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Fox92

Brendan Rodgers

By Fox92, in Leicester City Forum

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Dahnsouff

Dahnsouff

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

It would be nice to have Kante, Marhez and Drinkwater back with Vardy as they were just for a couple of weeks just to see how destructive it could still be. Yes, teams knew precisely what we did but were largely powerless to stop it. 🤣

Drinkwaters hair must be down to his knees by now

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

It was but as the 2016/17 season showed its not easy to keep up.

 

Over the last two season we are only second to Liverpool on counter attacking goals 

Perhaps we should try a bit more of it perhaps then and press high up the pitch. At least mix it up a bit more instead of being so predictable. Whilst semi hopeful long balls can be only 50/50 at times, it does at least keep the opposition wary and quite often it less than 50/50 when we dawdle round at the back with it.

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Kilworthfox

Kilworthfox

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

So you do need more than 4 or 5 games to judge a player, unlike what you said earlier? 

I never said we weren't. You said Rodgers had stopped us counter-attacking, when in fact, we have been 2nd best team in the league over his time here

No I would just have been wrong. In general you can judge a player very quickly.

 

So we are the 2nd most successful counter attacking team, whilst not setting up to try to counter attack... As we have already established BR sets up to control the game. Maybe that makes you wonder about that?

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, Kilworthfox said:

I believe you should be hard to beat and play to your strengths, then you get the best results, with the group of players you have.

 

Its like putting a circle shape into a circle shaped hole, rather than trying to make a rectangle fit into it instead.

 

If we can out play an opposition, then great, lets out play them, if not lets have a change... I rarely see this pragmatic approach, which brings the frustration!

 

Please can any of you explain the disappointing performances? Tell me how we are going about our business, is the best way of utilising the players we have abilities! If we have injuries, and the cover players are not as good as the first team players, should we not change to a system that they can be effective in? Just an idea...

As I said before the best players within our squad for a counter attacking style have recently been injured/are injured or inconsistent form from injury. Hence we’ve backed off a bit from that.
 

To really get the best out of the counter attack, we need pace on the flanks. By playing wingers though means dropping Kelechi who is really useful when teams drop deep. In terms of available wing backs with real speed, we have Ricardo whose been rather inconsistent and Justin whose injured. 
 

One of the reasons the pressing worked against Man U was how their team effectively split into two five’s and their no 10 had no interest in helping with the press. Man U completely failed to use their full backs to outnumber our wing backs. 


Ironically against Arsenal, we did go pressing at times.  This meant two things:-

 

1) their full backs used the space a lot better and Saka/Smith-Rowe were happy to track back. Our subs at half time where we went double on wings ensured that Saka and Smith-Rose had to track back. They couldn’t push up as much as they wanted too hence we had a lot of success on the reverse underlap etc. 

 

2) It also gave the easy direct ball centrally to Aubameyang (as seen when Evans fouled him). This was a result of going direct in our press. Soyuncu and Amartey (in the first half) were marking either a winger or Lacazette. One of the reasons this ball was so open to achieve was we couldn’t afford a defensive screen - Youri and Soumare were matching the midfield two when the ball was dead or in the first half when in ball, quite often having to cover the full back pushing forward. 

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Kilworthfox

Kilworthfox

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Overall, during Rodgers tenure, I'd say so, but recent times - no, we haven't been. 

 

I genuinely think it's as simple as Fofana in defence and we would be a different side. The Van Dijk effect at Liverpool - it's essentially the same on a lower quality scale in my eyes. The attack is fine (on another day we would have scored two in the second half on Saturday, was just one of those days). 

 

What I don't get is why we start so slow though, and why we have recurring problems with set pieces - they're the only two things I think Rodgers should be questioned about, personally. I can't see how tactically we could do much different and get different results. It's got to come from the players to get at it early on and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Must be hard to get in that mindset though with no Ndidi and the defence all over the place behind you.

 

We just need to ride this meh patch out and hope that as the New Year approaches that the side start firing on all cylinders. 

I hope you are right. I feel that you are able to ignore more than I can. 

 

As I wrote earlier there are many problems, and you agree with me on the set pieces and the slow starts.

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ARM1968

ARM1968

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, pmcla26 said:

Overall, during Rodgers tenure, I'd say so, but recent times - no, we haven't been. 

 

I genuinely think it's as simple as Fofana in defence and we would be a different side. The Van Dijk effect at Liverpool - it's essentially the same on a lower quality scale in my eyes. The attack is fine (on another day we would have scored two in the second half on Saturday, was just one of those days). 

 

What I don't get is why we start so slow though, and why we have recurring problems with set pieces - they're the only two things I think Rodgers should be questioned about, personally. I can't see how tactically we could do much different and get different results. It's got to come from the players to get at it early on and take the game by the scruff of the neck. Must be hard to get in that mindset though with no Ndidi and the defence all over the place behind you.

 

We just need to ride this meh patch out and hope that as the New Year approaches that the side start firing on all cylinders. 

Not really. Brendan tells em to go out and get at it from the off. Close everyone. Pressure the other team and attack. You go out and do that - simple. 

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted
Just now, volpeazzurro said:

Perhaps we should try a bit more of it perhaps then and press high up the pitch. At least mix it up a bit more instead of being so predictable. Whilst semi hopeful long balls can be only 50/50 at times, it does at least keep the opposition wary and quite often it less than 50/50 when we dawdle round at the back with it.

We barely pressed in 15/16. We were happy to let teams have the ball. Where we were excellent in 15/16 was the ‘second ball’. We had a freak in midfield who could transition up and down the pitch like a demon. 
 

We are scoring goals of that variety this season. Brentford was an excellent example of that. Norwich in part, the 2nd goal was a counter attack taking advantage of outnumbering. Spartak had three goals where we used space behind their defence. 
 

The down turn in form currently is less about attacking style. It’s more about the defensive failures. In part, Rodgers possession tactics are an attempt to rid this. 

 

 

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Not really. Brendan tells em to go out and get at it from the off. Close everyone. Pressure the other team and attack. You go out and do that - simple. 

Struggling to see how both of Arsenal’s goals on Saturday were a result of a failure to pressure or attack. 
 

Both goals stemmed from us losing the ball in possession on an attack. 

The first goal is a set piece with an unfortunate decision where Oliver fails to punish a foul. 
 

The second is Vardy / Maddison making a right fudge in possession, Thomas had gone walkies attacking and the defence was exposed. One last ditch tackle too many, goal. 

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The reality is though the counter attacking tactics stopped that season after Arsenal A.
 

That game showed some of the short falls. 
 

If you look at our goals from that Arsenal game, I think I have our 2nd goal at Sunderland in the dying minutes and 1st goal v West Ham from their corner as outright counter attacking goals. There was lot of set pieces goals and Mahrez being an absolute magician when it came to assists/goals. A good third of the season we had to evolve in style as we were playing teams who were not interested in attacking the same way a bigger club would. 

Yes, quite true in fairness although we still tried where possible I think. However, you also rightly say that at times we had to evolve and clearly did so quite successfully. We somehow appear to have lost that ability to either evolve or try different things and instead stick slavishly to a particular rigid philosophy or system. Admittedly we don't have Kante and Marhez but, overall as a team, we do have some incredibly good players. I just wonder if they feel able at times to follow their football brains or instinct or merely follow orders to the letter?

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volpeazzurro

volpeazzurro

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We barely pressed in 15/16. We were happy to let teams have the ball. Where we were excellent in 15/16 was the ‘second ball’. We had a freak in midfield who could transition up and down the pitch like a demon. 
 

We are scoring goals of that variety this season. Brentford was an excellent example of that. Norwich in part, the 2nd goal was a counter attack taking advantage of outnumbering. Spartak had three goals where we used space behind their defence. 
 

The down turn in form currently is less about attacking style. It’s more about the defensive failures. In part, Rodgers possession tactics are an attempt to rid this. 

 

 

I seem to remember Okazaki and Vardy causing all sorts of pressure by pressing the opposition?

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CosbehFox

CosbehFox

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Yes, quite true in fairness although we still tried where possible I think. However, you also rightly say that at times we had to evolve and clearly did so quite successfully. We somehow appear to have lost that ability to either evolve or try different things and instead stick slavishly to a particular rigid philosophy or system. Admittedly we don't have Kante and Marhez but, overall as a team, we do have some incredibly good players. I just wonder if they feel able at times to follow their football brains or instinct or merely follow orders to the letter?

Kinda of disagree. The changes are subtle and far less noticeable. Attacking shape is good and alters during a game. 

Man U - we isolated their CBs in 1 on 1 situations, particular on left hand side because Shaw wants to go forward

Spartak - we stopped playing in front of them and we started playing the ball behind them. 

Brentford - we made a tweak to the press and actually backed off their defence as their keeper was very good at beating the press with his passing. An example where a full press was actually opening up the midfield in their favour. 

 

In the month of October, we've been fine going forward - we've emerged 2.33 goals per game. Overall for the season, its 1.5 per game. 

 

It's the defence shape where we had problems - on Saturday, Arsenal pretty much attacked the space between the CB & WBs. This was an example where offensive move in playing wingers who have stopped their two wingers being able to attack the space between CB & WB. 

 

Edited by Cardiff_Fox
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sacreblueits442

sacreblueits442

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

 PL stats have us as 7th overall for most counter attack goals this season. 

 

7th for the 20/21 season

2nd for the 19/20 season 

...we are a team with counter attack in our DNA, but we do not set up normally to play counter attacking football!!!

  It is actually one of if not our main strengths but seek to play a possession game instead. 

  

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fuchsntf

fuchsntf

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, MPH said:


 

no ones played that great this season but I DID think we had turned a corner.

 

 

I have to say though that the only reason I think soyuncu still has his place is because the alternative is vetesagaard.

 

 

I mean, even Amartey who despite his limitations and ‘ squad member’ tag  bless him has been getting more plaudits than  Soyuncu this season!

A season has many corrners,unknown entities, no pre-programmed twists n turns..

i Don t like sport because of entitlement, forced expectation,even for all  the various sports & individuals I follow...

 

I believe you are a well Balance poster...but too many write with  clenched ar*Ses & panic, when it just doesn't click..

Then Stay high on cynical Blame & conspiracy stories....

 

On Fofana & JJ, they were not expected to come in, and make Top 4 whoopie cushions,they were young investments,to slowly Grow into the team,

Supported by more experienced players...Trouble is We saw/See inconsistent form,  niggling Awkward injuries...to all our proved Star performers,

Who are taking their own Time to find consistent performances...Taking Ricardo,Ndidi,Barnes,Maddison experiences...

Where the hell do These super-FT-supporter-wanna-be-pundits, get off on , believing youngsters JJ, and Fofana are going to wave that Magic wand,

nd come over the hill with blaring trumpets along with the cavalary

Then have the same Audacity to lay into Thomas...

I Honestly Despair ...I get more Inspiration from a Greggs Eclair...

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
28 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Perhaps we should try a bit more of it perhaps then and press high up the pitch. At least mix it up a bit more instead of being so predictable. Whilst semi hopeful long balls can be only 50/50 at times, it does at least keep the opposition wary and quite often it less than 50/50 when we dawdle round at the back with it.

I think it's a bit of a fear factor. It is easier to press high when you feel more secure at the back.

 

Everything is more straightforward in football when a team is more confident. 

 

As Man U found out against Liverpool, pressing high badly can be as bad or worse as not pressing at all.

 

We have been more aggressive and direct in recent weeks. We mixed it up well against Man U, Moscow. Brentford was more of a struggle, and Arsenal, we just had a terrible 20 minutes.

 

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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...we are a team with counter attack in our DNA, but we do not set up normally to play counter attacking football!!!

  It is actually one of if not our main strengths but seek to play a possession game instead. 

  

You can do both. According to the number of goals scored on the counter, the best counter-attacking team over the last two seasons is Liverpool.

 

They are also the team with the 2nd highest possession stats, averaging 62% possession. 

 

We are joint 2nd on the list for goals scored on the counter during the same period.

 

It's a bit of a myth that we don't set up to counter-attack while also trying to play possession football.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

The best teams do both.

 

Edited by coolhandfox
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Aus Fox

Aus Fox

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...we are a team with counter attack in our DNA, but we do not set up normally to play counter attacking football!!!

  It is actually one of if not our main strengths but seek to play a possession game instead. 

  

What the deck does that even mean? “We are a team with counter attack in our DNA”

 

Some absolute dribble on here trying to prove a point that just isn’t there.

Picking random start points to judge manager and players and ignoring actual stats and facts. Some coming out with the same football cliches that make absolutely no sense! 
This one, he’s got no plan B, he doesn’t know his best team, he keeps changing the formation and tactics.

 

How about just we’ve got a fantastic manager, is he perfect? No, would he be at Leicester if he was perfect? No.

Is he the best manager for us right now? Yes, absolutely 

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messerschmitt

messerschmitt

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

A season has many corrners,unknown entities, no pre-programmed twists n turns..

i Don t like sport because of entitlement, forced expectation,even for all  the various sports & individuals I follow...

 

I believe you are a well Balance poster...but too many write with  clenched ar*Ses & panic, when it just doesn't click..

Then Stay high on cynical Blame & conspiracy stories....

 

On Fofana & JJ, they were not expected to come in, and make Top 4 whoopie cushions,they were young investments,to slowly Grow into the team,

Supported by more experienced players...Trouble is We saw/See inconsistent form,  niggling Awkward injuries...to all our proved Star performers,

Who are taking their own Time to find consistent performances...Taking Ricardo,Ndidi,Barnes,Maddison experiences...

Where the hell do These super-FT-supporter-wanna-be-pundits, get off on , believing youngsters JJ, and Fofana are going to wave that Magic wand,

nd come over the hill with blaring trumpets along with the cavalary

Then have the same Audacity to lay into Thomas...

I Honestly Despair ...I get more Inspiration from a Greggs Eclair...

I agree a season does have many corners, unfortunately we look like we'll concede when the opposition have one and concede when we have one.

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