Brendan Rodgers

[Matt]

2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

We’ve become to easy to play against - v predictable

 

when Brendan came we could play both puelball and our quick counter attack style and Brendan brought in a more expansive version of puelball. 
 

teams worried about vardys pace and dropped deep. We then used that extra space to play between the lines with urgency. vardy is less likely to make these runs now and defences are more comfortable to squeeze us up.  We’ve lost out mojo. The result is that the opposition find it pretty easy to have a tactical plan against us that works. add to that our awful record at defending set plays and you have a recipe for what’s now going on. 

We became so easy to play against a long, long time ago.

 

We do half of the job for the opposition.

 

They couldn’t be happier for us to have possession, they know we’re no threat and they knew we’ll make a mistake, put us under pressure and we’ll flap even more so.

 

Teams will struggle to have an easier game against anyone else.

 

Even the so called ‘lesser’ teams are tougher to beat than us.

 

The media friendly tag line, motto, phrases, whatever you want to call them of ‘Foxes Never Quit’ or ‘Fearless’ we use (or have in the past) are nothing but ironic or further from the truth in this current moment. Toothless.

 

Edited 22 November 2021 by Matt

[sacreblueits442]

7 hours ago, LestaAl said:

So if he has stated his commitment to the players then assuming the players also had some input into the discussions we should see an improvement in our performance.

….hope we do  but remain sceptical until we climb up the table in the next 6 games

....wasn't the talk before the Chelsea game, or has he had another one since!!!

[The_77]

2 hours ago, George31 said:

I'm new to this forum, and genuinely staggered at all these comments.

Brendan has a 50% win record from 130 games. He's won the FA cup, got us into Europe 2 seasons running.

He's an elite manager. Weve had a slow start yes, but we've currently got Daniel Amartey in defence, who wouldnt struggle?

In my opinion our squad balance isn't right at the moment - we have too many high earners sat on the bench. If you look at West Ham and Wolverhampton, they have got exceptional morale in the group, this is what we are missing.

I just think it's just going to be a mid table season this one, and in the summer we will hopefully sort out the squad. Vardy shouldn't be a starter in every Premier league game anymore either, he just isn't quick enough now. 

Rodgers is a very good manager and probably the best we could possibly get right now. 
 

But it’s also his responsibility to do something about the morale. Every elite manager can get his team fired up and create a siege mentality when needed— we’re on a pretty long and bad run of form and we still haven’t seen that yet.  

[fox_up_north]

There's a difference between very good and elite. Pep, Klopp, Mourinho (to an extent), Simeone - all elite. They've sustained success in varying situations and maintained a relatively consistent level. 

 

Everyone has blips, for sure. Klopp's last season at Dortmund and the other year, for example.

 

But Brendan is not elite. Can he be? Yes, I think so. You don't get two consecutive top 5 finishes and an FA cup without being a high level. 

 

But then you also don't completely fall at the last hurdle two years running and get to earn the arrogance of being "elite". 

 

[oxtonfox]

13 hours ago, dannythefox said:

Rodgers will be here for ages he’ll turn this around but it’s just shite at the minute, wait till Justin and Fofona are back we’ll be fine.

It will take the rest of this season before these two are back to their best and more importantly consistent; so don't expect a great turnaround quickly, Look at Ricardo, we've only seen glimpses of his best form since he returned 1 year ago ! 

[AKCJ]

I feel like we're just down in the dumps at the moment and Brendan lacks the qualities needed to inspire the team.

 

Look at all the top managers in the world... Klopp, Simeone, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Flick, Nagelsmann, Zidane etc.

 

They're all emotional. They get involved. It's infuriating to see Brendan clapping the team along while stood still on the touchline when we're being completely battered. It's like he's watching kids football on a Sunday morning or something.

[gazzaa2]

11 hours ago, Jakemoore said:

Why do I think Brendan is an elite manager? 
 

Several reasons -

 

He took Swansea in to the premier league and got them playing in a way that earned admirers from all over the game. They were the definition of pure football at times under his stewardship. 
 

He took Liverpool from a Europa League side to a Champions League side were it not for a slippy pitch and a miss placed foot they would have won the league under him. 
 

He then went to Celtic and won everything and people always undermine this achievement by stating that Celtic should win everything as they’re the best team blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is, it’s bloody hard to win every single trophy that’s up for grabs over 3 years. It very rarely happens but he managed it. My point is further emphasised by the fact that his departure has led to Celtic now playing second fiddle to Rangers. I’m pretty sure they miss him up north. 
 

He then joined us and took us from mid-table and some pretty dreadful football to playing an exciting attacking brand of football finishing in the top 6 twice and winning an FA Cup. Yes things have plateaued recently and the football has been a lot less exciting. But I for one am sure it will return and we will get back to it sooner rather than later. 
 

And as for my opinion that we can’t won’t attract a better Manager than Brendan - it’s just my opinion after all. I don’t feel the need to defend it. 

Rodgers is a feast or famine kind of manager. Things are either going really well or really badly (often both in the same season).

 

Did a really good job in his two full seasons at Leicester but somehow managed to throw away a top 4 finish in both seasons that had been virtually assured (as he did the title at Liverpool). Did very well to get in the position but ultimately threw it away. Gerrard slipped on the halfway line, so why should that lead to a free run on goal at 0-0, in a game they only needed to draw?

 

At Celtic he blew away the competition in his first two seasons but Rangers were no challengers at the time and miles behind having only just got back in the top flight. It was starting to unravel in his 3rd season before he was ready to walk out and took this job. 

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, George31 said:

I'm new to this forum, and genuinely staggered at all these comments.

Brendan has a 50% win record from 130 games. He's won the FA cup, got us into Europe 2 seasons running.

He's an elite manager. Weve had a slow start yes, but we've currently got Daniel Amartey in defence, who wouldnt struggle?

In my opinion our squad balance isn't right at the moment - we have too many high earners sat on the bench. If you look at West Ham and Wolverhampton, they have got exceptional morale in the group, this is what we are missing.

I just think it's just going to be a mid table season this one, and in the summer we will hopefully sort out the squad. Vardy shouldn't be a starter in every Premier league game anymore either, he just isn't quick enough now. 

.. Vardy is just as quick as ever, on the ground and in his decision making!!!

   Now if you were looking at integrating Daka more quickly I can understand the need for rotation. 

  Amartey has held his own in the backline, let's not start blaming him for all our problems. 

 As for the squad balance, there are a few disillusioned players sat on our bench wondering what next ill-conceived plan Rodgers will devise which keeps them off the pitch.

[gazzaa2]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

I feel like we're just down in the dumps at the moment and Brendan lacks the qualities needed to inspire the team.

 

Look at all the top managers in the world... Klopp, Simeone, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Flick, Nagelsmann, Zidane etc.

 

They're all emotional. They get involved. It's infuriating to see Brendan clapping the team along while stood still on the touchline when we're being completely battered. It's like he's watching kids football on a Sunday morning or something.

He's always struggled to turn around a slump in his career. He was best in his first season or two at Celtic because they never even had a slump as they won every week domestically.

[BenTheFox]

27 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

There's a difference between very good and elite. Pep, Klopp, Mourinho (to an extent), Simeone - all elite. They've sustained success in varying situations and maintained a relatively consistent level. 

 

Everyone has blips, for sure. Klopp's last season at Dortmund and the other year, for example.

 

But Brendan is not elite. Can he be? Yes, I think so. You don't get two consecutive top 5 finishes and an FA cup without being a high level. 

 

But then you also don't completely fall at the last hurdle two years running and get to earn the arrogance of being "elite". 

 

It's funny, even when Liverpool were in a 'crisis' last season they still ended up finishing inside the top four. For me Klopp is pound for pound the best manager on the planet. When you consider that he won the Bundesliga twice, broke a dynasty and got them to a champions league final and then he went to Liverpool and has finished inside the top four in all of his full seasons, got to two champions league finals, won the champions league, came runners up with the third highest points tally in the history of English football and won their first league title in thirty years with a side which had two regulars who had been in sides that were relegated not long before. In addition to this, his teams are great to watch and he has a decent record of bringing youngsters through.

Edited 22 November 2021 by BenTheFox

[erlee]

3 hours ago, George31 said:

I'm new to this forum, and genuinely staggered at all these comments.

Brendan has a 50% win record from 130 games. He's won the FA cup, got us into Europe 2 seasons running.

He's an elite manager. Weve had a slow start yes, but we've currently got Daniel Amartey in defence, who wouldnt struggle?

In my opinion our squad balance isn't right at the moment - we have too many high earners sat on the bench. If you look at West Ham and Wolverhampton, they have got exceptional morale in the group, this is what we are missing.

I just think it's just going to be a mid table season this one, and in the summer we will hopefully sort out the squad. Vardy shouldn't be a starter in every Premier league game anymore either, he just isn't quick enough now. 

 

lol...Vardy is one of the most hard working players in the team. for 4 years in a  row now.

THe service he get is RUBBISH.  WHo is faster than Vardy in the Team??  

 

other than that -your right. we need to take the players out for pizza every Friday night. Ranieri -style.

Edited 22 November 2021 by erlee

[oxtonfox]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

I feel like we're just down in the dumps at the moment and Brendan lacks the qualities needed to inspire the team.

 

Look at all the top managers in the world... Klopp, Simeone, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Flick, Nagelsmann, Zidane etc.

 

They're all emotional. They get involved. It's infuriating to see Brendan clapping the team along while stood still on the touchline when we're being completely battered. It's like he's watching kids football on a Sunday morning or something.

It could be that Brendan has taken us as far as he can. Something similar happened at Swansea. He moved to Liverpool and got them second, Brendan would say he overachieved but that was it. He was sacked in the following season.

At Celtic, fair enough he hit the heights with the best team in the league but wasn't under pressure week in and week out to raise their standards. Multiple Champions League and Europa cup failures showed how good they were. 

 

At Leicester he has done well, but I think he can't take us any further than what he has done and more importantly I think he believes the same.

[Finnegan]

6 minutes ago, AKCJ said:

I feel like we're just down in the dumps at the moment and Brendan lacks the qualities needed to inspire the team.

 

Look at all the top managers in the world... Klopp, Simeone, Pep, Tuchel, Conte, Mourinho, Pochettino, Flick, Nagelsmann, Zidane etc.

 

They're all emotional. They get involved. It's infuriating to see Brendan clapping the team along while stood still on the touchline when we're being completely battered. It's like he's watching kids football on a Sunday morning or something.

 

This is pretty much it for me. 

 

He's a smart man, he knows football, he mostly understands the game tactically. He makes some stupid decisions when he's floundering looking for answers but by and large he gets it. 

 

But he's also a robot. He's absolutely naff at the human stuff. The squad would run through brick walls for the Pearson/Shakespeare double act, between them they had that balance, they knew how to get more from the squad. 

 

It doesn't feel like Rodgers could get Diego Costa fired up. From the outside looking in, it feels like he can bond with players on a tactical level, on an intellectual level, he can coach them and improve parts of their game and instruct them and that's great. But when their self belief has taken a hit or they're complacent, or having an off day, or whatever else - he's pretty much never managed to reverse that. 

 

It takes months at a time, often with a significant non playing break, for him to stop a slide.

 

Psychology is a massive part of a elite sport. There's players at all levels of English football who have the technical or athletic ability to put a ball in a goal from 30 yards, to play a 40 yard pass, to make an inch perfect slide tackle, to dribble around someone, to run an 11 second 100m. Often what makes a Premier League player is the brain, the ability to do these things under intense pressure and expectation at the highest level. 

 

It's critical you have a coach that can manage that, even if it's not Rodgers himself, SOMEONE in his staff needs to have that relationship with the players and evidently they don't. 

[st albans fox]

43 minutes ago, Matt said:

We became so easy to play against a long, long time ago.

 

We do half of the job for the opposition.

 

They couldn’t be happier for us to have possession, they know we’re no threat and they knew we’ll make a mistake, put us under pressure and we’ll flap even more so.

 

Teams will struggle to have an easier game against anyone else.

 

Even the so called ‘lesser’ teams are tougher to beat than us.

 

The media friendly tag line, motto, phrases, whatever you want to call them of ‘Foxes Never Quit’ or ‘Fearless’ we use (or have in the past) are nothing but ironic or further from the truth in this current moment. Toothless.

 

if teams don’t work hard enough against us then we will beat them (as we saw with United ). We are easy to play against if you’re prepared to work hard 
 

 

12 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

.. Vardy is just as quick as ever, on the ground and in his decision making!!!

   Now if you were looking at integrating Daka more quickly I can understand the need for rotation. 

  Amartey has held his own in the backline, let's not start blaming him for all our problems. 

 As for the squad balance, there are a few disillusioned players sat on our bench wondering what next ill-conceived plan Rodgers will devise which keeps them off the pitch.

Simply not true …..

[Flappit]

Interesting first post in this thread from Liverpool's forum back in 2014. Why does lots of this sound ever so familiar, I wonder...? 

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=317918.0

 

Just to highlight one paragraph... 

So putting aside the frustrations of Liverpool fans that the club seem to have bought poorly in the summer, the defence is looking a mess, tactically they seem naïve and the lack of cutting edge in attack – Rodgers has to do something in order to get results . The club despite all their problems this season are only 4 points from the top four. Rodgers needs to prove that he can be pragmatic again this season, like he was last season and adjust his tactics to get the best out of the squad he has now.

 

 

 

Time For Brendan Rodgers To Be Pragmatic (again)

Last season Brendan Rodgers had little to worry about in terms of scrutiny from the Liverpool fans and the media. Everything looked rosy, with the club competing for the title, young players developing, senior players thriving and whatever questions were being asked of him, he generally had the right answers for most of them.

He was often called ‘pragmatic’ and you can see why given Liverpool were still winning games without Suarez at the beginning of the season, when Sturridge got injured and using various different formations throughout the season.

I was going to say what a difference a year makes, but actually this time last year Liverpool fans were critical of many of the performances of the side and individual players, most notably Gerrard and Sterling. Yet the side was still picking up points despite not being at their best and these two players went on to be key individuals in the second half of the season.

I guess that highlights how form and confidence is important for the majority of players and maybe if Sterling was a new signing last season, he would be getting written off by many as Markovic seems to have been this season. Maybe a little patience and support we could see Markovic look like the exciting talent he has shown for Benfica and his country. Who knows!

But generally last season was a big success for Brendan Rodgers and the club. But you can’t say the same so far this season and having spent heavily due to the sale of Suarez, new signings struggling and results being poor – scrutiny is intense on Rodgers and he is under a lot of pressure.

Since Rodgers took over at Liverpool they have been vulnerable defensively. Rodgers last season blamed individual mistakes as the main issue and spent heavily in the summer to try and solve that with the additions of Lovren and Moreno. However the defence is not any better this season, if anything it is worse and fans are questioning whether Rodgers can actually fix it. Last season Liverpool were scoring so many goals, it made up for the vulnerable issues at the back, as when the opposition did score two or three goals, Liverpool simply scored more – usually.

This season however the attack is looking blunt and I don’t think people believe that all the players that have played in GK and defence in the last three years can all be bad players to be making the large amount of mistakes that they have. In the three years under Rodgers Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren, Johnson, Flanagan, Moreno, Enrique, Reina and Mignolet etc have all made too many errors. But a lot of these players have proven over the years that they can be part of solid defences (Carragher – winning numerous trophies at LFC), Agger (got to Champs League final), Skrtel (partnered Carragher during title challenge under Benitez), Sakho (looks solid for France), Lovren (last season for Southampton) etc. etc. So maybe, just maybe the issues are with the tactics and not the players themselves?

It is hard to argue that the tactics aren’t the issues when Mignolet seems reluctant to come of his line and control his area under any high ball. Rodgers instructs the full backs to both bomb forward and offer the width in attack and we have Gerrard, who is not a defensive minded player really, as the player who is meant to protect the defense. This will leave space and make the centre backs vulnerable. That’s without mentioning the defending at set plays, where the defence looks all over the place. I think Rodgers might have to be pragmatic and adjust his ideal approach for the defence and make it more solid, especially with the attack not bailing them out this season.

This is the main issue that is frustrating Liverpool fans. They all had pretty much accepted that under Rodgers defensively they might not be the most solid team in the league, given the attacking intent of the side. However it looks very obvious that without Sturridge Liverpool lack the cutting edge in attack. The club have clearly lost Suarez but the additions of Lambert and Balotelli, look to have been poor buys and Borini has never looked good enough for a club with the aspirations of Liverpool. This is highlighted when all three of these strikers have failed to score for the club in the league having played over 1000 minutes between them. That’s not just lacking cutting edge, that is not cutting the ‘Dejan (Lovren) Mustard’.

So putting aside the frustrations of Liverpool fans that the club seem to have bought poorly in the summer, the defence is looking a mess, tactically they seem naïve and the lack of cutting edge in attack – Rodgers has to do something in order to get results . The club despite all their problems this season are only 4 points from the top four. Rodgers needs to prove that he can be pragmatic again this season, like he was last season and adjust his tactics to get the best out of the squad he has now.

These are a few ways I think he can go about doing that:

1) Drop Lovren. I know he was the big summer buy defensively, but the truth is he has really struggled in all departments. He constantly been out of position, he has collided with his cb partner for going for headers which weren’t his to go for… He has not won the headers when they are his to win and most importantly he is making too many errors which are costing us goals nearly every game. Take him out of the team, give him a break and maybe when he does get a chance again he looks more like the players he did at Southampton. If ever a player needed to work with Dr Peters – it is him!

2) Play players in form. I am thinking of our best defensive display this season on this issue against Real Madrid, when Kolo Toure was immense, Lucas protected the back four better than Gerrard has all season and we looked far more solid as a result. These two deserved to keep their places in the team after that match and I’d have both starting on the weekend, as we need to pick on form over reputation and I think they will make us more solid defensively.

3) If Sakho is fit, I think he should partner Toure. Toure is a right sided defender, Sakho play on the left. They should complement each other and Lovren / Skrtel have both disappointed this season. Sakho is brilliant for France, he has all the tools to be a top class CB for LFC, he just needs regular games.

4) Change the position of Gerrard. It just seems bizarre to me that with a team struggling for goals we play a player of ours who has scored over 100 goals for us and numerous more assists to his name in the defensive midfield position. He’s a match winner, we need them and he can produce moments that can win us games with a cross, shot, through ball etc. Last season it made sense to play him deeper as we had a great attack without him with Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling all thriving, those three needed quick ball and Gerrard provided it. This season it is different, we are playing our oldest player in a position which exposes his weaknesses, defensively and his aging legs.

Surely it makes much more sense to have him higher up the field with freedom to win us games and little defensive responsibly to save his legs? I’d like to see him either get a free role, with energy around him to do the majority of his running. Like Newcastle did with Shearer, with Bellamy, Dyer, Robert doing this. Or Arsenal did with Bergkamp, having legs and movement around him and allowed his passing to still hurt teams and win games. We should be doing something similar with Gerrard. We have the players to do it as well with Sterling, Lallana, Henderson, Can etc. to do his running for him.

The other option I think is playing Gerrard upfront with a partner. Last season the diamond worked to great effect, allowing Suarez and Sturridge to roam and win us games, with the rest of the side just trying to stop us losing them. Put Gerrard upfront, as he is arguably our best finisher, especially with Sturridge injured, upfront with a license to go where he wants, someone to link up with and I’m sure he will be doing better than Lambert, Balotelli and Borini have shown thus far this season. When Rodgers put Gerrard higher up the field to link with Balotelli a few games ago, we saw Gerrard still had the quality to be a real asset in the opposition half. Let’s have Lucas or Can or Henderson or Allen doing the defensive work in midfield and allow one of our few match winners to be worrying the opposition more higher up the pitch.

5) Stop playing One Upfront. The side has struggled all season with one upfront. Even when Sturridge played in the first two games against Southampton and Manchester City, very few chances were created. Against Spurs Rodgers played two upfront and Sturridge looked much better and it was our best performance of the season as a result. Balotelli doesn’t seem to know how to play upfront on his own. He looks isolated, is static in his movement when we have the ball and as a result our midfield have trouble creating chances for him (saying that when he has had them – he’s missed!). Lambert also doesn’t suit playing upfront on his own as he is quite slow, isn’t very mobile and needs a partner to link up with. Borini can’t play upfront on his own as he struggle to hold the ball up, which is vital in that position. So why is Rodgers still playing with a lone striker? I think it would suit all these three playing with a partner, when they do play.

6) Consider playing Sterling upfront. Our strikers are not scoring. What is worse they don’t look like causing the opposition any problems. We can continue to keep playing them, hoping they will come good, when deep down we know the problem is their quality not confidence. Or we could maybe try something else and play Sterling upfront (maybe with Gerrard) and give the opposition something else to think about. I don’t think many cb’s would fancy marking Sterling given his energy, willingness to run behind a back four and his skill. Gerrard alongside him or in a free role behind, he could thread the passes through to him or link up with Sterling. It surely must be worth a try over seeing more of the static Balotelli or Lambert leading the line for us or the toothless Borini? Sterling did well against Real Madrid in this role and if you give him support in a two, then he could succeed even more in this role. It is clearly not his best position, as that is at the tip of the diamond. But when we have Coutinho or Lallana who can also play that position, then maybe it is worth a try until Sturridge is back fit. Would be nice to see some movement and pace upfront, that’s what defenders fear, as we saw last season.

7) Don’t let the full backs both go forward at the same time. Sure, let the full backs get forward if the ball is down their side of the field, as we need to see an overlap and bodies getting forward. But both at the same time? It really leaves the defence exposed and it would be more solid having the full backs pivot between going forward and staying back. Giving the defence more protection and not leaving us so vulnerable on the counter attack.

8.) Only pass round the back with the keeper when there is time & space. Passing round the back can work, Barcelona have proven that plenty of times over the years. However it can also be costly, when the opposition press it aggressively. I have no problem with passing round the back, when our players have the time and space to do it. I can reluctantly understand doing it when you have a keeper who is very comfortable with his feet and a back four who are the same, doing it under pressure. But we don’t have that and I don’t see the point in passing it round the back until we get in trouble and then hoofing it up the pitch. We might as well hit it long in the first place. I think Rodgers needs to tell the back four and keeper to only do it when the time is right and not every time.

These are a few ways I think we can improve. You might not agree with all of them or most of them, but surely something has to change as what we have been doing isn’t working. All the above suggestions however would have to result in Rodgers being bold and pragmatic. It is what he did last season, I think he’s going to have to look outside of the box this season if he wants to keep the fans and media off his back by getting the side winning more games. At least until he can buy in January or when Sturridge is back to help paper over the cracks.

Below are a couple of formations I would like to see us use against Crystal Palace.

Option 1



Option 2



Whether Rodgers agrees, we’ll find out soon, but if he doesn’t I fear the worst without Sturridge who looks to be out for a further six weeks. Something has to change and it will ultimately be either – the tactics, the players or the manager. I’d like to see us try different tactics and players before we lose faith with this manager, but he has to change it we can’t do it for him. I will continue to support Rodgers, as last season was very special I think it gave him a lot of credit in the bank, but I am finding it hard to see a lot of his reasoning this season and something has to change.[/quote]

 

Edited 22 November 2021 by Flappit

[CosbehFox]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This is pretty much it for me. 

 

He's a smart man, he knows football, he mostly understands the game tactically. He makes some stupid decisions when he's floundering looking for answers but by and large he gets it. 

 

But he's also a robot. He's absolutely naff at the human stuff. The squad would run through brick walls for the Pearson/Shakespeare double act, between them they had that balance, they knew how to get more from the squad. 

 

It doesn't feel like Rodgers could get Diego Costa fired up. From the outside looking in, it feels like he can bond with players on a tactical level, on an intellectual level, he can coach them and improve parts of their game and instruct them and that's great. But when their self belief has taken a hit or they're complacent, or having an off day, or whatever else - he's pretty much never managed to reverse that. 

 

It takes months at a time, often with a significant non playing break, for him to stop a slide.

 

Psychology is a massive part of a elite sport. There's players at all levels of English football who have the technical or athletic ability to put a ball in a goal from 30 yards, to play a 40 yard pass, to make an inch perfect slide tackle, to dribble around someone, to run an 11 second 100m. Often what makes a Premier League player is the brain, the ability to do these things under intense pressure and expectation at the highest level. 

 

It's critical you have a coach that can manage that, even if it's not Rodgers himself, SOMEONE in his staff needs to have that relationship with the players and evidently they don't. 

Superb post. I reckon he’s devoid that side of his management because it was the over emotion of the Liverpool title bid what did them in the end. 
 

Although he used the same trick for the Cup Final as he did for Liverpool’s run in that season. 

[AKCJ]

4 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

This is pretty much it for me. 

 

He's a smart man, he knows football, he mostly understands the game tactically. He makes some stupid decisions when he's floundering looking for answers but by and large he gets it. 

 

But he's also a robot. He's absolutely naff at the human stuff. The squad would run through brick walls for the Pearson/Shakespeare double act, between them they had that balance, they knew how to get more from the squad. 

 

It doesn't feel like Rodgers could get Diego Costa fired up. From the outside looking in, it feels like he can bond with players on a tactical level, on an intellectual level, he can coach them and improve parts of their game and instruct them and that's great. But when their self belief has taken a hit or they're complacent, or having an off day, or whatever else - he's pretty much never managed to reverse that. 

 

It takes months at a time, often with a significant non playing break, for him to stop a slide.

 

Psychology is a massive part of a elite sport. There's players at all levels of English football who have the technical or athletic ability to put a ball in a goal from 30 yards, to play a 40 yard pass, to make an inch perfect slide tackle, to dribble around someone, to run an 11 second 100m. Often what makes a Premier League player is the brain, the ability to do these things under intense pressure and expectation at the highest level. 

 

It's critical you have a coach that can manage that, even if it's not Rodgers himself, SOMEONE in his staff needs to have that relationship with the players and evidently they don't. 

Yep I think he's right up there with the best of them tactically.

 

But he's not got the personality needed to inspire the team and supporters.

 

It's all very Claude Puel at the minute.

[turtmcfly]

12 hours ago, Jimmy said:

you have zero evidence to back up the claim he will turn it around, he never has, he only ever lasts around 3 years and he completion of this season will be 3 and a half years, he's simply run his course with us

 

He only 'lasted' two years at Swansea because Liverpool nabbed him. 

 

I bet you can do Celtic yourself. 

 

[Hales]

I just want Brendan to show a bit of passion! Don't stand there emotionless clapping when we are dreadful. Scream, shout do whatever to rally the team.  The most passion we have ever seen is him kick a water bottle and shout at Dennis Praet!  

 

Don't get me started on his notebook...😆

Edited 22 November 2021 by Hales

[weller54]

11 minutes ago, oxtonfox said:

It could be that Brendan has taken us as far as he can. Something similar happened at Swansea. He moved to Liverpool and got them second, Brendan would say he overachieved but that was it. He was sacked in the following season.

At Celtic, fair enough he hit the heights with the best team in the league but wasn't under pressure week in and week out to raise their standards. Multiple Champions League and Europa cup failures showed how good they were. 

 

At Leicester he has done well, but I think he can't take us any further than what he has done and more importantly I think he believes the same.

Think this is the truth.

With this particular squad we've peaked and are on a downward trajectory...

Aging Vardy, Kasper, Kevin.

Youri clearly wants out.

Fofana here on a short term loan.

Other problems too with Maddison, Perez..

Poor recruitment with Bertrand and Vestergaard..

The list of problems/challenges goes on.

Question is, is Rodgers the man to sort these problems out?

I think it's clear to see...

He isn't.

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, Hales said:

I just want Brendan to show a bit of passion! Don't stand there emotionless clapping when we are dreadful. Scream, shout do whatever to rally the team.  The most passion we have ever seen is him kick a water bottle and shout at Dennis Praet!  

To put it into context, Chelsea were superb on Saturday and yet at about 15 minutes in, Kante put a misplaced pass out into touch when in the final third... Tuchel went NUTS. He screamed at Kante telling him to get his act together and that simply wasn't good enough. Meanwhile in the 40th minute Soumare and Ndidi conspired to put the ball out of touch 2 yards from the touchline and Rodgers simply shrugged his shoulders in disappointment. 

 

I get this point, if his players can't make a basic pass then what can he do about it? But at the same time, it shows you that the elite managers have standards that players can't drop from. Conte at the weekend also turned Spurs from the team with the worst running stats in the league to outrunning Leeds, who were the current highest runners in just 3 games. Again elite level coaching on display there.

[An Away Move]

3 hours ago, George31 said:

I'm new to this forum, and genuinely staggered at all these comments.

Brendan has a 50% win record from 130 games. He's won the FA cup, got us into Europe 2 seasons running.

He's an elite manager. Weve had a slow start yes, but we've currently got Daniel Amartey in defence, who wouldnt struggle?

In my opinion our squad balance isn't right at the moment - we have too many high earners sat on the bench. If you look at West Ham and Wolverhampton, they have got exceptional morale in the group, this is what we are missing.

I just think it's just going to be a mid table season this one, and in the summer we will hopefully sort out the squad. Vardy shouldn't be a starter in every Premier league game anymore either, he just isn't quick enough now. 

I’ve been saying this since pre-season because it was clear then. It’s really stupid playing him on his own up front and IMO is a major factor why we are constantly recycling the ball. We’re far more dangerous with the pace of Daka up front or starting with two strikers - but when we do this Rodgers sacrifices Lookman and Barnes. 

[yorkie1999]

11 minutes ago, Hales said:

I just want Brendan to show a bit of passion! Don't stand there emotionless clapping when we are dreadful. Scream, shout do whatever to rally the team.  The most passion we have ever seen is him kick a water bottle and shout at Dennis Praet!  

 

Don't get me started on his notebook...😆

Should have nabbed him when there was a sniff of him leaving Rangers.

 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11677/12473951/steven-gerrard-on-aston-villa-victory-in-first-game-winning-is-my-medicine-for-what-i-miss-from-playing-career

Edited 22 November 2021 by yorkie1999

[Hales]

2 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

To put it into context, Chelsea were superb on Saturday and yet at about 15 minutes in, Kante put a misplaced pass out into touch when in the final third... Tuchel went NUTS. He screamed at Kante telling him to get his act together and that simply wasn't good enough. Meanwhile in the 40th minute Soumare and Ndidi conspired to put the ball out of touch 2 yards from the touchline and Rodgers simply shrugged his shoulders in disappointment. 

 

I get this point, if his players can't make a basic pass then what can he do about it? But at the same time, it shows you that the elite managers have standards that players can't drop from. Conte at the weekend also turned Spurs from the team with the worst running stats in the league to outrunning Leeds, who were the current highest runners in just 3 games. Again elite level coaching on display there.

Exactly this!  I'm not saying I want them to fear him but play for your position and know you are not undroppable.  If the passion shows from the top it is infectious.  I can't stand the clapping and gentle cheering when we are playing appallingly.  I know he doesn't like to berate players in public and I guess its not him but show something! I like Brendan a lot but things are not right at the moment and I think he needs to reflect on himself.

[Cadno'r Cymoedd]

14 minutes ago, Flappit said:

Interesting first post in this thread from Liverpool's forum back in 2014. Why does lots of this sound ever so familiar, I wonder...? 

https://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=317918.0

 

Just to highlight one paragraph... 

So putting aside the frustrations of Liverpool fans that the club seem to have bought poorly in the summer, the defence is looking a mess, tactically they seem naïve and the lack of cutting edge in attack – Rodgers has to do something in order to get results . The club despite all their problems this season are only 4 points from the top four. Rodgers needs to prove that he can be pragmatic again this season, like he was last season and adjust his tactics to get the best out of the squad he has now.

 

 

 

Time For Brendan Rodgers To Be Pragmatic (again)

Last season Brendan Rodgers had little to worry about in terms of scrutiny from the Liverpool fans and the media. Everything looked rosy, with the club competing for the title, young players developing, senior players thriving and whatever questions were being asked of him, he generally had the right answers for most of them.

He was often called ‘pragmatic’ and you can see why given Liverpool were still winning games without Suarez at the beginning of the season, when Sturridge got injured and using various different formations throughout the season.

I was going to say what a difference a year makes, but actually this time last year Liverpool fans were critical of many of the performances of the side and individual players, most notably Gerrard and Sterling. Yet the side was still picking up points despite not being at their best and these two players went on to be key individuals in the second half of the season.

I guess that highlights how form and confidence is important for the majority of players and maybe if Sterling was a new signing last season, he would be getting written off by many as Markovic seems to have been this season. Maybe a little patience and support we could see Markovic look like the exciting talent he has shown for Benfica and his country. Who knows!

But generally last season was a big success for Brendan Rodgers and the club. But you can’t say the same so far this season and having spent heavily due to the sale of Suarez, new signings struggling and results being poor – scrutiny is intense on Rodgers and he is under a lot of pressure.

Since Rodgers took over at Liverpool they have been vulnerable defensively. Rodgers last season blamed individual mistakes as the main issue and spent heavily in the summer to try and solve that with the additions of Lovren and Moreno. However the defence is not any better this season, if anything it is worse and fans are questioning whether Rodgers can actually fix it. Last season Liverpool were scoring so many goals, it made up for the vulnerable issues at the back, as when the opposition did score two or three goals, Liverpool simply scored more – usually.

This season however the attack is looking blunt and I don’t think people believe that all the players that have played in GK and defence in the last three years can all be bad players to be making the large amount of mistakes that they have. In the three years under Rodgers Carragher, Agger, Skrtel, Sakho, Lovren, Johnson, Flanagan, Moreno, Enrique, Reina and Mignolet etc have all made too many errors. But a lot of these players have proven over the years that they can be part of solid defences (Carragher – winning numerous trophies at LFC), Agger (got to Champs League final), Skrtel (partnered Carragher during title challenge under Benitez), Sakho (looks solid for France), Lovren (last season for Southampton) etc. etc. So maybe, just maybe the issues are with the tactics and not the players themselves?

It is hard to argue that the tactics aren’t the issues when Mignolet seems reluctant to come of his line and control his area under any high ball. Rodgers instructs the full backs to both bomb forward and offer the width in attack and we have Gerrard, who is not a defensive minded player really, as the player who is meant to protect the defense. This will leave space and make the centre backs vulnerable. That’s without mentioning the defending at set plays, where the defence looks all over the place. I think Rodgers might have to be pragmatic and adjust his ideal approach for the defence and make it more solid, especially with the attack not bailing them out this season.

This is the main issue that is frustrating Liverpool fans. They all had pretty much accepted that under Rodgers defensively they might not be the most solid team in the league, given the attacking intent of the side. However it looks very obvious that without Sturridge Liverpool lack the cutting edge in attack. The club have clearly lost Suarez but the additions of Lambert and Balotelli, look to have been poor buys and Borini has never looked good enough for a club with the aspirations of Liverpool. This is highlighted when all three of these strikers have failed to score for the club in the league having played over 1000 minutes between them. That’s not just lacking cutting edge, that is not cutting the ‘Dejan (Lovren) Mustard’.

So putting aside the frustrations of Liverpool fans that the club seem to have bought poorly in the summer, the defence is looking a mess, tactically they seem naïve and the lack of cutting edge in attack – Rodgers has to do something in order to get results . The club despite all their problems this season are only 4 points from the top four. Rodgers needs to prove that he can be pragmatic again this season, like he was last season and adjust his tactics to get the best out of the squad he has now.

These are a few ways I think he can go about doing that:

1) Drop Lovren. I know he was the big summer buy defensively, but the truth is he has really struggled in all departments. He constantly been out of position, he has collided with his cb partner for going for headers which weren’t his to go for… He has not won the headers when they are his to win and most importantly he is making too many errors which are costing us goals nearly every game. Take him out of the team, give him a break and maybe when he does get a chance again he looks more like the players he did at Southampton. If ever a player needed to work with Dr Peters – it is him!

2) Play players in form. I am thinking of our best defensive display this season on this issue against Real Madrid, when Kolo Toure was immense, Lucas protected the back four better than Gerrard has all season and we looked far more solid as a result. These two deserved to keep their places in the team after that match and I’d have both starting on the weekend, as we need to pick on form over reputation and I think they will make us more solid defensively.

3) If Sakho is fit, I think he should partner Toure. Toure is a right sided defender, Sakho play on the left. They should complement each other and Lovren / Skrtel have both disappointed this season. Sakho is brilliant for France, he has all the tools to be a top class CB for LFC, he just needs regular games.

4) Change the position of Gerrard. It just seems bizarre to me that with a team struggling for goals we play a player of ours who has scored over 100 goals for us and numerous more assists to his name in the defensive midfield position. He’s a match winner, we need them and he can produce moments that can win us games with a cross, shot, through ball etc. Last season it made sense to play him deeper as we had a great attack without him with Suarez, Sturridge and Sterling all thriving, those three needed quick ball and Gerrard provided it. This season it is different, we are playing our oldest player in a position which exposes his weaknesses, defensively and his aging legs.

Surely it makes much more sense to have him higher up the field with freedom to win us games and little defensive responsibly to save his legs? I’d like to see him either get a free role, with energy around him to do the majority of his running. Like Newcastle did with Shearer, with Bellamy, Dyer, Robert doing this. Or Arsenal did with Bergkamp, having legs and movement around him and allowed his passing to still hurt teams and win games. We should be doing something similar with Gerrard. We have the players to do it as well with Sterling, Lallana, Henderson, Can etc. to do his running for him.

The other option I think is playing Gerrard upfront with a partner. Last season the diamond worked to great effect, allowing Suarez and Sturridge to roam and win us games, with the rest of the side just trying to stop us losing them. Put Gerrard upfront, as he is arguably our best finisher, especially with Sturridge injured, upfront with a license to go where he wants, someone to link up with and I’m sure he will be doing better than Lambert, Balotelli and Borini have shown thus far this season. When Rodgers put Gerrard higher up the field to link with Balotelli a few games ago, we saw Gerrard still had the quality to be a real asset in the opposition half. Let’s have Lucas or Can or Henderson or Allen doing the defensive work in midfield and allow one of our few match winners to be worrying the opposition more higher up the pitch.

5) Stop playing One Upfront. The side has struggled all season with one upfront. Even when Sturridge played in the first two games against Southampton and Manchester City, very few chances were created. Against Spurs Rodgers played two upfront and Sturridge looked much better and it was our best performance of the season as a result. Balotelli doesn’t seem to know how to play upfront on his own. He looks isolated, is static in his movement when we have the ball and as a result our midfield have trouble creating chances for him (saying that when he has had them – he’s missed!). Lambert also doesn’t suit playing upfront on his own as he is quite slow, isn’t very mobile and needs a partner to link up with. Borini can’t play upfront on his own as he struggle to hold the ball up, which is vital in that position. So why is Rodgers still playing with a lone striker? I think it would suit all these three playing with a partner, when they do play.

6) Consider playing Sterling upfront. Our strikers are not scoring. What is worse they don’t look like causing the opposition any problems. We can continue to keep playing them, hoping they will come good, when deep down we know the problem is their quality not confidence. Or we could maybe try something else and play Sterling upfront (maybe with Gerrard) and give the opposition something else to think about. I don’t think many cb’s would fancy marking Sterling given his energy, willingness to run behind a back four and his skill. Gerrard alongside him or in a free role behind, he could thread the passes through to him or link up with Sterling. It surely must be worth a try over seeing more of the static Balotelli or Lambert leading the line for us or the toothless Borini? Sterling did well against Real Madrid in this role and if you give him support in a two, then he could succeed even more in this role. It is clearly not his best position, as that is at the tip of the diamond. But when we have Coutinho or Lallana who can also play that position, then maybe it is worth a try until Sturridge is back fit. Would be nice to see some movement and pace upfront, that’s what defenders fear, as we saw last season.

7) Don’t let the full backs both go forward at the same time. Sure, let the full backs get forward if the ball is down their side of the field, as we need to see an overlap and bodies getting forward. But both at the same time? It really leaves the defence exposed and it would be more solid having the full backs pivot between going forward and staying back. Giving the defence more protection and not leaving us so vulnerable on the counter attack.

8.) Only pass round the back with the keeper when there is time & space. Passing round the back can work, Barcelona have proven that plenty of times over the years. However it can also be costly, when the opposition press it aggressively. I have no problem with passing round the back, when our players have the time and space to do it. I can reluctantly understand doing it when you have a keeper who is very comfortable with his feet and a back four who are the same, doing it under pressure. But we don’t have that and I don’t see the point in passing it round the back until we get in trouble and then hoofing it up the pitch. We might as well hit it long in the first place. I think Rodgers needs to tell the back four and keeper to only do it when the time is right and not every time.

These are a few ways I think we can improve. You might not agree with all of them or most of them, but surely something has to change as what we have been doing isn’t working. All the above suggestions however would have to result in Rodgers being bold and pragmatic. It is what he did last season, I think he’s going to have to look outside of the box this season if he wants to keep the fans and media off his back by getting the side winning more games. At least until he can buy in January or when Sturridge is back to help paper over the cracks.

Below are a couple of formations I would like to see us use against Crystal Palace.

Option 1



Option 2



Whether Rodgers agrees, we’ll find out soon, but if he doesn’t I fear the worst without Sturridge who looks to be out for a further six weeks. Something has to change and it will ultimately be either – the tactics, the players or the manager. I’d like to see us try different tactics and players before we lose faith with this manager, but he has to change it we can’t do it for him. I will continue to support Rodgers, as last season was very special I think it gave him a lot of credit in the bank, but I am finding it hard to see a lot of his reasoning this season and something has to change.[/quote]

 

A really worth while read although it's a very long post with the inclusion of the Liverpool specific suggested fixes. But as you say, before that, it's like reading exactly what is happening here. And that paragraph does indeed highlight it perfectly. Frighteningly so in fact.