Brendan Rodgers

[Lambert09]

51 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I pray to God that Levy can match the master craftsman's ambitions.

 

Rodgers. Congerton. A blank chequebook. 

 

The only 3 things holding spurs back from greatness. You know what yo do Levy!

they would just go back to levy controlling all transfers… which is what he wants. and conte has probably just validated him somewhat as his moves have all been pretty honking. 

 

I think he could get away with things at a club like spurs if he didn’t touch transfers. They actually are perfect for him because they aren’t used to being winners so there’s less pressure. 

 

 

[weller54]

O, go on Levy...

You know it makes sense 😜

[Finnegan]

10 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

The violent lack of success on the pitch during his tenure would suggest otherwise to me. I think BR is exactly the kind of appointment he’d make. 

 

Might be an unpopular opinion but for me, the fact he turned Tottenham from the punchline of this joke:

 

 

To being Champions League regulars and even finalists is "success on the pitch." Especially when you consider that through most of their "peak" years Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City have absolutely blown everyone out of the water. They might not have won silverware but they've still had absolutely massive growth in their actual performance and the fact there's even an expectation that they SHOULD be winning silverware is amazing. 

 

It's not like they've missed a lot of opportunities other than 15/16.

 

Spurs were literally mid table fodder for 30 or 40 odd years and now they're an established part of a so called Big Six with an absolutely staggering commercial income. I mean off the pitch what he's brought to them is immense. 

 

Five years ago, Tottenham had 40% less total revenue than Arsenal, they now make 20% more. 

 

Over the same period Tottenham have gone from having 54% less commercial revenue than Arsenal to now making 30% more. Again, that's absurd growth. Especially when you think about how much of a "brand" Arsenal are. 

 

 

 

We all love to take the piss out of Spurs and I'm not trying to end that, I mean it provides plentiful entertainment. But let's be honest, there's much, much worse run clubs. 

 

I see the fact they haven't won trophies during his tenure as less of a damming indictment on Levy and more just a reflection on how insane it is that we've won the league and FA Cup in the last seven years. 

 

 

 

[kingkisnorbo]

2 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Might be an unpopular opinion but for me, the fact he turned Tottenham from the punchline of this joke:

 

 

To being Champions League regulars and even finalists is "success on the pitch." Especially when you consider that through most of their "peak" years Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City have absolutely blown everyone out of the water. They might not have won silverware but they've still had absolutely massive growth in their actual performance and the fact there's even an expectation that they SHOULD be winning silverware is amazing. 

 

It's not like they've missed a lot of opportunities other than 15/16.

 

Spurs were literally mid table fodder for 30 or 40 odd years and now they're an established part of a so called Big Six with an absolutely staggering commercial income. I mean off the pitch what he's brought to them is immense. 

 

Five years ago, Tottenham had 40% less total revenue than Arsenal, they now make 20% more. 

 

Over the same period Tottenham have gone from having 54% less commercial revenue than Arsenal to now making 30% more. Again, that's absurd growth. Especially when you think about how much of a "brand" Arsenal are. 

 

 

 

We all love to take the piss out of Spurs and I'm not trying to end that, I mean it provides plentiful entertainment. But let's be honest, there's much, much worse run clubs. 

 

I see the fact they haven't won trophies during his tenure as less of a damming indictment on Levy and more just a reflection on how insane it is that we've won the league and FA Cup in the last seven years. 

 

 

 

That’s sort of the problem for a lot of Spurs fans though. He’s effectively maximising value by building a giant stadium and putting on Beyoncé concerts but hasn’t yielded anything tangible for the supporters. That Law tweet earlier about how he’s employed managers that have won 61 trophies in their respective careers but couldn’t win once at Spurs is rather damning. Being logistically successful means zilch to a bloke who’s been going to White Hart Lane all his life. 

[AKCJ]

Really would be the dream scenario but I think they'll go for Poch.

[The Doctor]

20 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

. That Law tweet earlier about how he’s employed managers that have won 61 trophies in their respective careers but couldn’t win once at Spurs is rather damning. 

eh, of the 66 main domestic trophies (League, FA Cup, League Cup) available since he took over as chairman, 60% (40 trophies) have been won by Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City. Levy's done well to build up the club to be a top six side but it's really difficult for any side to compete with billions of oil wealth/Man Utds long standing commercial dominance 

 

edit: 66 included this season, so it's 62.5% (40 of 64) at the moment, only as low as 60% if man city don't win the league or FA cup

Edited 21 March 2023 by The Doctor

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, filbertway said:

Depends. His footballing philosophy has changed a lot. He's not an attacking coach anymore. If his negativity and suicidal tactics faltered at Spurs he would be under intense scrutiny much quicker.

I don't think he's changed, he's a flawed manager who's got various strong traits and many weaknesses. The strengths seem to outweigh the weaknesses significantly to start with and they would at Spurs IMO. It's when he faces failure at crunch moments that it starts to unravel. 

[filbertway]

Just now, Ric Flair said:

I don't think he's changed, he's a flawed manager who's got various strong traits and many weaknesses. The strengths seem to outweigh the weaknesses significantly to start with and they would at Spurs IMO. It's when he faces failure at crunch moments that it starts to unravel. 

Hmmm, I'd encourage you to watch any footie from 2019 and then watch the past 2 seasons and tell me the football philosophy hasn't changed.

 

Someone made a good point earlier though, people probably buy into him at first, then the more he contradicts himself and says mental things, he probably loses people along the way. 

 

Whether a change of scenary would see him return to high press football with an emphasis on actually trying to score. It'll likely revert back to suicidal football and no intention to attack with any pace though.

 

I'm telling you. Boxing day 2019 changed that man's footballing outlook.

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

He's unhappy here because we don't have a squad full of Roy Keanes who can self motivate and instead have a bunch of young guys that actually need to be man-managed. 

 

Given that Conte is essentially bemoaning the exact same thing at Tottenham, it would be fvcking insane for both Rodgers and Spurs for the two to unite. 

 

I think Rodgers has the hubris to believe he can go anywhere and be successful but if Spurs haven't taken twenty seconds to put the dots together and realise its a poor appointment then they are thick.

 

I think it's really interesting that the person that most sees through Brand Brendan in the media is the former chairman, if Simon Jordan can see Rodgers for what he is, you'd surely expect Levy to. The man might be a tight fisted misery but he's not a fool. 

He's a manager who's great when things are new and confidence grows because of what appears to be a fresh and exciting regime. Players respond to that and I reckon they buy in to his guff that at first is packaged up as motivational and thought provoking.

 

As time goes on, he crumbles under pressure and is a nearly man IMO. His ability to continue to inspire his players weakens once that peak is reached and he's far too stubborn to be flexible in how he operates. 

 

I just think they're both as streaky and mentally weak as each other that initially it would be phenomenal, might even lead to tangible success but it won't last. However, as long as its enough to guarantee he fcuks off from here to them, I really don't care.

[Finnegan]

30 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

That Law tweet earlier about how he’s employed managers that have won 61 trophies in their respective careers but couldn’t win once at Spurs is rather damning

 

Playing devil's advocate though, how about we stop and reverse the emphasis on this fact. 

 

How amazing is it that a club like Tottenham with no significant history of success and whom were bobbing around mid table in the Premier League for decades has managed to consistently attract managers who are, respectfully, "bigger" than they are? 

 

It's also overlooking the fact that Poch went to a club where trophies are available for free or that, on the flip side, Mourinho was very much on the way down in his career. 

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Hmmm, I'd encourage you to watch any footie from 2019 and then watch the past 2 seasons and tell me the football philosophy hasn't changed.

 

Someone made a good point earlier though, people probably buy into him at first, then the more he contradicts himself and says mental things, he probably loses people along the way. 

 

Whether a change of scenary would see him return to high press football with an emphasis on actually trying to score. It'll likely revert back to suicidal football and no intention to attack with any pace though.

 

I'm telling you. Boxing day 2019 changed that man's footballing outlook.

I don't think it's that at all (the footballing approach) I agree on how he loses effectiveness with his players, as I've said before, imagine having to listen to the muck he comes out with over a sustained period of time. You'd switch off, or worse start to get seriously disillusioned.

 

The difference isn't because of the tactical approach but a culmination of his inability to keep a squad fit, poor recruitment, poor man management and breakdown in relationships with players. Put all that together and the shit he's spouted in the last 18 months and the decline is so obvious. There's no excuse for it either.

[kingkisnorbo]

5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

Playing devil's advocate though, how about we stop and reverse the emphasis on this fact. 

 

How amazing is it that a club like Tottenham with no significant history of success and whom were bobbing around mid table in the Premier League for decades has managed to consistently attract managers who are, respectfully, "bigger" than they are? 

 

It's also overlooking the fact that Poch went to a club where trophies are available for free or that, on the flip side, Mourinho was very much on the way down in his career. 

They’re the sixth most successful team in the country. Quite a significant history. 

[HankMarvin]

TOTTENHAM HOT-SPAS 

Tottenham splash out on ‘well-being guru’ so under-fire stars can relax with yoga, art classes and poetry readings

 

 

 

Rodgers must be licking his lips, this is right up his street 

[kingkisnorbo]

24 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

eh, of the 66 main domestic trophies (League, FA Cup, League Cup) available since he took over as chairman, 60% (40 trophies) have been won by Chelsea, Man Utd or Man City. Levy's done well to build up the club to be a top six side but it's really difficult for any side to compete with billions of oil wealth/Man Utds long standing commercial dominance 

 

edit: 66 included this season, so it's 62.5% (40 of 64) at the moment, only as low as 60% if man city don't win the league or FA cup

You didn’t understand what I was saying. The managers that he has employed over his tenure have amassed 61 honours totalled in their careers, but all have failed to do so at Tottenham bar one league cup. Rather incredible when you think about it. 

[filbertway]

14 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't think it's that at all (the footballing approach) I agree on how he loses effectiveness with his players, as I've said before, imagine having to listen to the muck he comes out with over a sustained period of time. You'd switch off, or worse start to get seriously disillusioned.

 

The difference isn't because of the tactical approach but a culmination of his inability to keep a squad fit, poor recruitment, poor man management and breakdown in relationships with players. Put all that together and the shit he's spouted in the last 18 months and the decline is so obvious. There's no excuse for it either.

Oh yeah it's not one thing for sure, there's plenty of stuff he does terribly.

 

However, I don't see how you can argue that we're playing similar high press football with a desire to score right through the match that we showed during his first year. I don't see any evidence of it. Just players that are now basically like broken in horses that are playing the dreary controlling football that turns him on.

 

If he takes this brand of football to Spurs, I don't see it especially enhancing them at all.

[The Doctor]

15 minutes ago, kingkisnorbo said:

You didn’t understand what I was saying. The managers that he has employed over his tenure have amassed 61 honours totalled in their careers, but all have failed to do so at Tottenham bar one league cup. Rather incredible when you think about it. 

no, I understood perfectly. success at other clubs is no guarantee of success at a specific club, and it's very difficult for Tottenham or really any other club that isn't absurdly wealthy to challenge a established global brand like Man Utd or the sheer amount of oil money that Man City and Abramovich era Chelsea have/had access to. 

[coolhandfox]

46 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Hmmm, I'd encourage you to watch any footie from 2019 and then watch the past 2 seasons and tell me the football philosophy hasn't changed.

 

Someone made a good point earlier though, people probably buy into him at first, then the more he contradicts himself and says mental things, he probably loses people along the way. 

 

Whether a change of scenary would see him return to high press football with an emphasis on actually trying to score. It'll likely revert back to suicidal football and no intention to attack with any pace though.

 

I'm telling you. Boxing day 2019 changed that man's footballing outlook.

Not sure that is fair.

 

In 2019/20 we were the 5th highest scorers in the PL and joint 3rd in 2020/21.

 

In Rodger's tenure, we have scored 4 or more 18 times in the PL, more than all other LCFC PL managers combined 

 

I argue the worse we have got defensively he becomes less adventurous.

 

His time is done, but I think too many people are trying to play down how well he did in years 1 and 2. 

 

 

 

Edited 21 March 2023 by coolhandfox

[filbertway]

6 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Not sure that is fair.

 

In 2019/20 we were the 5th highest scorers in the PL and joint 3rd in 2020/21.

 

In Rodger's tenure, we have scored 4 or more 18 times in the PL, more than all other LCFC PL managers combined 

 

I argue the worse we have got defensively he becomes less adventurous.

 

His time is done, but I think too many people are trying to play down how well he did in years 1 and 2. 

 

 

 

There was a crack spell Nov-Feb 20-21 as well to be fair.

 

Pretty sure the poor spells have totally eclipsed the good a long time ago though.

 

A change of club might see him revert back to a more positive manager.

 

We see it here once every 3 months for 3 or 4 games.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Not sure that is fair.

 

In 2019/20 we were the 5th highest scorers in the PL and joint 3rd in 2020/21.

 

In Rodger's tenure, we have scored 4 or more 18 times in the PL, more than all other LCFC PL managers combined 

 

I argue the worse we have got defensively he becomes less adventurous.

 

His time is done, but I think too many people are trying to play down how well he did in years 1 and 2. 

 

 

 

I don't entirely disagree but I reckon it's worth pointing out we have also pretty dramatically overperformed on xG in all of his seasons here - 3rd biggest overperformers in 19/20 and 20/21, 1st in 21/22, 3rd again so far this season. I would suggest that other LCFC PL managers did not have at their disposal for an extended period a team featuring one of the league's most clinical finishers and in Maddison, Barnes and Tielemans (and to a lesser extent Iheanacho) a support cast who fairly regularly conjure up goals from nothing. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve any credit at all for initially getting them firing mind but I do think our scoring record and our occasional knack for dishing out hammerings have masked mask how toothless we have often been for much of Rodgers' time here - and I should know, they're things I used to defend him with.

[coolhandfox]

4 minutes ago, filbertway said:

There was a crack spell Nov-Feb 20-21 as well to be fair.

 

Pretty sure the poor spells have totally eclipsed the good a long time ago though.

 

A change of club might see him revert back to a more positive manager.

 

We see it here once every 3 months for 3 or 4 games.

I just don't think he has it in him to sort our defensive structure, so he goes negative.

 

We haven't really been the same since losing Evans to consistent injures and Ndidi fell of the plant form wise.

[coolhandfox]

7 minutes ago, Guest said:

I don't entirely disagree but I reckon it's worth pointing out we have also pretty dramatically overperformed on xG in all of his seasons here - 3rd biggest overperformers in 19/20 and 20/21, 1st in 21/22, 3rd again so far this season. I would suggest that other LCFC PL managers did not have at their disposal for an extended period a team featuring one of the league's most clinical finishers and in Maddison, Barnes and Tielemans (and to a lesser extent Iheanacho) a support cast who fairly regularly conjure up goals from nothing. That doesn't mean he doesn't deserve any credit at all for initially getting them firing mind but I do think our scoring record and our occasional knack for dishing out hammerings have masked mask how toothless we have often been for much of Rodgers' time here - and I should know, they're things I used to defend him with.

Didn't Puel, Shakespeare, and Ranieri have access to two of the best players in the league in their prime Vardy and Mahrez?

 

Puel had all of them at some point.

 

I'm not defending the last 2 years, but in the first 2 we were pretty attacking and scored a lot of goals. 

 

Edited 21 March 2023 by coolhandfox

[deep blue]

18 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Not sure that is fair.

 

In 2019/20 we were the 5th highest scorers in the PL and joint 3rd in 2020/21.

 

In Rodger's tenure, we have scored 4 or more 18 times in the PL, more than all other LCFC PL managers combined 

 

I argue the worse we have got defensively he becomes less adventurous.

 

His time is done, but I think too many people are trying to play down how well he did in years 1 and 2. 

 

 

 

Filbertway is right.  Boxing Day 2019 we saw the first sign of his bottling nature.  Since then there have been ups and downs but there has been an underlying gradual downwards trend.

 

Such a shame because with a bolder approach we wouldn't have missed out on Champs League in 2 successive seasons and would have maintained the ambition  to keep progressing and pressing onwards.

[Corky]

Tottenham have had much bigger names than him in charge so wouldn't make him the be all and end all of football and would bin him when required.

 

He's not going there.

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, AKCJ said:

Really would be the dream scenario but I think they'll go for Poch.

...no idea why they would want to go back to him!!!

  He messed up for the league run in, flogging his players to the end, you get the impression he hasn't the feel for a situation,  just kept on doing what he has always done.

[coolhandfox]

2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

He's a manager who's great when things are new and confidence grows because of what appears to be a fresh and exciting regime. Players respond to that and I reckon they buy in to his guff that at first is packaged up as motivational and thought provoking.

 

As time goes on, he crumbles under pressure and is a nearly man IMO. His ability to continue to inspire his players weakens once that peak is reached and he's far too stubborn to be flexible in how he operates. 

 

I just think they're both as streaky and mentally weak as each other that initially it would be phenomenal, might even lead to tangible success but it won't last. However, as long as its enough to guarantee he fcuks off from here to them, I really don't care.

I think you could apply that cycle to most modern coach.

 

Which is the average tenure is 2.5 years at most clubs.

 

For me the difference between good coaches and elite is the ability to go again over a long tenure.

 

Pep, Klopp, Wenger, Fergie etc.

 

 

Edited 21 March 2023 by coolhandfox