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Brendan Rodgers

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7 hours ago, Beechey said:

He’s dead right when he says that the defence is the problem, because it clearly is. The issue is that we don’t seem to have a solution. We don’t have enough good CBs to change to a back 3, and we don’t have enough good defensive midfielders to cover and shield the dodgy defence. If I was him, I don’t know what I’d do.

Its easy to believe the defence is the problem when the team plays defensive football.

 

Playing defensive football puts the defense under pressure.  

 

If you have a good defence you play defensive.

If defence is weakness you play offensive, defending from the front.

 

If the defence is our problem we going about it the wrong way.

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5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

We've only ever thrown away a 2 goal lead 3 times under Rodgers, and yesterday was the 1st time in the league. Its worrying its happened twice this season already and shows how bereft of confidence and resilience this team is right now.

 

The defence is an absolute mess, I honestly don't know what the answer is without Evans. I can't see Vestergaard ever being good enough though and especially without Ndidi now for several weeks it's going to be a very vulnerable team and we've got a tough run of games.

 

It wouldn't be a surprise to see us continue to nosedive, but football changes quickly and these next 2 weeks he needs to be working his magic. He's lucky quite a big chunk of his squad won't be on international duty. I'm wondering if its time he tries Benkovic, I can't see how he'd be any worse than Vestergaard and we cannot just sit back and carry on with him and Soyuncu together we genuinely could be in a relegation battle if not, I don't see us winning regularly with him in the team.

 

The relentless injuries is a huge concern as well, it was inevitable we'd stop being able to cope with losing key players and it is the single one thing that will scupper Rodgers here if he doesn't take it seriously. It can't just be down to luck.

I think the answer is keeping the ball away from our 3rd, if we have the ball get it forward with urgency, we seem to do better in games we play like this, they are nerve wrecking games though as they tend to become end to end, like the community shield was which ironically we won against one of the two best teams in the country.

 

Passing it sideways between defenders puts them immediately under pressure when we lose it. 

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Guest Col city fan
1 hour ago, Kilworthfox said:

Why fuc king buy them then?

:D

Babs has got himself in the shit with this one

 

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1 hour ago, Corky said:

The point is that this Postecoglou bloke clearly isn't an upgrade on Rodgers. 

 

I have a feeling Rodgers won't be here by the start of next season one way or another but also that the next man has a lot to do to beat Rodgers' achievements here.

In fairness, that Celtic job was a poisoned chalice when the incumbent manager got it compared with when Rodgers took over! I don't think they had a queue of decent managers rushing for an interview. The recruitment under Rodgers and Congleton wasn't exactly astounding was it!

 

As for us, that all depends on the state of our squad by then. Missing out on top 4 the last 2 seasons the way we did has undoubtedly cost us. Before we even kicked off this season, regardless of what Rodgers did in fairness, I think we'd struggle greatly to get 4th spot this time as the goalposts have changed. However I thought 5/6th could be entirely  possible. 

 

However, if we have a bad season now, I forsee several of our better players leaving with possibly dire consequences. I don't for example see Tielemans, Ndidi, Fofana and Maddison staying. If it does all go wrong it will feed right into the Rodgers myth as he hops onto another low risk good thing.

 

I think the real question should be,  if inheriting the rosey situation and squad Rodgers did, together with ongoing strengthening, could any other manager have equalled or surpassed his two 5th place finishes? I would suggest that with the squads we had and the circumstances of those two seasons that it would have been entirely possible. I think much of it was to do with the talent of the players.

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Guest Chocolate Teapot
3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

If we continue to get injuries at the same rate as we have in the last 18 months then we'll struggle. When low on confidence and form you need quality to shine through and when ours is a ticking time bomb on about half our starting XI when it comes to their fitness it's pretty bleak.

 

I've got to question some of the recent signings as well, it feels like we're lost a little in prioritising what sorts of players we needed. Castagne not playing at LB might be more because he's not yet had a good game for us on the left but he was definitely signed to play there once Ricardo was back fit. Bertrand so far has been very whiffy, hopefully if the team picks up he'll be the sort that will quietly go about his business and play his way in to his surroundings here but right now I'd have Thomas in over him for sure. 

Can we stop doing if, buts and maybes? I prefer to do absolutes, like if you're auntie had balls she'd be your uncle but she's not so she doesn't.

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We can talk about this til we are blue in the face so I'm not even going to bother. The current situation isn't a great one though and there is a lot to sort out the defense is a massive problem esp in this league with so many quality players and if we can't find the balance we will be in trouble tough job but that's what the blokes paid so well for. 

 

I think the club will give him till Christmas if there is no up turn you can see them looking elsewhere 

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12 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

Can we stop doing if, buts and maybes? I prefer to do absolutes, like if you're auntie had balls she'd be your uncle but she's not so she doesn't.

Old thinking I'm afraid. I don't pretend to fully understand it but I believe now that even if your Auntie hasn't got balls, she can still be your Uncle if she wants to be. She can also be a banana or an armchair also should she choose to be. 😁

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Bertrand coming in as a Fuchs replacement was fine problem is he is somehow first choice despite Thomas, Ricardo and Castagne all being fit.

 

Vestergaard never felt right, felt like a panic buy that was a stopgap to getting Tarkowski on a free next summer and he doesn't suit us and is making an already shaky Soyuncu even worse

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2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Bertrand makes sense as there is little point buying a young player with Justin and Thomas coming through.

 

Vestergaard I can only presume as easy to do quickly. Set up right I’m sure he’d be steady enough, just not in a high line.

 

Can see us sitting deeper and countering more…. Or going to a bloody 5 again. 

It makes sense to buy Bertrand as a replacement for Fuchs, for his experience and his use as a back-up, but not as our first choice at LB.

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2 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

Why fuc king buy them then?

Budget, lack of options, needing a quick deal, players here meaning no need to buy young player etc. 
 

Quality of both was always debatable, but again they are 4th choice cb and 2nd or 3rd choice left back (potentially lower if we switch Castagne). How good are those options at most clubs. 

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25 minutes ago, deep blue said:

It makes sense to buy Bertrand as a replacement for Fuchs, for his experience and his use as a back-up, but not as our first choice at LB.

He’s not our first choice left back. He’s playing as first choice is out injured, we all knew that before he signed. 
 

Thomas is still raw and can be pretty poor as well. 

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8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He’s not our first choice left back. He’s playing as first choice is out injured, we all knew that before he signed. 
 

Thomas is still raw and can be pretty poor as well. 

Castagne was bought to replace Chilwell, play him there, Ricardo is still better than Bertrand on the other flank even on a bad day

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3 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

Why on earth did we sign them? I've tried to play devil's advocate on them and I can't, even as squad signings they are hideous so far.

Bertrand has been horrid, he has an amazing ability to play people inside. Can’t understand for the life of my why he is playing. 

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50 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Budget, lack of options, needing a quick deal, players here meaning no need to buy young player etc. 
 

Quality of both was always debatable, but again they are 4th choice cb and 2nd or 3rd choice left back (potentially lower if we switch Castagne). How good are those options at most clubs. 

I think they are all valid possibilities. However our financial position compared with 99% of the football market, we are still a major force with a great budget.

 

I feel that both Bertrand and Vestergaard, should both be performing much better, I can kind of give Bertrand a minor pass "if" he is continuing to struggle with covid aftermath, yet, we have Thomas if this is the case... so this decision is on the manager.

 

I have no idea why Castagne and Ricardo are not starting, this once again is an odd decision.

 

I know we have injuries, but so do all clubs. Now we have the strongest depth we have ever had, so for me these injuries, although very unfortunate (Fofana especially) but we knew about Evans and Justin... LCFC have Hudl, and we scout extensively with this, I find it illogical and unacceptable for a rich club like LCFC, that we were unable to find better cover than the 2 players mentioned above.

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44 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Castagne was bought to replace Chilwell, play him there, Ricardo is still better than Bertrand on the other flank even on a bad day

The reluctance to play Castagne there now and the fact in the past window we were chasing other left backs and also signed one in Bertrand suggests to me he isn't seen as a starting option at left back for us

 

Has played just 10 games for us a left sided player, played more than twice that on the right (27), and played as many games at centre back as he has at actual left back (4)

 

Barely even plays on the left for Belgium, and he much prefers to play on the right himself as well

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32 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Rodgers has made some really bizarre decisions in 2021, I know managers don't get it all right and I said only a week or two ago that most of the frustrations we have with Brendan we'd have with many other managers of his ilk. 

 

That said I'm still baffled by the following:

 

1) ignoring Praet when Maddison and Perez were a) ill disciplined to the detriment of our CL and FA Cup push and b) horribly out of form. He didn't get a chance after the West Ham debacle even though our ACM's were anonymous.

 

2) Trying Perez as a false 9 when Vardy was injured in Jan and Feb and ignoring Iheanacho until he picked him vs Fulham and he was electric, thst was the start of his reintroduction in to the team but I'm still mystified the thought process prior to that.

 

3) Happier to play Castagne or Ricardo as a left wing back last season when neither was fit or on form but now we have reverted back to a back 4 he's refusing to play them both and instead we're lumbered with Bertrand who's been poor so far. It feels very much like Ricardo's last season but rather he go on a high for a good fee, it'll be a knock down fee.

 

4) As per point 1) up until yesterday was determined not to play 2 up front despite the ongoing creative issues from Maddison, Perez and Barnes in and around the attacker. We've not had a quality supply line since February and yet Iheanacho and Vardy are still somehow scoring an impressive array of goals, without Iheanacho on the pitch we've scored about 3 goals in god knows how many games. HE IS INDISPENSIBLE.

 

5) Registering Benkovic instead of Mendy but seemingly having very little desire to give Benkovic any game time. I'm not quite sure what it will take for him to play, I mean our defence can't get much worse and therefore it seems an odd move given the issues we now face at DCM. Mendy has his limitations but he's far more disciplined than Choudhury and it would surely be wiser to have them both given it would take all 4 CB's to be injured for Benkovic to get anywhere near the team and even then I'm not sure he'd play.

 

6) Daka, so far he's made some bad decisions on his introduction in to this team. Him not playing Iheanacho from the start meant there was very little chance he'd bring on 2 strikers from 3 allowed subs and therefore he's had no opportunity to come in to the side with our best players around him. Not starting him at Millwall was strange too. Fair enough he played vs Legia but with an alien system and personnel and very little support. You can see the desperation when he's now scrabbling for minutes vs the fearless confidence he seemed to ooze when he rocked up here as one of the hottest properties in Europe. Vardy is undroppable at the minute but he could be replaced with 15-20 to go at the very least with Daka's electric pace to hurt tiring teams.

 

7) Soumare, made some very perturbing comments about him being an attack minded player. He's got 1 goal and 2 assists in his entire career, he makes Nampalys Mendy look like Gheorge Hagi on paper. I hope this vision comes to fruition and this is an example of Rodgers ability to develop players but if not it will go down as a poor signing given the priorities we had elsewhere and not a huge transfer budget to work from. Soumare to me looks like a box to box player perfect for a high energy counter attacking game, like Doucoure at Everton, not Yaya Toure like Rodgers thinks he is.

The only thing I will say is regarding 5) about registering Benkovic over Mendy

 

I am pretty sure clubs have to submit their registered squads the day after the window closes (or only a few days after), at the time of us submitting our squad Mendy would still have been looking to leave the club and at the time was probably talking to clubs to try and find a move, although his moved to Galatasaray eventually collapsed at the time of registering our squad it was probably the better option to register a player you know would still be at the club and could be used in an emergency (Benkovic) rather than someone who looked to be on their way out and would just be a waste of a registered squad place (Mendy)

Edited by moore_94
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37 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Rodgers has made some really bizarre decisions in 2021, I know managers don't get it all right and I said only a week or two ago that most of the frustrations we have with Brendan we'd have with many other managers of his ilk. 

 

That said I'm still baffled by the following:

 

1) ignoring Praet when Maddison and Perez were a) ill disciplined to the detriment of our CL and FA Cup push and b) horribly out of form. He didn't get a chance after the West Ham debacle even though our ACM's were anonymous.

 

2) Trying Perez as a false 9 when Vardy was injured in Jan and Feb and ignoring Iheanacho until he picked him vs Fulham and he was electric, thst was the start of his reintroduction in to the team but I'm still mystified the thought process prior to that.

 

3) Happier to play Castagne or Ricardo as a left wing back last season when neither was fit or on form but now we have reverted back to a back 4 he's refusing to play them both and instead we're lumbered with Bertrand who's been poor so far. It feels very much like Ricardo's last season but rather he go on a high for a good fee, it'll be a knock down fee.

 

4) As per point 1) up until yesterday was determined not to play 2 up front despite the ongoing creative issues from Maddison, Perez and Barnes in and around the attacker. We've not had a quality supply line since February and yet Iheanacho and Vardy are still somehow scoring an impressive array of goals, without Iheanacho on the pitch we've scored about 3 goals in god knows how many games. HE IS INDISPENSIBLE.

 

5) Registering Benkovic instead of Mendy but seemingly having very little desire to give Benkovic any game time. I'm not quite sure what it will take for him to play, I mean our defence can't get much worse and therefore it seems an odd move given the issues we now face at DCM. Mendy has his limitations but he's far more disciplined than Choudhury and it would surely be wiser to have them both given it would take all 4 CB's to be injured for Benkovic to get anywhere near the team and even then I'm not sure he'd play.

 

6) Daka, so far he's made some bad decisions on his introduction in to this team. Him not playing Iheanacho from the start meant there was very little chance he'd bring on 2 strikers from 3 allowed subs and therefore he's had no opportunity to come in to the side with our best players around him. Not starting him at Millwall was strange too. Fair enough he played vs Legia but with an alien system and personnel and very little support. You can see the desperation when he's now scrabbling for minutes vs the fearless confidence he seemed to ooze when he rocked up here as one of the hottest properties in Europe. Vardy is undroppable at the minute but he could be replaced with 15-20 to go at the very least with Daka's electric pace to hurt tiring teams.

 

7) Soumare, made some very perturbing comments about him being an attack minded player. He's got 1 goal and 2 assists in his entire career, he makes Nampalys Mendy look like Gheorge Hagi on paper. I hope this vision comes to fruition and this is an example of Rodgers ability to develop players but if not it will go down as a poor signing given the priorities we had elsewhere and not a huge transfer budget to work from. Soumare to me looks like a box to box player perfect for a high energy counter attacking game, like Doucoure at Everton, not Yaya Toure like Rodgers thinks he is.

Pretty much spot on!!

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1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

Rodgers has made some really bizarre decisions in 2021, I know managers don't get it all right and I said only a week or two ago that most of the frustrations we have with Brendan we'd have with many other managers of his ilk. 

 

That said I'm still baffled by the following:

 

1) ignoring Praet when Maddison and Perez were a) ill disciplined to the detriment of our CL and FA Cup push and b) horribly out of form. He didn't get a chance after the West Ham debacle even though our ACM's were anonymous.

 

2) Trying Perez as a false 9 when Vardy was injured in Jan and Feb and ignoring Iheanacho until he picked him vs Fulham and he was electric, thst was the start of his reintroduction in to the team but I'm still mystified the thought process prior to that.

 

3) Happier to play Castagne or Ricardo as a left wing back last season when neither was fit or on form but now we have reverted back to a back 4 he's refusing to play them both and instead we're lumbered with Bertrand who's been poor so far. It feels very much like Ricardo's last season but rather he go on a high for a good fee, it'll be a knock down fee.

 

4) As per point 1) up until yesterday was determined not to play 2 up front despite the ongoing creative issues from Maddison, Perez and Barnes in and around the attacker. We've not had a quality supply line since February and yet Iheanacho and Vardy are still somehow scoring an impressive array of goals, without Iheanacho on the pitch we've scored about 3 goals in god knows how many games. HE IS INDISPENSIBLE.

 

5) Registering Benkovic instead of Mendy but seemingly having very little desire to give Benkovic any game time. I'm not quite sure what it will take for him to play, I mean our defence can't get much worse and therefore it seems an odd move given the issues we now face at DCM. Mendy has his limitations but he's far more disciplined than Choudhury and it would surely be wiser to have them both given it would take all 4 CB's to be injured for Benkovic to get anywhere near the team and even then I'm not sure he'd play.

 

6) Daka, so far he's made some bad decisions on his introduction in to this team. Him not playing Iheanacho from the start meant there was very little chance he'd bring on 2 strikers from 3 allowed subs and therefore he's had no opportunity to come in to the side with our best players around him. Not starting him at Millwall was strange too. Fair enough he played vs Legia but with an alien system and personnel and very little support. You can see the desperation when he's now scrabbling for minutes vs the fearless confidence he seemed to ooze when he rocked up here as one of the hottest properties in Europe. Vardy is undroppable at the minute but he could be replaced with 15-20 to go at the very least with Daka's electric pace to hurt tiring teams.

 

7) Soumare, made some very perturbing comments about him being an attack minded player. He's got 1 goal and 2 assists in his entire career, he makes Nampalys Mendy look like Gheorge Hagi on paper. I hope this vision comes to fruition and this is an example of Rodgers ability to develop players but if not it will go down as a poor signing given the priorities we had elsewhere and not a huge transfer budget to work from. Soumare to me looks like a box to box player perfect for a high energy counter attacking game, like Doucoure at Everton, not Yaya Toure like Rodgers thinks he is.

I agree entirely with all that and I think many of us have been thinking similar, there's even more to add to the list as well perhaps. At first you try and justify it to yourself thinking that he's the manager, he sees them every day, he must know what he's doing. However, as time goes on and there's bizarre decision after bizarre decision, you have to question it and its easy to start thinking that this bloke at times is either overthinking, trying to look smart or just plain stubborn at times. He's starting to look a bit clueless at times. Sometimes when you try and find logic in what he does it just isn't there and he keeps making the same mistakes. Luckily last season, some of our players individual performances came to his rescue and it didn't look too bad statistically in the end but in reality I don't think he had much input into that. 

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I think Ric makes some great points, when Rodgers first arrived I have to say I thought his man-management was first class however I feel there are massive cracks appearing.
 

1) as others have said his treatment of Kels and his reluctance to select him despite his form suggesting he should be a guaranteed starter. 

 

2) his treatment of Praet, freezing him out at a time when our form was poor and we had a quality player in the background that wasn’t being given any game time 

 

3) His utilisation of Hamza. granted he isn’t a first choice but the lack of game time and opportunity for him to play himself into any kind of form is non existent, regardless of how well or badly he plays he gets hooked on the hour He isn’t the most talented in the squad but his intensity, high energy and ability to win the ball higher up the pitch is a great attribute to have and offers something different to our squad dynamic. Also it is very often feint praise after games or will make reference to a mistake of mistakes he has made. Confidence must be wrong bottom for the lad. 
 

my observation of Rodgers is he clearly has his favourites or that he is more lenient and not prepared to make big decisions that involve the stronger personalities, therefore invariably he takes the easy option. 
 

 

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9 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

I think they are all valid possibilities. However our financial position compared with 99% of the football market, we are still a major force with a great budget.

 

I feel that both Bertrand and Vestergaard, should both be performing much better, I can kind of give Bertrand a minor pass "if" he is continuing to struggle with covid aftermath, yet, we have Thomas if this is the case... so this decision is on the manager.

 

I have no idea why Castagne and Ricardo are not starting, this once again is an odd decision.

 

I know we have injuries, but so do all clubs. Now we have the strongest depth we have ever had, so for me these injuries, although very unfortunate (Fofana especially) but we knew about Evans and Justin... LCFC have Hudl, and we scout extensively with this, I find it illogical and unacceptable for a rich club like LCFC, that we were unable to find better cover than the 2 players mentioned above.

Caravan has only been back a very Short while...Ricardo had a knock at the start...

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It just seems to me he's sort of following similar pattern to his time at Liverpool, I'm just waiting for a 6-1 drubbing from a mid table team.  Most fans are sensible and don't want him sacked, but watching us for the last 20 games, we know something is not quite right, but does he get the time to change it or do the owners see which way the wind is blowing?

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