Brendan Rodgers

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

There is a top 4 side within this Leicester team that he is unable to find. The continual defensive passes, and risk averse football is laborious. Next!

Who?

[Kilworthfox]

21 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Who?

It is not my place to say... and it wont change who the next manager will be. However I do feel that this way of thinking is just fear of the unknown. I don't want to accept mediocrity, and losing our better players, just because we have become sentimental about our manager, and we are willing to overlook his continued failures, because of 2 previous historically good finishes for this football club. Failure is failure, and currently and subjectively previously he has failed, as his team is better than their previous finishing positions, & current position.

Edited 1 November 2021 by Kilworthfox

[volpeazzurro]

26 minutes ago, Notting your mums forest said:

Fortunately Spurs are a shambles of a club and surely a move to Spurs is a career step downwards. I still think Brendan will be waiting for the Man City gig, especially as Guardiola has already intimated his finish date at Man City.

An elite club like Manchester City with all the money they have behind them would, just in my opinion, quite rightly hope for a much better calibre of candidate for manager than Brendan Rodgers. 

 

Sometimes ex footballers talk a load of tosh on such things but I do tend to agree with Steve Nicol's comments on this subject when asked about Rodgers suitability for the Manchester United job recently should it arise. He commented:

 

“The Mourinho’s and even Van Gaal’s, somebody you’d listen to, you don’t listen to Ole and nobody listens to Brendan Rodgers either.

“Brendan Rodgers doesn’t have the character to be a leader at Manchester United.”

 

I personally think that with top international players, who've probably played under top elite coaches that is quite possibly true. They would see straight through any extended blarney and bullshit. I remember Glen Johnson in interview told of how some of the senior players at Liverpool used to laugh at Rodgers behind his back. Who knows, possibly even some of our players currently have lost a little bit of faith in him, his philosophy and his tactics? 

 

[coolhandfox]

11 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

It is not my place to say... and it wont change who the next manager will be. However I do feel that this way of thinking is just fear of the unknown. I don't want to accept mediocrity, and losing our better players, just because we have become sentimental about our manager, and we are willing to overlook his continued failures, because of 2 previous historically good finishes for this football club.

 

It's straightforward to say next when you don't have to pick a replacement. 

 

It depends on the objectives the owner/club have set him.

 

What would you deem as being successful? 

11 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

 

Failure is failure, and currently and subjectively previously he has failed, as his team is better than their previous finishing positions, & current position.

What has he failed at?

 

2018/19 he arrived with us 12th, and we finished 9th, so he improved our position. 

 

2019/20 he improved on the previous season with 5th place, our second highest PL finish. Whilst getting us to our first Semi-Final in 19 years. 

 

2020/21, he finishes 5th again, improving our previous season point total for 62pts to 66pts. Delivers the club's first FA Cup win in our history. 
Delivers back to back European football for the first time in our history.

 

2021/22 Wins the Community Shield for only the second time in our history.

 

Granted, we have had an average start, and he does have faults and makes mistakes.

 

But a failure, really? 

[BKLFox]

4 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

An elite club like Manchester City with all the money they have behind them would, just in my opinion, quite rightly hope for a much better calibre of candidate for manager than Brendan Rodgers. 

 

Sometimes ex footballers talk a load of tosh on such things but I do tend to agree with Steve Nicol's comments on this subject when asked about Rodgers suitability for the Manchester United job recently should it arise. He commented:

 

“The Mourinho’s and even Van Gaal’s, somebody you’d listen to, you don’t listen to Ole and nobody listens to Brendan Rodgers either.

“Brendan Rodgers doesn’t have the character to be a leader at Manchester United.”

 

I personally think that with top international players, who've probably played under top elite coaches that is quite possibly true. They would see straight through any extended blarney and bullshit. I remember Glen Johnson in interview told of how some of the senior players at Liverpool used to laugh at Rodgers behind his back. Who knows, possibly even some of our players currently have lost a little bit of faith in him, his philosophy and his tactics? 

 

Lost me after Steve Nicol

[BKLFox]

28 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

It is not my place to say... and it wont change who the next manager will be. However I do feel that this way of thinking is just fear of the unknown. I don't want to accept mediocrity, and losing our better players, just because we have become sentimental about our manager, and we are willing to overlook his continued failures, because of 2 previous historically good finishes for this football club. Failure is failure, and currently and subjectively previously he has failed, as his team is better than their previous finishing positions, & current position.

Your not on the Watford board by chance are you?

[coolhandfox]

7 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I personally think that with top international players, who've probably played under top elite coaches that is quite possibly true. They would see straight through any extended blarney and bullshit. I remember Glen Johnson in interview told of how some of the senior players at Liverpool used to laugh at Rodgers behind his back. Who knows, possibly even some of our players currently have lost a little bit of faith in him, his philosophy and his tactics? 

 

Who doesn't laugh behind their boss back at times and think they could do a better job.

 

I think most people in the world have done it at some point.

[Kilworthfox]

3 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Your not on the Watford board by chance are you?

Sadly not 

[CosbehFox]

10 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

An elite club like Manchester City with all the money they have behind them would, just in my opinion, quite rightly hope for a much better calibre of candidate for manager than Brendan Rodgers. 

 

Sometimes ex footballers talk a load of tosh on such things but I do tend to agree with Steve Nicol's comments on this subject when asked about Rodgers suitability for the Manchester United job recently should it arise. He commented:

 

“The Mourinho’s and even Van Gaal’s, somebody you’d listen to, you don’t listen to Ole and nobody listens to Brendan Rodgers either.

“Brendan Rodgers doesn’t have the character to be a leader at Manchester United.”

 

I personally think that with top international players, who've probably played under top elite coaches that is quite possibly true. They would see straight through any extended blarney and bullshit. I remember Glen Johnson in interview told of how some of the senior players at Liverpool used to laugh at Rodgers behind his back. Who knows, possibly even some of our players currently have lost a little bit of faith in him, his philosophy and his tactics? 

 

What happened to Mourinho and Van Gaal at United? 

 

Equally I'd say Rodgers has a lot more respect for his achievements/management now than he did nearly seven seasons ago. 

 

Steven Gerrard - probably the most senior player at Liverpool has said that he has 'stole' some of Rodgers management style - https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/19092617.liverpool-great-steven-gerrard-stole-ex-celtic-boss-brendan-rodgers-joined-rangers/ and used one of his tricks (which apparently Rodgers used in the Cup Final as well) - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steven-gerrard-reveals-astonishing-brendan-22905781 - I quote 

 "I used to like it, I liked that technique.

"He really pulled on your heartstrings before games, he did it for the majority of games that season.

"He picked a different player, it was very clever, I liked the way he would do it in secret, I think it was brilliant.'

[turlo]

 

This guys meant to be quite reliable with his info. 

 

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

29 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Lost me after Steve Nicol

There is a certain merit in that 🤣, but he may have at least some insight into the Liverpool dressing room thoughts at the time too?

[don_danbury]

utd should be aiming higher than rodgers really.

[Dan LCFC]

5 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

This is a huge week for him. Thursdays game was always a must win but had we won on Saturday and then we slipped up in the EL which is on a knife edge then it wouldn't be quite as bad as we'd be saying that we're back in a decent position in the league to focus on. Now we are back to feeling very out of sorts and inconsistent and we may have to temper our expectations. It will take something very seismic for us to navigate through this and have what we would consider a successful season based on what we've become accustomed to under Rodgers.

 

Get that win by any means possible on Thursday please Brendan. 

Surely we win Thursday. I don't rate Spartak at all. Soon as we made it 2-1 I was fairly confident we'd win.

[volpeazzurro]

27 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Who doesn't laugh behind their boss back at times and think they could do a better job.

 

I think most people in the world have done it at some point.

True, but Johnson did at least explain some of the reasons why. Having played under Mourhino at Chelsea when Rodgers was on the coaching staff he then became manager at Liverpool when Johnson was there. Rodgers apparently tried to adopt or even mimic his former mentor,  so much so that he would repeat/copy some of his phrases. Apparently at times he forgot himself and broke out into a kind of Irish pseudo Portuguese accent which was quite something to behold 🤣.

Of course, working with someone at the time of the stature of Mourinho could only be a good thing though the tone of the interview suggested that Rodgers wasn't very convincing. 

[Kilworthfox]

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It's straightforward to say next when you don't have to pick a replacement. 

 

It depends on the objectives the owner/club have set him.

 

What would you deem as being successful? 

What has he failed at?

 

2018/19 he arrived with us 12th, and we finished 9th, so he improved our position. 

 

2019/20 he improved on the previous season with 5th place, our second highest PL finish. Whilst getting us to our first Semi-Final in 19 years. 

 

2020/21, he finishes 5th again, improving our previous season point total for 62pts to 66pts. Delivers the club's first FA Cup win in our history. 
Delivers back to back European football for the first time in our history.

 

2021/22 Wins the Community Shield for only the second time in our history.

 

Granted, we have had an average start, and he does have faults and makes mistakes.

 

But a failure, really? 

 

You can't argue with facts, and I see you've made the effort to prove that he is better than Puel, which I agree wholeheartedly. 

 

We have historically not been a title contender, it is sadly true. This doesn't mean we can not be going forward. Some will think, who do you think we are? I think we are Leicester Fu cking City mate!

 

I am sure if you look hard enough, you can find incompetence anywhere, and also achievements like the Charity Shield, which is of no significance to me...

I don't believe BR to be incompetent, but I do believe he is underachieving (therefore this warrants serious analysis to see if someone could be doing a better job), also I do not believe him to be humble enough to search within (A major flaw), to see why the team is under performing (that would be a progressive manager), thus, I have my opinion, that I believe it best for LCFC, and possibly himself that we are to end the working agreement.

 

I see a VERY worrying trends continued from the last 2 seasons.

 

We create very few goal scoring opportunities from open play! 

We believe we will out pass the opposition defence its becoming cringeworthy, like playing Hey Jude when either of the Scousers come to town.

We are over reliant on our star player to produce a "moment" from nothing to win a game.

We can not defend well any set piece.

We very rarely score from a set piece.

We can punish when we press, but we are passive far too often.

We only start playing when the game is gone, or almost gone.

We are becoming an arrogant team, one that I do not like, this comes from the Manager.

 

I believe we are sleepwalking into a crisis!!!!!!!!!

 

Against Arsenal we deserved to lose. We can not defend from a set piece.

Against Brighton we deserved to lose, we punished 2 errors, yet created noting from open play.

Against Brentford we deserved nothing (saved by Tielemans).

Against Spartak we were saved by Daka

Against Man U we deserved to win (Yet they were terrible) Nice to see us press from the front, but have to acknowledge we were allowed too.

Against Palace we crumbled in defence, very very unconvincing...

Against Legia it was a thoroughly disgraceful performance! This is where BR lost me.

Against Burnley we deserved nothing, lucky to escape with a point at home.

Millwall deserved win. (Job done, but it's Millwall in a cup that is no ones priority)

Against Brighton I actually thought we were the better team (but we can not defend set pieces).

Against Napoli we couldn't defend against a physical opponent, threw away 2 goals, see Palace.

Man City are better at being Old Barcelona than we are. No complaints.

Norwich were punished for 2 errors, we created nothing in open play. See Brighton.

Wolves couldn't score, a little like the Brentford game, their attack let us off the hook.

 

It gave me no joy to write the above. I want us to be the best we can be in all aspects of football. Our club has some wonderful aspects, but I believe these are diminishing with every poor result. That I am unable to Forgive BR for, in this "golden age" as a Leicester fan, because the potential at the club is so high, but the results are so lacking. We all know where our best players will be if we finish mid table, it will not be with a fox on their chests, and the Recruitment department, Academy or both, will have a huge job to do, and do it very well, for us to return to the higher places within this division.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

36 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

What happened to Mourinho and Van Gaal at United? 

 

Equally I'd say Rodgers has a lot more respect for his achievements/management now than he did nearly seven seasons ago. 

 

Steven Gerrard - probably the most senior player at Liverpool has said that he has 'stole' some of Rodgers management style - https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/sport/19092617.liverpool-great-steven-gerrard-stole-ex-celtic-boss-brendan-rodgers-joined-rangers/ and used one of his tricks (which apparently Rodgers used in the Cup Final as well) - https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/steven-gerrard-reveals-astonishing-brendan-22905781 - I quote 

 "I used to like it, I liked that technique.

"He really pulled on your heartstrings before games, he did it for the majority of games that season.

"He picked a different player, it was very clever, I liked the way he would do it in secret, I think it was brilliant.'

I don't think Nicol was remotely talking about their success, though both in their time have achieved good things. It was more about the stature of gravitas of certain managers in the game and how top professionals would receive them. For example, Pep, Tuchel and Klopp, perhaps even Zidane would have a lot more about them than Rodgers perhaps. 

 

As for his achievements at Celtic for example, in the circumstances, I hardly think they were mind blowing. As for here, on paper it looks good for the size of club we are but in reality, with the squad he inherited, in the particular seasons he's had us, a top 5/6 should reasonably have been expected I think. This season perhaps less so.

 

Gerrard is quite right in highlighting what he did and I'm sure it's the truth. I don't think that the man management aspect of his overall skill set is in much doubt together with his supposed coaching abilities. However, I think there are certainly some doubts about his match day tactics despite injuries. It's not always the results, good or bad, but the overall performance of the team and don't think that has been very good for a long time now. 

Edited 1 November 2021 by volpeazzurro

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

I personally think that with top international players, who've probably played under top elite coaches that is quite possibly true. They would see straight through any extended blarney and bullshit. I remember Glen Johnson in interview told of how some of the senior players at Liverpool used to laugh at Rodgers behind his back. Who knows, possibly even some of our players currently have lost a little bit of faith in him, his philosophy and his tactics? 

 

.....managers have players that will buy into their philosophy and others that will not like him, pretty much run of the mill!!!

I do believe Maddison is one of those pushing his buttons and the way he handles him is a pointer to the rest of his tenure.

[volpeazzurro]

14 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.....managers have players that will buy into their philosophy and others that will not like him, pretty much run of the mill!!!

I do believe Maddison is one of those pushing his buttons and the way he handles him is a pointer to the rest of his tenure.

Yes I think you're right and most players would hopefully try their best to buy into a managers ideas and anyway, after all, they are paid employees and should do as their boss asks. I also think Rodgers would do it in the right way too.

 

The problem perhaps comes IF after a considerable time, the managers philosophy appears to the players to be flawed which can then cause unrest perhaps. There's a difference in how you actually lose games at times ie the other team is clearly better, you were just unlucky on the day or alternatively, you feel that with the system or tactics employed, you were almost doomed from the start.

 

As for Maddison I suppose it's a case of watch this space. He certainly annoyed me at the weekend and quite a number of other people on here and around where I was sitting. Would Rodgers have been aware? He's not a stupid man and I don't think much gets past him. A difficult situation for him nevertheless. 

Edited 1 November 2021 by volpeazzurro

[CosbehFox]

30 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I don't think Nicol was remotely talking about their success, though both in their time have achieved good things. It was more about the stature of gravitas of certain managers in the game and how top professionals would receive them. For example, Pep, Tuchel and Klopp, perhaps even Zidane would have a lot more about them than Rodgers perhaps. 

 

As for his achievements at Celtic for example, in the circumstances, I hardly think they were mind blowing. As for here, on paper it looks good for the size of club we are but in reality, with the squad he inherited, in the particular seasons he's had us, a top 5/6 should reasonably have been expected I think. This season perhaps less so.

 

Gerrard is quite right in highlighting what he did and I'm sure it's the truth. I don't think that the man management aspect of his overall skill set is in much doubt together with his supposed coaching abilities. However, I think there are certainly some doubts about his match day tactics despite injuries. It's not always the results, good or bad, but the overall performance of the team and don't think that has been very good for a long time now. 

So what is Nicol taking about? Success is the true indicator at big clubs of the manager's talent. Van Gaal and Mourinho are now dinosaurs - in fact not far off a similar status of Nicol to be fair. Van Gaal hasn't been touched since Man U before he found the ideal international job and Mourinho failed at Spurs, while his time at Roma already looks like it's going to be a very short term stay. 

 

Those characters simply don't operate or succeed in the current guise of football. Tuchel and Klopp are very much in the similar mould of Rodgers where they had to earn their manager 'stripes' at lesser clubs before gaining the 'gravitas'. Pep, less so, but he had to earn himself up through the ladder of Barca's youth teams. Zidane, personally, I find a bit of freak management wise and I don't know how he'd fare outside of Real Madrid. 

 

His achievements at Celtic are unmatched in the history of their club. They were the first Scottish side to be unbeaten in a season since 1899! Broke a 100 year record with the longest unbeaten run of any British club. Completed a double treble which had never been achieved in the history of the club. 

 

The squad he inherited here was 12th in the league. They finished 9th and 12th before his arrival saw a good spell of form push us to 9th. In the summer of 2019, did we expect a top six finish? Our signings were Tielemans, Perez and Praet. We lost Maguire leaving a big gap in that position. It's hardly screaming expectations of top six. There's a huge amount of revisionism that the squad was ready for CL or top six football. It simply wasn't and the stats prove that of previous table positions. 

 

 

[volpeazzurro]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

So what is Nicol taking about? Success is the true indicator at big clubs of the manager's talent. Van Gaal and Mourinho are now dinosaurs - in fact not far off a similar status of Nicol to be fair. Van Gaal hasn't been touched since Man U before he found the ideal international job and Mourinho failed at Spurs, while his time at Roma already looks like it's going to be a very short term stay. 

 

Those characters simply don't operate or succeed in the current guise of football. Tuchel and Klopp are very much in the similar mould of Rodgers where they had to earn their manager 'stripes' at lesser clubs before gaining the 'gravitas'. Pep, less so, but he had to earn himself up through the ladder of Barca's youth teams. Zidane, personally, I find a bit of freak management wise and I don't know how he'd fare outside of Real Madrid. 

 

His achievements at Celtic are unmatched in the history of their club. They were the first Scottish side to be unbeaten in a season since 1899! Broke a 100 year record with the longest unbeaten run of any British club. Completed a double treble which had never been achieved in the history of the club. 

 

The squad he inherited here was 12th in the league. They finished 9th and 12th before his arrival saw a good spell of form push us to 9th. In the summer of 2019, did we expect a top six finish? Our signings were Tielemans, Perez and Praet. We lost Maguire leaving a big gap in that position. It's hardly screaming expectations of top six. There's a huge amount of revisionism that the squad was ready for CL or top six football. It simply wasn't and the stats prove that of previous table positions. 

 

 

I still think you're missing the point with the first bit, yes the aforementioned are perhaps dinosaurs but at the time, because of their history, they almost commanded initial respect regardless of their later results. Should Alex Ferguson suddenly take over the reigns at Leicester, I think there'd initially be a sense of awe compared to Rodgers don't you and he's definitely a dinosaur. 

 

I hardly think you could compare Rodgers success to Klopp's even remotely, it's toy town in comparison. Whatever the Scottish record on paper, when Rodgers got there following his Liverpool sacking whereby no Premiership club would touch him with a bargepole, any recognised competition in the shape of Rangers had disappeared! You'd have to have been pretty poor not to succeed and didn't he conveniently jump ship just in time! Not only did he jump ship because he could see that his easy reign was coming to an end he knew he was on to another low risk promising opportunity here too. I don't blame him. I think he was very astute in doing. There's a reason why he didn't leap for the poisoned chalice of Spurs and Arsenal for similar astute reasons. He's a clever man. 

[CosbehFox]

39 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

I still think you're missing the point with the first bit, yes the aforementioned are perhaps dinosaurs but at the time, because of their history, they almost commanded initial respect regardless of their later results. Should Alex Ferguson suddenly take over the reigns at Leicester, I think there'd initially be a sense of awe compared to Rodgers don't you and he's definitely a dinosaur. 

 

I hardly think you could compare Rodgers success to Klopp's even remotely, it's toy town in comparison. Whatever the Scottish record on paper, when Rodgers got there following his Liverpool sacking whereby no Premiership club would touch him with a bargepole, any recognised competition in the shape of Rangers had disappeared! You'd have to have been pretty poor not to succeed and didn't he conveniently jump ship just in time! Not only did he jump ship because he could see that his easy reign was coming to an end he knew he was on to another low risk promising opportunity here too. I don't blame him. I think he was very astute in doing. There's a reason why he didn't leap for the poisoned chalice of Spurs and Arsenal for similar astute reasons. He's a clever man. 

No I got your point perfectly. I am discrediting Nicol's opinion. Rodgers would command respect at Manchester United amongst the squad because his history of turning a mid-table squad into a team knocking on the door of Champions League and winning trophies (the latter which United haven't done in Rodgers time at LCFC).

 

Btw, I'd argue Ferguson managerially isn't a dinosaur - his constant evolvement when it came to squads and tactics is very much the high bar and still is. Did Ferguson command respect when he joined Manchester United as an Aberdeen manager? That's my point. He probably did at the time given with success in Scotland regardless of league status. He was not some finished article who'd won an European Cup. 

 

I haven't compared Rodgers and Klopp's success. You brought up that Rodgers' time at Celtic wasn't mind blowing but it was history making. He didn't just succeed, he beat records and was on the way to do a triple triple when he left. Rangers were in the Scottish top flight during his three years at Celtic, he didn't just beat them though, he did it by some distance.

 

I do compare their careers of Klopp where he had to earn his time at Mainz and then Dortmund....which people often forget finished with them in the bottom half of the Bundesliga. When he joined Liverpool, Klopp hadn't won a trophy for five years. 

 

Tuchel is interesting because before he joined PSG. He'd actually only won the German Cup at Dortmund. Bit like Rodgers now. Yet for a while he must have commanded respect at PSG as they won trophies. Generally speak his time was considered a disappointment. It's not some 'wow' appointment really. 

 

I don't disagree that Rodgers time might be at a natural end here. However, the revisionism and I would say lack of respect shown to his achievements by some Leicester fans/pundits is totally unfair. In fact given his achievement at Leicester completing a historical itch disgraceful. 

 

 

 

Edited 1 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[Les-TA-Jon]

6 hours ago, Kilworthfox said:

There is a top 4 side within this Leicester team that he is unable to find. The continual defensive passes, and risk averse football is laborious. Next!

Well he's made us a top 5 side for 2 seasons. I'm not sure why you think this squad is definitely a top 4 side, when there's around a 30 year trend of it being incredibly difficult to break into the top 4. 

 

I'd kinda argue the opposite and say that BR has got this squad overachieving by finishing 5th twice and winning the FA Cup. 

[don_danbury]

5 minutes ago, Les-TA-Jon said:

Well he's made us a top 5 side for 2 seasons. I'm not sure why you think this squad is definitely a top 4 side, when there's around a 30 year trend of it being incredibly difficult to break into the top 4. 

 

I'd kinda argue the opposite and say that BR has got this squad overachieving by finishing 5th twice and winning the FA Cup. 

which teams should've finished ahead the last two seasons based on their squads? i think 5th 6th is pretty much the aim for this squad imo

[Corky]

26 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

 

I don't disagree that Rodgers time might be at a natural end here. However, the revisionism and I would say lack of respect shown to his achievements by some Leicester fans/pundits is totally unfair. In fact given his achievement at Leicester completing a historical itch disgraceful. 

 

Bang on. I really think people underestimate how much a manager would have to do to beat Rodgers' achievements (more points and another trophy). Because that's what we want from the next man, surely?

[Les-TA-Jon]

1 minute ago, don_danbury said:

which teams should've finished ahead the last two seasons based on their squads? i think 5th 6th is pretty much the aim for this squad imo

I can't tell if you agree with me or not haha