Brendan Rodgers

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Bertrand was earning 70k a week at Southampton.

With Thomas at just 19 looking comfortable in a FA Cup final winning team and Castagne that can also play on the left and waiting on the return of an injured Ricardo who can also play on the Left. 
Was signing the 32 year old necessary?

The issue is with JJ injured. We had just Thomas, Castange and Riccardo to cover RB and LB. 

 

Castange was injured at the Euro's, and Riccardo seems unable to play every game. 

 

You need 4 fullbacks in a squad to cover the 2 fullback positions.

 

 Bertrand will cost us 7.5m over two seasons. Who do you buy for that without even thinking about wages? 

 

Once JJ is fit, we will not see a lot of Thomas or Bertrand other than the cover for cup games.

 

I rather send Thomas on loan and get 40 odd games under his belt than play the odd game here for us. Thomas is the future, and that will help his development like it did Barnes.  

 

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Takehiro Tomiyasu Cost the same as Vestergard and can cover RB and CB

 

Joachim Andersen went for similar money.

 

 

Unfortunately, Fofana got injured on the 4th of August, players like Andersen and Ajer had moved before then.

 

Takehiro Tomiyasu is an interesting one. I assume we wanted someone a little more experienced.

 

Also, anyone signing had to be happy being 4th choice behind Evans, Fofana and Soyuncu when everyone is fit. 

 

I'm not saying Vestiguard is a great signing, but I can see the logic.

[The Horse's Mouth]

41 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Is anyone actually suggesting we play counter attacking football? Because we do not! We do however on rare occasions counter the opposition because they lose the ball during their attack, allowing us to counter... that is a distinction hopefully you understand!

 

I believe LCFC to be the best counter attacking team in the Country! We just never set up to play to those strengths! This is my frustration, as BR believes in a possession based game.

Setting up to play counter attack isn't sustainable if you want success though

[coolhandfox]

18 minutes ago, MPH said:

 

so how much time do we give him before we recognize he’s playing badly? 2 more games? 5? 25?

I think everyone know he isn't, including him and BR.

 

But what other options do we have? 

18 minutes ago, MPH said:

There comes a time when someone has to take personal responsibility for their own displays.

How do you know he isn't? 

[Kilworthfox]

12 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Setting up to play counter attack isn't sustainable if you want success though

I don't believe this narrative.

[Kilworthfox]

43 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

We can't afford squad players of elite standard we aren't Man City.

 

No club can get every transfer right.

 

I also prefer to not judge players after 4 or 5 games.

 

Maybe you should write to the PL and tell them there stats for counter attack goals are wrong.

I mean elite as not a liability, as we are playing in an elite league. It doesn't take 4 or 5 games to judge a player, believe me!

 

I am not arguing the stats, did you read my post above RE: the distinction? I believe us to be a phenomenal counter attacking team! One that could win the league playing that style... is that impossible you know maybe 5000/1 but still possible, right? 

 

I am not suggesting we should be winning the league every year, before some easy points get scored... however I am suggesting that we should always play to our players strengths, or have an identity and recruit players to play within that system. Some of our players are clearly struggling with BR system. Hence our performances and results. You can come up with as many stats as you want, but we concede more than we score and are mid table at best, that is not acceptable with the squad and first 11 we have.

 

 

Edited 2 November 2021 by Kilworthfox

[Dahnsouff]

59 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Is anyone actually suggesting we play counter attacking football? Because we do not! We do however on rare occasions counter the opposition because they lose the ball during their attack, allowing us to counter... that is a distinction hopefully you understand!

 

I believe LCFC to be WERE the best counter attacking team in the Country! We just never set up to play to those strengths! This is my frustration, as BR believes in a possession based game.

Do you honestly believe that a team that just (or mostly) relies on counter attacks could achieve sustainable success?

[messerschmitt]

26 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

A back up of sorts was required for the left back position. Castagne, Ricardo, and Thomas would not have been enough for at least half a season as you lose 1 through injury you have no rotation options, JJ is also very unlikely to be back to his usual self for a while as we have seen with Ricardo

 

Tomiyasu was much more of a right back than he was a centre back at Bologna, and has only been a right back at Arsenal. Club may have felt he isn't good enough as a centre back.

 

Joachim Andersen joined Palace before the Fofana injury, when we wouldn't have been looking to make a permanent centre back signing.

 

Also remember the point was Rodgers wanted a Premier League experienced centre back, which Tomiyasu wasn't.

Thanks @moore_94 was there much movement from us to get Kabak?

[moore_94]

Just now, messerschmitt said:

Thanks @moore_94 was there much movement from us to get Kabak?

A lot rumours from foreign press but most domestic press denied it all

 

After seeing how he has been for Norwich so far I am glad we didn't go near him, just as bad as Vestergaard

[Kilworthfox]

1 minute ago, Dahnsouff said:

Do you honestly believe that a team that just (or mostly) relies on counter attacks could achieve sustainable success?

I believe you should be hard to beat and play to your strengths, then you get the best results, with the group of players you have.

 

Its like putting a circle shape into a circle shaped hole, rather than trying to make a rectangle fit into it instead.

 

If we can out play an opposition, then great, lets out play them, if not lets have a change... I rarely see this pragmatic approach, which brings the frustration!

 

Please can any of you explain the disappointing performances? Tell me how we are going about our business, is the best way of utilising the players we have abilities! If we have injuries, and the cover players are not as good as the first team players, should we not change to a system that they can be effective in? Just an idea...

[BKLFox]

1 hour ago, HankMarvin said:

Bertrand was earning 70k a week at Southampton.

With Thomas at just 19 looking comfortable in a FA Cup final winning team and Castagne that can also play on the left and waiting on the return of an injured Ricardo who can also play on the Left. 
Was signing the 32 year old necessary?

 

Takehiro Tomiyasu Cost the same as Vestergard and can cover RB and CB

 

Joachim Andersen went for similar money.

 

 

I'd assume 80% of Bertrand's planned role was off field activites due to losing older (wiser) heads of Morgan & Fuchs, when all fit he will be behind Justin, Timmy, Ricardo & Thomas

 

To add as you mention Vestergaard, again once Fofana fit i don't think we will see Vestergaard he was solely brought as a week prior to start of the season emergency, we didn't want to pay the 15m for him but we were desperate as i say 1 week prior to the season we couldn't wait for a nugget to drop into our hands.

Edited 2 November 2021 by BKLFox

[Dahnsouff]

2 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

I believe you should be hard to beat and play to your strengths, then you get the best results, with the group of players you have.

 

Its like putting a circle shape into a circle shaped hole, rather than trying to make a rectangle fit into it instead.

 

If we can out play an opposition, then great, lets out play them, if not lets have a change... I rarely see this pragmatic approach, which brings the frustration!

 

Please can any of you explain the disappointing performances? Tell me how we are going about our business, is the best way of utilising the players we have abilities! If we have injuries, and the cover players are not as good as the first team players, should we not change to a system that they can be effective in? Just an idea...

I do understand the frustration, I really do. I have no idea how to fix it or what is at fault, but the capacity for such counter attacks, as those we won the title with, are long past unfortuantely.  

 

This season has been derailed by the injury first to Wes, then to Jonny, its cack but I think we seriously struggled all over the pitch because of those injuries  

[volpeazzurro]

34 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Setting up to play counter attack isn't sustainable if you want success though

There was a decent team in 2015/16 that did alright with it over a whole season, the players were cheap as chips as well!

[coolhandfox]

20 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

I mean elite as not a liability, as we are playing in an elite league. It doesn't take 4 or 5 games to judge a player, believe me!

 So after 4-5 games, you thought Vardy was a top PL striker?

20 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

 

I am not arguing the stats, did you read my post above RE: the distinction? I believe us to be a phenomenal counter attacking team! One that could win the league playing that style... is that impossible you know maybe 5000/1 but still possible, right? 

 

I am not suggesting we should be winning the league every year, before some easy points get scored... however I am suggesting that we should always play to our players strengths, or have an identity and recruit players to play within that system. Some of our players are clearly struggling with BR system. Hence our performances and results. You can come up with as many stats as you want, but we concede more than we score and are mid table at best, that is not acceptable with the squad and first 11 we have.

Since the start of BR first full season (19/20) in charge, only Liverpool have scored more counter-attacking goals then LCFC according to the PL website.

 

A season is 38 games not 10.

 

[BKLFox]

I'm sure some are confusing counter attacking play as just lumping the ball from deep within our own half for Vardy to run onto than the actual definition

[Dahnsouff]

4 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

There was a decent team in 2015/16 that did alright with it over a whole season, the players were cheap as chips as well!

Would never work today unfortunately.

[Kilworthfox]

8 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I do understand the frustration, I really do. I have no idea how to fix it or what is at fault, but the capacity for such counter attacks, as those we won the title with, are long past unfortuantely.  

 

This season has been derailed by the injury first to Wes, then to Jonny, its cack but I think we seriously struggled all over the pitch because of those injuries  

Football is a beautiful game l, where there are many ways to win. 

 

For me to watch Barcelona of the 2010s was great, and highly successful, yet not everyone has that quality to play in that way. 

 

Equally you can find other teams like Forest and Dundee United  in the 1980s who utilised counter attacking football and organisation because they didn't have the budgets to win like the rich clubs..  Surely sounds familiar 😊

 

It is all opinions, and I feel that mine aren't crazy at all. I want the best for the club and everyone connected, we all just see a different way to that success. 

[coolhandfox]

6 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

There was a decent team in 2015/16 that did alright with it over a whole season, the players were cheap as chips as well!

It was but as the 2016/17 season showed its not easy to keep up.

 

Over the last two season we are only second to Liverpool on counter attacking goals 

[Kilworthfox]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

 So after 4-5 games, you thought Vardy was a top PL striker?

Since the start of BR first full season (19/20) in charge, only Liverpool have scored more counter-attacking goals then LCFC according to the PL website.

 

A season is 38 games not 10.

 

Definately not he was poor when he first arrived. 

 

So you agree we are a very good counter attacking team? 

 

Thank you for informing me about the length of the season. 

[Kilworthfox]

1 minute ago, pmcla26 said:

@Kilworthfox

 

Rodgers' tactics aren't solely based on possession. He likes to control and strangle games in and out of possession. He's spoken about this before on many occasions. 

 

@volpeazzurro

 

I'd argue we didn't actually always set up to play on the counter in 15/16. We often pressed teams quite high as well, particularly in the first half of the season. Every top side can do both. Our problem in 16/17 was that we were only able to counter and look how that turned out. 

Excellent post 👍🏼

 

Ok but still the point remains, are we effective doing it? 

 

Is continuing to attempt to control the game effective? 

 

If we pressed high like against Manchester United then I feel we would be having much better results and better to watch and get behind, rather then maintaining posession in defense which is worse than awful to watch. 

 

Like I've said... You have to decide what you want to be then utilise the players within that system. 

 

I don't know what we are trying to achieve..  And it will lead to crisis. I dont mind writing this, as if things continue as they are, I will be proved correct, or things will change and results will improve, either way I will be right or pleased. 

 

 

[coolhandfox]

2 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

Definately not he was poor when he first arrived. 

So you do need more than 4 or 5 games to judge a player, unlike what you said earlier? 

2 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

So you agree we are a very good counter attacking team? 

I never said we weren't. You said Rodgers had stopped us counter-attacking, when in fact, we have been 2nd best team in the league over his time here

[CosbehFox]

35 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

There was a decent team in 2015/16 that did alright with it over a whole season, the players were cheap as chips as well!

The reality is though the counter attacking tactics stopped that season after Arsenal A.
 

That game showed some of the short falls. 
 

If you look at our goals from that Arsenal game, I think I have our 2nd goal at Sunderland in the dying minutes and 1st goal v West Ham from their corner as outright counter attacking goals. There was lot of set pieces goals and Mahrez being an absolute magician when it came to assists/goals. A good third of the season we had to evolve in style as we were playing teams who were not interested in attacking the same way a bigger club would. 

Edited 2 November 2021 by Cardiff_Fox

[MPH]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

I think everyone know he isn't, including him and BR.

 

But what other options do we have? 

How do you know he isn't? 

 

I was  actually talking about you.. instead of  using so many excuses, I’m just accepting that he’s playing badly at the moment.

[volpeazzurro]

34 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Would never work today unfortunately.

It would be nice to have Kante, Marhez and Drinkwater back with Vardy as they were just for a couple of weeks just to see how destructive it could still be. Yes, teams knew precisely what we did but were largely powerless to stop it. 🤣

[David Hankey]

My prediction of Brendan to the 'Spuds' was purely speculation.

[volpeazzurro]

37 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

@Kilworthfox

 

Rodgers' tactics aren't solely based on possession. He likes to control and strangle games in and out of possession. He's spoken about this before on many occasions. 

 

@volpeazzurro

 

I'd argue we didn't actually always set up to play on the counter in 15/16. We often pressed teams quite high as well, particularly in the first half of the season. Every top side can do both. Our problem in 16/17 was that we were only able to counter and look how that turned out. 

Yes, your quite right there in fairness. I still think we look good on the front foot pressing when we've tried it.