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Fox92

Brendan Rodgers

By Fox92, in Leicester City Forum

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ARM1968

ARM1968

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, josh said:

By that logic I assume we also couldn't underachieve, only finish where we deserve?

 

You can deserve something but still overachieve, as we did when we won the league.

I said pretty much, no?  We should have finished in the CL spots two seasons running but failed due to horrific form under the guidance of an ‘elite’ manager. We won the league by 10 clear points. How could that be seen as over achieving?  We were simply the best team in the league that season. 

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norwichfox

norwichfox

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, TrentFox said:

337 pages. WTF?!? If Kim Jong Un was in charge we couldn’t have written more!!! Jeez …… surely to God everything that can be said has now been said??? 😳

Still waiting for many "goodbye's" to be said...

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An Sionnach

An Sionnach

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, TrentFox said:

337 pages. WTF?!? If Kim Jong Un was in charge we couldn’t have written more!!! Jeez …… surely to God everything that can be said has now been said??? 😳

A couple of wins and it will go stone  dead ( until the next defeat that is).

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Vazman

Vazman

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TrentFox said:

337 pages. WTF?!? If Kim Jong Un was in charge we couldn’t have written more!!! Jeez …… surely to God everything that can be said has now been said??? 😳

I've enjoyed reading this thread, if your not happy, dont read it, or leave a comment, its optional you know 

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gerblod

gerblod

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't see it as over achieving simply based on finances because we have proven several times that the sheer hard work we have put in to our recruitment model allows us to compete with the big 6 within reason. That's not over achieving, it's maximising our ability. It also isn't a level playing field every season, the momentum and position we have built has made it easier to then maintain it than if we had to try and compete with those clubs from scratch every year.

 

There is a serious amount of money  wasted in this game and those with the most are often the guiltliest, it's really not that outrageous to take advantage when some of the clubs start to get things really wrong and we're on the up. 

 

I class over achievement in smaller time periods, like when Peter Taylor had up top 4 for months but it was a mix of luck and witch craft. I don't view us going 2.5 years showing top 4 form for the most part and recovering from a slump at the end of the 2019/20 season. Regrouping and changing tactics and systems to go on and beat every big 6 side at least once in 2020/21. That isn't over achieving, it's the capabilities of a team and manager that at that point were receptive to excelling and succeeding. Not to mention delivering an FA Cup, delivering one of the most impressive performances in the QF vs Man Utd that I've seen from a side that you could never question it as them over achieving. 

 

It's a mentality thing as well, we would not have done what we've done in 15/16 and then the Rodgers years if our owners, directors, coaches and players all believed it wasn't possible to deliver what we've done. The ambition is being driven collectively and as soon as excuses are made then it's the end of the road which this is looking close to being now. Shocking turn of events for a man who doesn't have the bravery to take responsibility under pressure.

Just so.

 

Atalanta show what can be done with a limited fan base and budget which are so in comparison to the Milans and Juve. That they can transfer out players of Castagne's ability is indicative of a soundly structured club.

 

However it requires superlative scouting, transfer dealing, tactical coaching, book-balancing and all those other functions essential to 'over-achieving' in ones particular league.

 

Professional football is hugely unprofessional - hugely wasteful of players and money, and too often the plaything of owners who are themselves either clueless about football or so fortuitously rich that they're able to throw enough money at their clubs so that it works. Now we also have the leech model of football ownership - where the Glazers are using United's fanbase as a cash cow to supplement their own wealth.

 

But looking away from that - football allows itself to indulge in the worst sentimentality. How Lampard, Rooney and Sjolskaer (and countless others) have been allowed to take on management based on their erstwhile playing ability, is the very antithesis of good business judgement.

 

At least, Vichai had the ability to build up a business and brought that expertise into the continued development of the City structures which are 'concrete' in nature.

 

This points to his and Top's appreciation of the long-term and long-view. They didn't allow sentimentality to prolong Claudio's reign - nor Shakes' or Puel's. They've created an infrastructure which will support the football side. I suspect Top will not tolerate the disparity between the superb edifices he and his father have developed and mediocre football returns. The team will be expected to reciprocate. I don't believe Vichai would have accepted second best.

I believe too that Top is aware of the easily broken loyalty of managers and players and his own need to stem the losses produced by a lack of competitiveness and 

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Manwell Pablo

Manwell Pablo

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

Was winning the league overachieving?  No. We won it on merit because we had 10 more points than any other team at the end. 
 

Finishing 5th two years running when we were in the top four both seasons until the last game wasn’t overachieving, it was underachieving. It was there to be had, we let it slip both seasons. 
 

Was winning the FA Cup overachieving?  Nope, we finished the game 1-0 up. Whatever the circumstances, that was the result and we won it. 
 

I could go on - I usually do. What I am saying is that we are not over achieving. That suggests fluke or luck or - in Brendan’s mind - the influence of an utterly brilliant manager. If he was THAT good we would have secured CL football 2 seasons running. 

The mere fact that he used that word is diabolical on so many levels. It almost excuses the shit performances whilst adding a little sparkle to the wee man himself. He’s supposed to be a top notch man manager. Well in that one sentence he basically pulled the rug from beneath every player and every achievement. Utterly bonkers. 

 


I don’t think you quite grasp the concept of over achievement unfortunately.

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Stinkenzo

Stinkenzo

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, ARM1968 said:

I said pretty much, no?  We should have finished in the CL spots two seasons running but failed due to horrific form under the guidance of an ‘elite’ manager. We won the league by 10 clear points. How could that be seen as over achieving?  We were simply the best team in the league that season. 

Did we meet your expectations in 15/16?

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Charl91

Charl91

Posted
Posted
Just now, ARM1968 said:

We’re we not the best team in the league then?

Seems by your logic that no-one can ever over or under achieve, as everyone finishes exactly where they should do.

 

We performed the best that season. Did we have the "strongest" team, player for player? No, other teams under-performed, and we performed out of our skin.

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Manwell Pablo

Manwell Pablo

Posted
Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, ARM1968 said:

Patronising. I like it. Could you explain it for me please?


It’s a club performing better than expected, very little to do with whether it was on merit or by luck.

 

To use the title winning season as one of many examples I could do, ignoring all the historical points you could make a team with a bottom half budget and a first xi made up of players who cost less than two or three players in some other teams, managed by a man who barely has a major trophy to his name is certainly over achieving by winning the league at a canter.

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deep blue

deep blue

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Manwell Pablo said:


It’s a club performing better than expected, very little to do with whether it was on merit or by luck.

 

To use the title winning season as one of many examples I could do, ignoring all the historical points you could make a team with a bottom half budget and a first xi made up of players who cost less than two or three players in some other teams, managed by a man who barely has a major trophy to his name is certainly over achieving by winning the league at a canter.

That's because the expectation of many in 2015-2016 was ill-judged.  It didn't take into account the performance during the run-in to the previous season or the fact that performance at the end of a season usually runs forward into the next season; or the pointers that Mahrez and Vardy were primed to explode on the scene; or the gem that we unearthed in Kante; or the excellence of the signings such as Fuchs and others; or the fact that some of the giants of the Prem were going to suffer a dip in form; or the fact that it's all about the performance of the team not the individuals or their price tags; etc.

 

The thing is, one man's expectation is another man's pipedream, and since "expectation" is a very personal feeling, then the term "overperform" similarly defies objective definition.

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dmayne7

dmayne7

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Enjoyed the reception he got at the end of he game as he applauded the fans. 

I think that was his way of apologising/getting fans back on side after his comments at the weekend. He knew that didn't go down well as you don't see him first pumping and fired up like that.

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Dames

Dames

Posted
Posted

Bit iffy in my book that as soon as the Man Utd job is off the table he picks a team that isn’t solely based on containing the opposition and even resisting the switch to a back 3/5 when Evans was injured. 
 

Hopefully he’s over whatever’s been bugging him and he and the team can now push on. 

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StanSP

StanSP

Posted
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1 hour ago, Dames said:

Bit iffy in my book that as soon as the Man Utd job is off the table he picks a team that isn’t solely based on containing the opposition and even resisting the switch to a back 3/5 when Evans was injured. 
 

Hopefully he’s over whatever’s been bugging him and he and the team can now push on. 

Huh? 

 

Yesterday has nothing to do with links to Man Utd lol

 

Reaching a bit. Not like the first time we've gone to a back 4.

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