Brendan Rodgers

[foxile5]

7 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

I don’t want to hear about injuries because I blame Rodgers for many of them. Just like when if a manager keeps his squad fit and available, he takes the plaudits 

The buck rests with the manager. Especially when he's very well repaid for his troubles. 

 

If this team were showing grit and b endeavour Rodgers would rightly be viewed as running a right ship. We've become weak and compliant; that's his issue to own. 

[filbertway]

14 hours ago, st albans fox said:

You do realise that they made three changes at half time ?

it became a different game 

 

we were just about managing it before cags hammy 

Ohhh noooo...not su-su-su-substitutions!!!. So it stopped being a youth team and became a 2nd string team. We were fine till he changed formation and then made the last half hour defence v attack. 

[coolhandfox]

22 minutes ago, filbertway said:

Ohhh noooo...not su-su-su-substitutions!!!. So it stopped being a youth team and became a 2nd string team. We were fine till he changed formation and then made the last half hour defence v attack. 

You do realise their starting 11 and subs , cost 220m.

 

Ours cost less

Edited 24 December 2021 by coolhandfox

[NasPb]

Rodgers stubbornness will be his downfall. Can't keep up like this. Also his tactical naivety at times, especially regarding changes lately. Instead of going for the jugular against Liverpool he took kdh off which just invited pressure. If he were just a tiny bit more pragmatic both in this sense and formation wise we'd be much better. Look at kelechi. The perfect case. Been mistreated thus year. And don't tell me it's down to system, we have players to play a 41212 but we barely do. He can play as a 10/9.5 as well. Rodgers sticks by his book too much.. Not adventurous enough. And the mentality he has installed is negative and weak when things aren't the best. Though it's not always like that ie fa cup win but still it's understood 

[smudgerfox]

8 hours ago, moore_94 said:

Our league season so far - 16 games and 22 points - 1.375 points per game - 52 points over 38 games - 12th, 11th, 10th in previous seasons

 

Our last 5 league games - 7 points - 1.4 points per game - 53 points over 38 games

 

Our last 10 league games - 15 points - 1.5 points per game - 57 points over 38 games

 

Unless you are going to start looking at like 3 game periods as "form", we have never been in relegation form in the league.

 

We haven't been lower than 13th this season.

Very good data but is it the point? Perhaps I should have said that our defensive “form” is relegation form. We also need to factor in the annual collapse of form in the second half of the season. It would take a lot to get us relegated I admit but aside which routinely concedes two goals a game is a team which is playing with fire. 

[volpeazzurro]

8 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

No I think he's been horribly mismanaged this season but I have to concede that the best we've seen of Kelechi was last season and that was down to Brendan. Albeit it was a forced change

The only way I can see that it was down to Brendan is that he was forced to play him. Other than that Brendan has done nothing but stagnate Iheanacho's career. He's had ample opportunity to play him this season but hasn't, preferring instead the services of the underwhelming Perez or Lookman, both of whom appears to be 'Rodger's men'. How he manages to choose either above last seasons top scorer is anyone's guess, had Iheanacho started the season and looked out of sorts it might be understandable but he didn't even get a sniff.

[adam95581]

7 hours ago, J. James said:

Sorry,  it wasn't "down to Brendon" at all, you say so yourself, it was a forced change and the lad took his opportunity with aplomb and still the pig headed Rodgers can't admit he's wrong and play him!

He must have the patience of a saint.

 

His treatment this season has been shocking, like textbook "how to demotivate and uninspire" he WILL leave (if Rodgers doesn't go first) and he WILL score goals for someone else.

 

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid. You can’t claim in this post that the good stuff isn’t down to Rodgers (e.g. Kels playing well last season) and then in your earlier post that the bad stuff is down to him (e.g. our defending is systemic not due to missing players)
 

Also, on Nacho, who do you propose taking out of the team to fit him in? Genuinely - Maddison is our most in form player, Vardy is scoring just as regularly as ever and Daka is contributing with G+As.
 

Our problem isn’t at that end of the field. We’ve had no consistency in the back 4 (or 3) and those that have played have dipped in and out of form and fitness. No excuses here though, Rodgers should be able to find a solution to this given how much he is being paid. He managed to do it at the start of last season when he used Mendy really effectively…I wonder if he is regretting not having him at his disposal now. 

 

[foxfanazer]

10 minutes ago, adam95581 said:

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid. You can’t claim in this post that the good stuff isn’t down to Rodgers (e.g. Kels playing well last season) and then in your earlier post that the bad stuff is down to him (e.g. our defending is systemic not due to missing players)
 

Also, on Nacho, who do you propose taking out of the team to fit him in? Genuinely - Maddison is our most in form player, Vardy is scoring just as regularly as ever and Daka is contributing with G+As.
 

Our problem isn’t at that end of the field. We’ve had no consistency in the back 4 (or 3) and those that have played have dipped in and out of form and fitness. No excuses here though, Rodgers should be able to find a solution to this given how much he is being paid. He managed to do it at the start of last season when he used Mendy really effectively…I wonder if he is regretting not having him at his disposal now. 

 

To be fair Maddison has only recently hit form and was playing like shit for months so he could've and should've played then.

 

You're right about crediting Rodgers where its warranted though. I want him gone asap but I also recognise some of the good he's done (the FA cup win mainly)

[Ric Flair]

9 hours ago, Deeg67 said:

When we get a new manager in, bring back Praet and I think a three of he, KDH and Maddison can be pretty effective in covering the loss of Tielemans.  Praet and KDH are both good on the ball, full of running, and prone to making strafing runs into the opposing box.  Considering how unlikely it is that a club in our position could find someone to truly replace Youri, that might be the best course, with spending the available cash elsewhere.

 

Of course none of this is possible unless we cut the rip cord with Rodgers.  Which is going to require Top to eat a lot of money.

If we want to play the diamond long term, that would work. Praet's energy covering the half right and KDH half left with Ndidi or Soumare sitting and Maddison at the top.

[deep blue]

8 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

You do realise their starting 11 and subs , cost 220m.

 

Ours cost less

And?

 

In 2015-16 our team cost £20 mil and Man City's £250 mil, and we still humiliated them.  Should we start any game against the likes of Liverpool etc and give up before we start because their squad cost more money? 

[gerblod]

19 hours ago, Matt said:

He needs us to succeed in turn to make himself succeed and be a success to get a big job for his

precious ego.

 

...he can't find another way of playing or grind result out, which means he'll never shake the bottlejob tag and he'll never get a crack in a big job.

 

19 hours ago, CrispinLA in Texas said:

If that tackle on Ricardo had happened to a Liverpool player, damn sure Klopp would have been fuming running to the 4th official waving his arms around in disgust calling for a red.

The Leicester players should have stopped and all gathered around Ricardo and the Ref, same with the Albrighton challenge and Luke's getting a elbow in his face, but we haven't got a tough leader on the pitch. Brendan seemingly showing no emotion when the tackle happened is quite the opposite to Klopp, which to someone watching shows that he is more protective to his players in turn his players make a right fuss if any of their teammates gets a nasty foul.

Great managers build winning mentalities into their teams. They imbue a sense of aggressive pride into their players. I'll use a quote by Frankie W. when he flicked a ball over Johnny Giles head in a match against Revie's Leeds. Giles sidled up to him and, according to Frank, said, "If you ever take the piss out of me or Leeds United again, I'll break your legs".

We look at Fergie, Wenger, Klopp and Guardiola and see their teams with a terrific élan and self-belief. Yet there's no ego, other than that directed towards establishing their teams as a reflection of the manager's ability to mould a great team. I suspect ego takes a back seat to pride in achievement.

Rodgers is not going to do better than City. Top saved his career. Newcastle haven't even come calling and there's a well-funded opportunity (admittedly long-term) to make a name for oneself.

He needs to focus on building a resilient team. When they're confident they have the talent to rip any team apart, but too often they are slow to start, hesitant and bemused as to how to initiate attacks. 

I read in a post on FT a statement by a member that the players were upset by his tactics. I think it was Castagne who had stated this while on international duty. It's easy to single out individual players to blame for defeat, yet, if they aren't comfortable with his leadership then, as on Wednesday, they're going to be vulnerable if they have no confidence in his decision making.

Castagne is one of our more dependable players, but his contributions have lately been slated by some on here. Could it be that he's become disenchanted by Rodgers' approach?

The injuries have affected the team, but it can still pull together fantastic performances. That old adage of attack being the best form of defence is so relevant here. Recalling Bloomfield's side, the summation of that vastly talented side was that they could beat anyone on their day. The same is true of this City side. But the Club has changed into something more impressive - now we need a team and manager to reflect that. I'd hope that BR might learn from his errors and become the figurehead we all would want him to be.

 

 

 

 

[gerblod]

1 hour ago, foxfanazer said:

To be fair Maddison has only recently hit form and was playing like shit for months so he could've and should've played then.

You seem to forget the very severe hip problem he was playing through for months. Hardly being fair, are you?

Edited 24 December 2021 by gerblod
Supplemental comment.

[foxfanazer]

38 minutes ago, gerblod said:

You seem to forget the very severe hip problem he was playing through for months. Hardly being fair, are you?

Shouldn't have been playing then should he? Just further reinforces the point that Iheanacho should've had more game time

Edited 24 December 2021 by foxfanazer

[Matt]

56 minutes ago, gerblod said:

You seem to forget the very severe hip problem he was playing through for months. Hardly being fair, are you?

 

21 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

Shouldn't have been playing then should he? Just further reinforces the point that Iheanacho should've had more game time

Credit to Maddison, he's improved, massively, a looking somewhere back to his best.

 

I'm with @foxfanazer here though;

1) Maddison admits he's struggling, has the discussion with the manager.

2) Rodgers realises he's struggling - It was clear to see to everyone, pull Maddison to one side and has the discussion.

3) It's both their faults.

 

I understand players want to play but the whole situation was no good for anyone.

 

There are no real excuses for the situation we were seeing, there were other options and I see no value from any side of the argument for persistently playing a playing struggling with injury.

 

Edited 24 December 2021 by Matt

[coolhandfox]

3 hours ago, deep blue said:

And?

 

In 2015-16 our team cost £20 mil and Man City's £250 mil, and we still humiliated them.  Should we start any game against the likes of Liverpool etc and give up before we start because their squad cost more money? 

Is is not an inferiority complex, its about having perspective. 

 

We can always compete but it not always going to go our way!

 

Why have Man City won the title  3 of the last 4 season? 

 

 

 

Edited 24 December 2021 by coolhandfox

[smudgerfox]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

 

Credit to Maddison, he's improved, massively, a looking somewhere back to his best.

 

I'm with @foxfanazer here though;

1) Maddison admits he's struggling, has the discussion with the manager.

2) Rodgers realises he's struggling - It was clear to see to everyone, pull Maddison to one side and has the discussion.

3) It's both their faults.

 

I understand players want to play but the whole situation was no good for anyone.

 

There are no real excuses for the situation we were seeing, there were other options and I see no value from any side of the argument for persistently playing a playing struggling with injury.

 

Although BR says he likes a small squad he effectively reduces the squad further by “freezing out” players periodically. This means they don’t get any game time and effectively when they get a chance it’s in an emergency which leaves them rusty and over exposed. Take Hamza. What possible use is he now Soumare has been signed as back up to Wilf? But let’s say Soumare gets injured while NDidi is at Africa Cup - suddenly Hamza is a starter without kicking a ball in anger for months. Kelechi is in the same position… other teams keep players fresher by little rotations and canny subs - BR has a set way of playing - finds the 11 that suits it best then plays them till they drop. 

[Duquesne Whistle]

5 minutes ago, smudgerfox said:

But let’s say Soumare gets injured while NDidi is at Africa Cup - suddenly Hamza is a starter without kicking a ball in anger for months. Kelechi is in the same position… other teams keep players fresher by little rotations and canny subs - BR has a set way of playing - finds the 11 that suits it best then plays them till they drop. 

 

He's not really made the best job of that part. It's obvious the way he wants to play, we just don't have, and haven't signed, the correct players to do it. His folly was in continuing to play that way once it was clear we really couldn't. That's really what got us unto this rut.

He obviously hasn't been helped by injuries but he should have found a way to adapt. So far, I don't think he has.

[sacreblueits442]

2 hours ago, gerblod said:

 

Great managers build winning mentalities into their teams. They imbue a sense of aggressive pride into their players. I'll use a quote by Frankie W. when he flicked a ball over Johnny Giles head in a match against Revie's Leeds. Giles sidled up to him and, according to Frank, said, "If you ever take the piss out of me or Leeds United again, I'll break your legs".

We look at Fergie, Wenger, Klopp and Guardiola and see their teams with a terrific élan and self-belief. Yet there's no ego, other than that directed towards establishing their teams as a reflection of the manager's ability to mould a great team. I suspect ego takes a back seat to pride in achievement.

Rodgers is not going to do better than City. Top saved his career. Newcastle haven't even come calling and there's a well-funded opportunity (admittedly long-term) to make a name for oneself.

He needs to focus on building a resilient team. When they're confident they have the talent to rip any team apart, but too often they are slow to start, hesitant and bemused as to how to initiate attacks. 

I read in a post on FT a statement by a member that the players were upset by his tactics. I think it was Castagne who had stated this while on international duty. It's easy to single out individual players to blame for defeat, yet, if they aren't comfortable with his leadership then, as on Wednesday, they're going to be vulnerable if they have no confidence in his decision making.

Castagne is one of our more dependable players, but his contributions have lately been slated by some on here. Could it be that he's become disenchanted by Rodgers' approach?

The injuries have affected the team, but it can still pull together fantastic performances. That old adage of attack being the best form of defence is so relevant here. Recalling Bloomfield's side, the summation of that vastly talented side was that they could beat anyone on their day. The same is true of this City side. But the Club has changed into something more impressive - now we need a team and manager to reflect that. I'd hope that BR might learn from his errors and become the figurehead we all would want him to be.

 

 

 

 

....I still believe that he is missing something from his tool box, and will struggle to to create the team that he envisage!!!

  Like Taylor and Clough he needs to balance his shortfalls, but first he needs to recognise that after all these years of continually coming up short, he is not getting the most out of opportunities afforded to him.

  Getting to the last 32 in Europe despite many trips says you are not learning, even if you come back stronger the next season. It is not therefore down to the players he has at his disposal, he just cannot handle foreign Coaches and there approach to the way the game is played.

  He is very much like Pearson in his approach to game management and it was big surprise when we changed in our last Championship season to a more positive high tempo game. It seemed that it was a dress rehearsal for our title winning season in the Premier League, the belief in both seasons was endemic, we turned up did the job and then set up for the next game, no fuss, no bother.

  The transition to high tempo high press must have been a collaborative decision, but who bought it to the table, would be the better question. Certainly think it would have been  Shakey who came up with it and Rodgers needs someone to balance his tendency to concede the space to the opposition, when put under pressure, and inbue a certain mentality where the players   understand there is a possibility they could lose, but it is not going to happen today...

[Duquesne Whistle]

1 hour ago, coolhandfox said:

Is is not an inferiority complex, its about having prospective.

 

[Duquesne Whistle]

15 hours ago, smudgerfox said:

We’ve improved at defending set pieces but boy did that take a long tome to fix.

 

 

[FoxyPalace.com]

Brendan stop messing around with daft subs at silly times, you’d be better off points wise son. It’s hard to watch as we all knew against Liverpool what the outcome would be ! 

[J. James]

7 hours ago, adam95581 said:

You can’t have it both ways I’m afraid. You can’t claim in this post that the good stuff isn’t down to Rodgers (e.g. Kels playing well last season) and then in your earlier post that the bad stuff is down to him (e.g. our defending is systemic not due to missing players)
 

Also, on Nacho, who do you propose taking out of the team to fit him in? Genuinely - Maddison is our most in form player, Vardy is scoring just as regularly as ever and Daka is contributing with G+As.
 

Our problem isn’t at that end of the field. We’ve had no consistency in the back 4 (or 3) and those that have played have dipped in and out of form and fitness. No excuses here though, Rodgers should be able to find a solution to this given how much he is being paid. He managed to do it at the start of last season when he used Mendy really effectively…I wonder if he is regretting not having him at his disposal now. 

 

I think you missed my point Adam, l dont believe Rodgers has improved or furthered Nacho's career one iota, quite the opposite e and on the defence it's Rodgers tactics, selection, system and subs which are killing us e.g. How long it took him to drop the zonal crap.

Nacho could have been rotated with Vards or - heaven forbid - Rodgers coild have changed his (not our) systen to accomodate TWO strikers on form, but that would probably be too attacking for him.

In any system I'd rather see Nacho in the side anywhere in place of the dreadful Perez.

 

Edited 24 December 2021 by J. James

[adam95581]

1 minute ago, J. James said:

I think you missed my point Adam, l dont believe Rodgers has improved or furthered Nacho's career one iota, quite the opposote and on the defence it's Rodgers tactics, selection, system and subs which are killing us e.g. How long it took him to drop the zonal crap.

Nacho could have been rotated with Vards or - heaven forbid - Rodgers coild have changed his (not our) systen to accomodate TWO strikers on form, but that would probably be too attacking for him.

In any system I'd rather see Nacho in the side anywhere in place of the dreadful Perez.

 

Exactly. So you’re not crediting Rodgers with Nacho playing well but you’re blaming him for us not being able to defend. He’s either responsible for all of it or responsible for none of it. You can’t pick and choose. 
 

My view is that he is responsible for all of it, good and bad. Credit him for the good bits if you’re going to rinse him for the bad bits. 
 

Regarding the bold bit. It’s easy to say this but you need to consider how this impacts the balance of the team. Playing Vardy and Nacho up top means you either need to leave key players out or play them out of position (e.g. Barnes, Maddison, even Daka). I really rate Nacho but the only time I’ve seen him work in our team is part of a 3-5-2 and (when everyone is fit) this is at the expense of Barnes which (for me) isn’t going to happen long term. 
 

 

[J. James]

50 minutes ago, adam95581 said:

Exactly. So you’re not crediting Rodgers with Nacho playing well but you’re blaming him for us not being able to defend. He’s either responsible for all of it or responsible for none of it. You can’t pick and choose. 
 

My view is that he is responsible for all of it, good and bad. Credit him for the good bits if you’re going to rinse him for the bad bits. 
 

Regarding the bold bit. It’s easy to say this but you need to consider how this impacts the balance of the team. Playing Vardy and Nacho up top means you either need to leave key players out or play them out of position (e.g. Barnes, Maddison, even Daka). I really rate Nacho but the only time I’ve seen him work in our team is part of a 3-5-2 and (when everyone is fit) this is at the expense of Barnes which (for me) isn’t going to happen long term. 
 

 

Lol, actually you can pick and choose because the two things are simply not connected, if the electrician (Rodgers) comes to fix yer lights and mackles them so that they blow up but the plumber (Nacho) by his own diligence notices and turns off the power and fixes the fault would you say that the electrician (Rodgers) is responsible for both or neither?

Disclaimer:

(I'm quite sure Brendon would make a fine electrician btw and be quite ready to change his work practices if need be).

Anyway we must agree to disagree on BR and his (imo) poor treatment of KI.

 

PS. please dont mention the bold bit....

Oh that's bald isn't it. 😁

[adam95581]

6 minutes ago, J. James said:

Lol, actually you can pick and choose because the two things are simply not connected, if the electrician (Rodgers) comes to fix yer lights and mackles them so that they blow up but the plumber (Nacho) by his own diligence notices and turns off the power and fixes the fault would you say that the electrician (Rodgers) is responsible for both or neither?

Disclaimer:

(I'm quite sure Brendon would make a fine electrician btw and be quite ready to change his work practices if need be).

Anyway we must agree to disagree on BR and his (imo) poor treatment of KI.

 

PS. please dont mention the bold bit....

Oh that's bald isn't it. 😁

😂 between the analogy and the picture I’m not sure what we’re even discussing anymore. Time to call it and say Merry Christmas 🍺🍺