggests he can bring goals and assists to the party. 

 

[Paninistickers]

You only find out how good a manager is if they can pull teams out of a nosedive. If they can do that, you know you have a good un. 

 

Personally, I feel this season might actually do us a bit of good and reset a bit of humility. It wreaks of 16/17 and early 17/18. Every team hits the buffers. 

 

Look at the current (and not historic) strengths. And build around that. Castagne, Nacho, Lookman  Vards are all on form. A couple of results will see  Youri, Cags, Ricardo, back to near normal. Wilf, Evans and JJ will bolster the ranks over the coming weeks. 

 

 

[kingfox]

9 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I think most make allowances that it has an impact to lose your starting back 4. Ricardo might be back, but it's not the Ricardo who was easily our best player for about 18 months. 

It’s excuses Babs.

 

Only a month ago many on here were saying that Ricardo was looking back to his best, he was one of a few players that actually started this season quite well, a few dodgy performances later he’s now out the side.

 

In Ricardo, Soyuncu, Vestergaard and Castagne we have four players of International quality, three of which get picked regularly. Bertrand is an experienced Premier League defender, Thomas is one of the most promising left-backs in the country.

 

We have enough quality in there to be able to cope without Evans, yet it feels like they all need Evans to potentially guide them through the shit. 
 

As Rodgers said yesterday, let’s hope he finds a way to secure this defence, otherwise we’re fvcked.

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, LcFc_Smiv said:

The problem wasn't up front it was from behind. The amount of times forward players had gone for our midfield to still be sat so deep was a joke. If your going to press everyone has to go, centre backs should be on the half way line condensing the pitch, front foot ready to step in. Instead we had huge gaps in the middle of the park with midfield still stood on the back lines toes. I appreciate Vardys age is limiting but he's more than capable of doing it for 60 minutes and then getting subbed off, the issue is that we aren't very good at doing it as a team.

 

But he doesn't do it, and thus there is a gaping hole already there for people to work through. It has to start from the front and be backed up. Of course we also have a CB who shouldn't be playing on the half way line, so we're going to drop deeper than we should there also. Leaving the midfield in a bit of a no mans land if they are being asked to press. 

Edited 4 October 2021 by Babylon

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, kingfox said:

It’s excuses Babs.

 

Only a month ago many on here were saying that Ricardo was looking back to his best, he was one of a few players that actually started this season quite well, a few dodgy performances later he’s now out the side.

 

In Ricardo, Soyuncu, Vestergaard and Castagne we have four players of International quality, three of which get picked regularly. Bertrand is an experienced Premier League defender, Thomas is one of the most promising left-backs in the country.

 

We have enough quality in there to be able to cope without Evans, yet it feels like they all need Evans to potentially guide them through the shit. 
 

As Rodgers said yesterday, let’s hope he finds a way to secure this defence, otherwise we’re fvcked.

So Ricardo playing well for about two games means all the others he's looked suspect are meant to be forgotten? Rodgers clearly doesn't want to play either Castagne or Ricardo left back, so you can't name them both. Question the signing by all means. Vestergard and Bertrand are our 4th choice centre back and second / third choice left back, that's just a fact. And if Thomas is one of the most promising left backs in the country then I'm going to question your judgement full stop. Lets not forget, that they've been playing together for a couple of months. No matter how good you think players are, it takes time to become a unit. 

 

 

[filbertway]

38 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

It's not that bad though is it? We're 13th.

 

I share the frustrations but to be arguing for a sacking is ****ing madness.

 

And yes, he's entitled to his opinion, I'm also entitled to mine that his opinion is madness.

I fully expect to be in the minority as 99% of people seemed to accept the poor football due to the fact we were getting fortunate results. So I'm a lot further down the line than the majority now who are panicking because the results are finally matching the performances.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

39 minutes ago, Babylon said:

There are certainly a lot of questions, not lease transfers. I still can't really work out what we were doing signing Castagne over a proper left back. I'd presumed we were going to play him there eventually, as he'd had experience playing on the left, just like Ricardo and JJ. But it seems we're almost totally unwilling to now, which then begs the question if you trusted Justin enough to cover left back, why not let him cover for Ricardo on the right when he was out and buy a proper left back.

Its possible we tried to sign another left back but mid way through the summer the funds got pulled and they had to prioritise elsewhere.

 

He wanted 5 players last summer and didn't get them.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

4 minutes ago, Babylon said:

So Ricardo playing well for about two games means all the others he's looked suspect are meant to be forgotten? Rodgers clearly doesn't want to play either Castagne or Ricardo left back, so you can't name them both. Question the signing by all means. Vestergard and Bertrand are our 4th choice centre back and second / third choice left back, that's just a fact. And if Thomas is one of the most promising left backs in the country then I'm going to question your judgement full stop. Lets not forget, that they've been playing together for a couple of months. No matter how good you think players are, it takes time to become a unit. 

 

 

Hes the first choice under 21 left back and has had about two bad games for us as far as I can remember. Hes also in the top 40 young players in Europe (that golden boy award - hes on the shortlist). I can't see the hate you send his way, physically he needs to develop but he's a brilliant footballer.