Brendan Rodgers

[Dahnsouff]

1 minute ago, Daggers said:

Two matches. 
 

Two. 

So you are saying its not a one-off?

[CosbehFox]

35 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Just on the turning the corner issue.

 

Over the course of the the last 15 games our form is top 6.

 

Sort of indicates we are moving in the right direction.

 

 

Incredibly crude way of doing it. It excludes our form at the start of the season and games against the big six but includes those big six games for the rest of the league. Stretching it out to 19 is fairer. 
 

Its not a fair comparison 

Edited 14 February 2023 by CosbehFox

[StanSP]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Incredibly crude way of doing it. It excludes our form at the start of the season and games against the big six but includes those big six games for the rest of the league. Stretching it out to 19 is fairer. 
 

Its not a fair comparison 

15 games is a decent barometer of form, I would say. 

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Incredibly crude way of doing it. It excludes our form at the start of the season and games against the big six but includes those big six games for the rest of the league. Stretching it out to 19 is fairer

Presumably we are looking for direction of travel, so relating to older stats are of diminishing value, but we certainly do not have a valuable sample size at this point,but there is little value in older data if it is not reinforced by more contemporary data.

Are the last two games a huge performance improvement? Yes. Is that enough to say we will now be good all season? No, of course not.

[CosbehFox]

Just now, StanSP said:

15 games is a decent barometer of form, I would say. 

It’s not when it’s selective of opposition. When not take it down to 10 games, when we drop to 12th in the league? Or 6 games and it’s 12th. It’s an improvement but not one painted to that extent 

[CosbehFox]

3 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Presumably we are looking for direction of travel, so relating to older stats are of diminishing value, but we certainly do not have a valuable sample size at this point,but there is little value in older data if it is not reinforced by more contemporary data.

Are the last two games a huge performance improvement? Yes. Is that enough to say we will now be good all season? No, of course not.

The comment made a reference to top six form. Hence my rejection of it

[Dahnsouff]

6 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

The comment made a reference to top six form. Hence my rejection of it

Fair enough, but thats how form tables work isn't it   You don`t tend to pick when and against whom the form is judged, so yes in one sense its a blunt measure, but it a comparative measure nonetheless

[CosbehFox]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Fair enough, but thats how form tables work isn't it   You don`t tend to pick when and against whom the form is judged, so yes in one sense its a blunt measure, but it a comparative measure nonetheless

I just find the 15 game point crude to use given we are quite aware of what happens before that point.

 

If we are stretching out the data point to include our winning run and then comparing to others making the point we are in top six form. Then you have to mention we had three fixtures against the big six in that period of 15 games. 

 

 

[An Sionnach]

I sometimes think that after nearly 2000 pages , everything that can be said about Rodgers has been said and we just let history take its course. It will whether we like it or not. Our future is largely in the hands of our players. They have plenty of ability , couple that with determination and attitude , in particular attitude , and we will be fine.

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

I just find the 15 game point crude to use given we are quite aware of what happens before that point.

 

If we are stretching out the data point to include our winning run and then comparing to others making the point we are in top six form. Then you have to mention we had three fixtures against the big six in that period of 15 games. 

 

 

Oh indeed, suppose you could always use early (full) data, and the table clearly shows us in 13th, this last 15 game table shows us 6th, so we would appear to be heading in a better direction post those initial 7 games! Any port in a storm  

[Finnegan]

Form tables are and always have been pointless. Especially those that hyper fixate on the last five games as if they're a sufficient sample. 

 

If, by the accident of scheduling, you happen to have a run of, say, Southampton, Everton, Bournemouth and Leeds should you be patting yourself on the back for "title winning form" if you beat them all? 

 

Even when you stop and look at positions in the table there's context you can miss. You see Arsenal (top) dropped points at Everton (bottom) and you might think they're having a significant wobble or that Everton have turned a corner but you look at the context of that game in isolation and things change. That it was at home, that there was a newfound sense of energy and a lift in morale at Everton similar to our first game under, say, Shakespeare well then you expect a different outcome. 

 

We've done brilliantly in our last two games. But Villa gave us three free goals out of nothing and Tottenham, in bigger crisis than us, didn't turn up at all. There's genuine cause for opitism, the players visibly got a shot of confidence from the Villa game and the new signings have clearly given the squad a lift. But getting distracted by what that does to our "form table" is daft. 

 

We've got three unbelievably tough games coming up. If we take zero points and plummet down the form table but actually put in some credible performances and make those games competitive, showing good signs for the future, then I assume some of you would be pointing that out as opposed to obsessing over our then "relegation form."

 

I absolutely love stats. They're my thing. I've said a bunch of times they're literally what I do for a living. But sometimes with football you need to just open your eyes, watch what's happening in front of you and be able to judge a match on its actual footballing merits. And if you ARE going to judge data, learn to use the right data in sufficient quantities. 

[Matt]

2 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

That's besides the point, you asked "who is there?" and then I said immediately two good managers who were brought into the league by similar clubs. 

 

Was Rodgers "available" when we sacked Puel btw? 

I made this point, several times (I know, I know, not like me at all) a while back, without any answer.

 

I genuinely can’t remember if getting Rodgers in was on the cards, feasible or seen as possible/likely at the time  

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 minute ago, Matt said:

I made this point, several times (I know, I know, not like me at all) a while back, without any answer.

 

I genuinely can’t remember if getting Rodgers in was on the cards, feasible or seen as possible/likely at the time  

He was about to complete a treble and then left before the chance to win 10 league titles in a row. The "who else is there" brigade wouldn't have given us a sniff of getting him at the time, and ironically they all love him now  

[Matt_Lcfc]

I hate this argument of 'if you look at the last 15 games, we are 7th.' You are being really selective over games, you cannot just disregard the first seven games. It's like saying 'if the season started last week, we would be top!!' - it just does not work like that, those first few matches were as bad as I can remember (since being promoted). I am happy to accept that Rodgers has got it right in the last two matches, but for me, the jury is still out.

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

33 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

We've done brilliantly in our last two games. But Villa gave us three free goals out of nothing and Tottenham, in bigger crisis than us, didn't turn up at all.

You're at it again....

 

Spurs had won the last three, not conceding a goal and beating the league champions ffs. How's that a crisis?

[Guest Chocolate Teapot]

5 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

He was about to complete a treble and then left before the chance to win 10 league titles in a row. The "who else is there" brigade wouldn't have given us a sniff of getting him at the time, and ironically they all love him now  

He'd be rumoured about coming to us for over a year. It wasn't quite out of nowhere given it was pretty clear they'd lined him up for that summer so it was pretty likely even before we sacked puel.

[coolhandfox]

1 hour ago, CosbehFox said:

Incredibly crude way of doing it. It excludes our form at the start of the season and games against the big six but includes those big six games for the rest of the league. Stretching it out to 19 is fairer. 
 

Its not a fair comparison 

Who said it was a comparison?

 

It's just a indicator that we have improved since our terrible start.

 

If your looking for comparisons.

 

In the first 6 games we lost to Spurs and Brighton heavily and got zero no points, goals against F4, A11.

 

We have just played them both again, won 1 and draw 1, 4 points, F6, A3.

 

It will be interesting to see how we do against Arsenal and Man U in the next few weeks in the return fixtures.

Edited 14 February 2023 by coolhandfox

[StanSP]

If anything the last 15 games is a good measure, because it also includes the bad run of form after the World Cup. 

 

Not like the comparison is Brighton draw onwards. It incorporates a good amount of games over a lengthy period of time. 

 

22 games played. 15-game form is fine. 

 

If anything those picking at the amount of games seem more fussy about it than anyone else

 

[AjcW]

Don't think anyone is getting carried away, we're having a 'new player bounce' similar to that old chestnut.. new manger bounce.

 

I'd sum things up like this

 

- He's been a total bellend and incredibly disrespectful publically about the club, players and fans this season (other managers haven't got away with this sort of behaviour), which has soured his relationship with the majority on here, me included. There's no coming back from that for me no matter what he does

- He was right (although anyone could see it) that we needed players, but the way he handled it was abysmal

- I'm pleased he appears to have swallowed his pride and started to play Nacho/drop out of form 'favourites'

- We'll all be really happy if we can continue to recover and have a strong top 10 finish, because we're fans of the club not fans of individuals

- I'd still like to see him go at the end of the season no matter what happens, and wouldn't be sad if someone came in and nabbed him if his stock rises again, just think it's a good time for a fresh approach for us!

- Wouldn't be at all shocked if he leaves us having won two FA Cups, which is some achievement in 5 years  

[Samilktray]

10 minutes ago, Chocolate Teapot said:

He'd be rumoured about coming to us for over a year. It wasn't quite out of nowhere given it was pretty clear they'd lined him up for that summer so it was pretty likely even before we sacked puel.

Don’t remember seeing a single link a year before we appointed him?

[RoboFox]

I'm taking my "SORRY I CALLED YOU A GOBLIN BRENDAN" banner just in case we pump United. 

 

Also taking the "GET OUT OF MY CLUB GOBLIN RODGERS" one in case we get dicked. 

 

Not fickle, I just like to be prepared. 

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Who said it was a comparison?

 

It's just a indicator that we have improved since our terrible start.

 

If your looking for comparisons.

 

In the first 6 games we lost to Spurs and Brighton heavily and got zero no points, goals against F4, A11.

 

We have just played them both again, won 1 and draw 1, 4 points, F6, A3.

 

It will be interesting to see how we do against Arsenal and Man U in the next few weeks in the return fixtures.

Over the course of the the last 15 games our form is top 6.
 

 

[CosbehFox]

13 minutes ago, StanSP said:

If anything the last 15 games is a good measure, because it also includes the bad run of form after the World Cup. 

 

Not like the comparison is Brighton draw onwards. It incorporates a good amount of games over a lengthy period of time. 

 

22 games played. 15-game form is fine. 

 

If anything those picking at the amount of games seem more fussy about it than anyone else

 

Not my behalf. I used the same argument when people were cherry picking form

last season to advocate Rodgers being sacked  - which at the time of last season I thought Rodgers was doing well under the circumstances. 
 

If we want to talk form really and properly rather than comparison to other teams, then the only games that matter are from 26th December 

Edited 14 February 2023 by CosbehFox

[StanSP]

3 minutes ago, CosbehFox said:

Not my behalf. I used the same argument when people were cherry picking form

last season to advocate Rodgers being sacked  - which at the time of last season I thought Rodgers was doing well under the circumstances. 
 

If we want to talk form really and properly rather than comparison to other teams, then the only games that matter are from 26th December 

So that's a smaller sample size (gw 16-24), and also doesn't take into account the good form just before WC. Given the break, I guess it's fair. 

 

That period of 8 games we're 14th in form table. 10 points gained. Same as Chelsea. 

 

3 points off a host of teams on 13 points - Man City, Fulham, Spurs, Wolves, Liverpool, Villa. 

 

[Babylon]

2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Just on the turning the corner issue.

 

Over the course of the the last 15 games our form is top 6.

 

Sort of indicates we are moving in the right direction.

 

 

 

We've always had wild swings in form under him, it's nothing new.

 

The bigger issue is that so often most of them are IMO self inflicted. Then you have his attitude for the last year, purely based around absolving himself of any blame, where as a decent coach would attempt to create a siege mentality against negative press, rather than playing along with it. Then you have the Rennie / injury fiasco, which has gone on too long to be a coincidence. Congerton being installed against better judgement. 

 

I hope the club have realised they gave him too much power and sway and have started taking it back. Minimise the damage his fitness team have done and get a decent scouting setup back in place. 

 

If we play positive football, he can stay. But I just fear negative Nelly Rodgers is just lurking around the corner to take the wind from our sails once again.