Brendan Rodgers

[Mendi]

It has gone down hill, the question is will Top act ?

Edited 24 December 2021 by Mendi

[l444ry]

It's self evident that Brendan is a top class manager. Surely nobody questions that? But what holds him back from being truly an elite manager  (in my humble opinion) is that he prefers chess to draughts. It's just not in his make up to win ugly or play dirty. He'd rather prattle on about bringing youngsters on than do what Klopp did to us with his youngsters. You pays your money and takes your choice.

[splinterdream]

On 23/12/2021 at 19:06, Jonzey01 said:

He took KDH off as we have about 3 games in the next week, he will be expected to play big parts in all of them. If he gets injured we are really ****ed. Daka also with Vardy having a tight hammy, he is going to be playing a lot of football. Had we had a stronger bench, less injury and covid about I’m sure we would have been fine.  

If he was worried about game time, KDH and Daka were the last players you'd remove due to their age, he could have taken vardy off, madders off for mendy, there were lots of better options 

[volpeazzurro]

9 hours ago, Duquesne Whistle said:

He's not really made the best job of that part. It's obvious the way he wants to play, we just don't have, and haven't signed, the correct players to do it. His folly was in continuing to play that way once it was clear we really couldn't. That's really what got us unto this rut.

He obviously hasn't been helped by injuries but he should have found a way to adapt. So far, I don't think he has.

Quite right. Not the sign of a good manager to me. Play to the strengths of the players you have available to you, not play them regardless to fulfil a woolley system in his head reminiscent of a bygone Spanish dream. 

[Deeg67]

3 hours ago, l444ry said:

It's self evident that Brendan is a top class manager. Surely nobody questions that? But what holds him back from being truly an elite manager  (in my humble opinion) is that he prefers chess to draughts. It's just not in his make up to win ugly or play dirty. He'd rather prattle on about bringing youngsters on than do what Klopp did to us with his youngsters. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I question it.  I think he's bang average at everything but self-promotion (and protection).

[An Sionnach]

8 minutes ago, Deeg67 said:

I question it.  I think he's bang average at everything but self-promotion (and protection).

You have just defined about 95% of all managers.

[Deeg67]

13 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

You have just defined about 95% of all managers.

Which would be the definition of average.

[volpeazzurro]

21 hours ago, adam95581 said:

Exactly. So you’re not crediting Rodgers with Nacho playing well but you’re blaming him for us not being able to defend. He’s either responsible for all of it or responsible for none of it. You can’t pick and choose. 
 

My view is that he is responsible for all of it, good and bad. Credit him for the good bits if you’re going to rinse him for the bad bits. 
 

Regarding the bold bit. It’s easy to say this but you need to consider how this impacts the balance of the team. Playing Vardy and Nacho up top means you either need to leave key players out or play them out of position (e.g. Barnes, Maddison, even Daka). I really rate Nacho but the only time I’ve seen him work in our team is part of a 3-5-2 and (when everyone is fit) this is at the expense of Barnes which (for me) isn’t going to happen long term. 
 

 

1. Yes he can pick and choose, it's his post. Rodgers can't claim credit for a player he refused to play until there was no-one else to pick!

2. He can blame him partly for the defence because when physically short through injury, he persisted with a very weak 5 instead of an extra midfielder to protect a decent back 4, also negating us getting regularly overrun in midfield by certain teams. 

3. Impact what balance? Do you call this balanced shite? His sides have been the opposite of balanced, that's why it's been dire to watch when combined with his dire treacle paced footballing philosophy. 

 

Though not entirely all, the book mainly stops with Rodger the Bodger.

[adam95581]

6 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

1. Yes he can pick and choose, it's his post. Rodgers can't claim credit for a player he refused to play until there was no-one else to pick!

2. He can blame him partly for the defence because when physically short through injury, he persisted with a very weak 5 instead of an extra midfielder to protect a decent back 4, also negating us getting regularly overrun in midfield by certain teams. 

3. Impact what balance? Do you call this balanced shite? His sides have been the opposite of balanced, that's why it's been dire to watch when combined with his dire treacle paced footballing philosophy. 

 

Though not entirely all, the book mainly stops with Rodger the Bodger.

 

I was going to reply with an intelligent response until I read ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 5th two years running and an FA Cup and he’s ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 

[gerblod]

On 24/12/2021 at 10:44, foxfanazer said:

Shouldn't have been playing then should he?Just further reinforces the point that Iheanacho should've had more game time

I can't argue with you because I don't understand the basis of your arguments. Sorry and all that, but I'm unclear about the rationale of the points you're trying to make.

[foxfanazer]

7 minutes ago, gerblod said:

I can't argue with you because I don't understand the basis of your arguments. Sorry and all that, but I'm unclear about the rationale of the points you're trying to make.

No worries. We were talking about Iheanacho being unfairly treated and I said Maddison wasn't in good form so Nacho could've taken his place, you then said that's harsh as he was carrying a long term injury. So my point was that if he's carrying such an injury we shouldn't be including him in the side to the detriment of the team. 

 Obviously Maddison has finally hit some form so no arguments about his inclusion now

[gerblod]

5 minutes ago, foxfanazer said:

No worries. We were talking about Iheanacho being unfairly treated and I said Maddison wasn't in good form so Nacho could've taken his place, you then said that's harsh as he was carrying a long term injury. So my point was that if he's carrying such an injury we shouldn't be including him in the side to the detriment of the team. 

 Obviously Maddison has finally hit some form so no arguments about his inclusion now

That's very much clearer for me to respond to. But I'm off to bed so I'll respond tomorrow. Cheers.

[foxfanazer]

Just now, gerblod said:

That's very much clearer for me to respond to. But I'm off to bed so I'll respond tomorrow. Cheers.

Merry Christmas mate

[volpeazzurro]

2 hours ago, adam95581 said:

 

I was going to reply with an intelligent response until I read ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 5th two years running and an FA Cup and he’s ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 

He inherited a top 4/5 squad at that time. Both seasons we started well until he couldn't resist interferring and changing things and ultimately on two occasions lost us, from commanding positions, a top 4 place with poor tactics and team selections. I give him full credit for fielding strong sides throughout the FA Cup rounds which other's before haven't but, it's a knockout competition and we were somewhat fortunate on the day imo without blue tinted glasses on.

 

We got those two 5th places despite him imo and if he's not ditched in the summer I think he, his ego and philosophy will do us long term damage, particularly if he's allowed any say in the transfer market.  He's lucky to have had us. Time to go. 

[foxfanazer]

2 hours ago, adam95581 said:

 

I was going to reply with an intelligent response until I read ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 5th two years running and an FA Cup and he’s ‘Rodger the Bodger’. 

Maybe he just really likes Mashed potato?

[moore_94]

18 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

He inherited a top 4/5 squad at that time. Both seasons we started well until he couldn't resist interferring and changing things and ultimately on two occasions lost us, from commanding positions, a top 4 place with poor tactics and team selections. I give him full credit for fielding strong sides throughout the FA Cup rounds which other's before haven't but, it's a knockout competition and we were somewhat fortunate on the day imo without blue tinted glasses on.

 

We got those two 5th places despite him imo and if he's not ditched in the summer I think he, his ego and philosophy will do us long term damage, particularly if he's allowed any say in the transfer market.  He's lucky to have had us. Time to go. 

He inherited a top 5 starting 11 at most. The squad depth we have had since he came in has been and mostly still is underwhelming in places.

 

Both seasons we started well until he had no choice but to start changing things because our squad was and still is being decimated through injuries and covid.

 

Players having a good performance does not equate to being fortunate. Your players step up for you and you deserve to win. They had the Mount shot saved by Kasper, the Chilwell header that was hitting the post, and the offside goal (can say it was luck or whatever but it was offside). Lets not pretend like they deserved to win either.

 

You can still think we deserved the two 5th place finishes, the FA Cup, and the Community Shield because of our players and because of him, AND also believe that he is now struggling.

 

You don't have to think because he is doing poorly now that he always has been and that we have only really done well previously because of just the players and that we would've done it without him.

 

Love a bit of revisionism does FoxesTalk.

Edited 25 December 2021 by moore_94

[volpeazzurro]

On 24/12/2021 at 19:20, l444ry said:

It's self evident that Brendan is a top class manager. Surely nobody questions that? But what holds him back from being truly an elite manager  (in my humble opinion) is that he prefers chess to draughts. It's just not in his make up to win ugly or play dirty. He'd rather prattle on about bringing youngsters on than do what Klopp did to us with his youngsters. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I've not seen anything in his career thus far to say he's a top class manager? Bang average and very flawed at best. Top class salesman and blarney perhaps. 

[volpeazzurro]

1 minute ago, moore_94 said:

He inherited a top 5 starting 11 at most.

 

Both seasons we started well until he had no choice but to start changing things because our squad was and still is being decimated through injuries and covid.

 

Players having a good performance does not equate to being fortunate. Your players step up for you and you deserve to win. They had the Mount shot saved by Kasper, the Chilwell header that was hitting the post, and the offside goal (can say it was luck or whatever but it was offside). Lets not pretend like they deserved to win either.

 

You can still think we deserved the two 5th place finishes, the FA Cup, and the Community Shield because of our players and because of him, AND also believe that he is now struggling.

 

You don't have to think because he is doing poorly now that we have only really done well previously because of just the players and that we would've done it without him.

That first bit just isn't true though is it. Think first time. Several great wins playing fast flowing football, quite a few goals including a 9 nil win against Southampton. A short time later, after a change of tactics (why, it was for them to worry), what happened in the return leg? The the game against Norwich who couldn't score let alone win and Rodgers sets up as if away against Bayern Munich! Obsession with possession and control. It went down hill before injuries and when they did happen,he played people continually out of position with poor tactics. Elite manager manager my arse.

[moore_94]

18 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

That first bit just isn't true though is it. Think first time. Several great wins playing fast flowing football, quite a few goals including a 9 nil win against Southampton. A short time later, after a change of tactics (why, it was for them to worry), what happened in the return leg? The the game against Norwich who couldn't score let alone win and Rodgers sets up as if away against Bayern Munich! Obsession with possession and control. It went down hill before injuries and when they did happen,he played people continually out of position with poor tactics. Elite manager manager my arse.

After the Southampton game we then won a further 11 games out of 15, with 2 draws against Norwich and Villa, and only losses to Man City and Liverpool.

 

You mention the Norwich game and the way he set us up when he carried over the exact same 11 and setup that had beaten Villa 4-1 in the previous game. He actually subbed Nacho after 38 minutes for Gray and then brought on Barnes at half time to go back to the 433 because he realised the system didn't work. We then went on to have chances in the 2nd half to win it.

 

We then suffer the injury an Wilf where our form THEN goes off as we lose to Southampton and Burnley without him. Our form improves in the games Wilf returns and we end the season before the break with the 4-0 thrashing of Villa, in which we lose Ricardo for the rest of the season.

 

After the lockdown break we then lose Chilwell for the rest of the games and start having to use Fuchs and Albrighton as wing backs. We then have the shambles at Bournemouth (going to blame Rodgers for what Cags did?), beat Sheff Utd, and then have to play against Spurs and Man Utd with a defence missing 3 of our 4 usual starters and having to use Bennett, Morgan, and a very raw Thomas.

Edited 26 December 2021 by moore_94

[Guest SO1]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

That first bit just isn't true though is it. Think first time. Several great wins playing fast flowing football, quite a few goals including a 9 nil win against Southampton. A short time later, after a change of tactics (why, it was for them to worry), what happened in the return leg? The the game against Norwich who couldn't score let alone win and Rodgers sets up as if away against Bayern Munich! Obsession with possession and control. It went down hill before injuries and when they did happen,he played people continually out of position with poor tactics. Elite manager manager my arse.

 

54 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

After the Southampton game we then won a further 11 games out of 15, with 2 draws against Norwich and Villa, and only losses to Man City and Liverpool.

 

You mention the Norwich game and the way he set us up when he carried over the exact same 11 and setup that had beaten Villa 4-1 in the previous game. He actually subbed Nacho after 38 minutes for Gray and then brought on Barnes at half time to go back to the 433 because he realised the system didn't work. We then went on to have chances in the 2nd half to win it.

 

We then suffer the injury an Wilf where our form THEN goes off as we lose to Southampton and Burnley without him. Our form improves in the games Wilf returns and we end the season before the break with the 4-0 thrashing of Villa, in which we lose Ricardo for the rest of the season.

 

After the lockdown break we then lose Chilwell for the rest of the games and start having to use Fuchs and Albrighton as wing backs. We then have the shambles at Bournemouth (going to blame Rodgers for what Cags did?), beat Sheff Utd, and then have to play against Spurs and Man Utd with a defence missing 3 of our 4 usual starters and having to use Bennett, Morgan, and a very raw Thomas.

smells like something burning.

Edited 26 December 2021 by SO1

[gerblod]

10 hours ago, foxfanazer said:

No worries. We were talking about Iheanacho being unfairly treated and I said Maddison wasn't in good form so Nacho could've taken his place, you then said that's harsh as he was carrying a long term injury. So my point was that if he's carrying such an injury we shouldn't be including him in the side to the detriment of the team. 

 Obviously Maddison has finally hit some form so no arguments about his inclusion now

Right...and a Merry Christmas to you, too.

I see Maddison and Iheanacho as completely differing players. They both perform to their best when inspired, but they take that inspiration from very different sources. Maddison loves being the kingpin, around whom things happen - due to a list of attributes - his ability to keep the ball, to throw defenders; the accuracy of his passing and shooting and the guile to buy a foul. He inspires himself and loves the resulting plaudits.

Iheanacho capitalises on the opportunities his colleagues provide. He can shield and hold the ball well, has a 'clinical' shot and is relatively unselfish (for a striker) when he sees a chance to feed someone. He takes confidence from being part of a team working well around him. But I don't see him as a playmaker - but a cool, focused and 'deadly' finisher.

Neither are like Vardy. He puts a shift in rain or shine - never loses self-belief or patience - during a lean spell he will wait it out until he gets back to his best.

Maddison and various combinations of Vardy/Daka, Vardy/Iheanacho and Daka/Iheanacho (not yet?) could all frighten the life out of opposition teams. At the moment, the Maddison/Vardy/Daka is top option - but you're right that Iheanacho has not been given an opportunity to extend last season's terrific run. Rodgers pulled the same stunt with Thomas.

Once (if) BR repairs his defence and the team stop leaking goals then he can be freer to experiment with forward combinations.

However, I'm not confident that he has the ability to make the right substitutions at the right time. And, yes, you're right - Maddison should not have been played whilst carrying an injury. It made him unhappy and made him demotivated. 

Edited 26 December 2021 by gerblod
Turned Patson Daka into two players. "Patson" should have read as Vardy

[adam95581]

8 hours ago, moore_94 said:

He inherited a top 5 starting 11 at most. The squad depth we have had since he came in has been and mostly still is underwhelming in places.

 

Both seasons we started well until he had no choice but to start changing things because our squad was and still is being decimated through injuries and covid.

 

Players having a good performance does not equate to being fortunate. Your players step up for you and you deserve to win. They had the Mount shot saved by Kasper, the Chilwell header that was hitting the post, and the offside goal (can say it was luck or whatever but it was offside). Lets not pretend like they deserved to win either.

 

You can still think we deserved the two 5th place finishes, the FA Cup, and the Community Shield because of our players and because of him, AND also believe that he is now struggling.

 

You don't have to think because he is doing poorly now that he always has been and that we have only really done well previously because of just the players and that we would've done it without him.

 

Love a bit of revisionism does FoxesTalk.

You’ve said everything I would have said so thank you. I’m not trying to change anyones opinion of him (providing they have a rationale argument), I’m just advocating for balance. Credit the good stuff, criticise the bad stuff but take stock of it as a whole. 

[Steve Earle]

Very good piece about BR in the Telegraph by Jamie Carragher. Well reasoned argument that Rodgers is overachieving. So most FT posters shouldn't read it.

[Kinowe Soorie]

5 minutes ago, Steve Earle said:

Very good piece about BR in the Telegraph by Jamie Carragher. Well reasoned argument that Rodgers is overachieving. So most FT posters shouldn't read it.

He would say that, Not sure if he’s ever said anything positive about us!?

Edited 26 December 2021 by Kinowe Soorie
Kevin Pooooole

[The Quick Brown Fox]

I was really surprised and happy to hear him saying he looked at the team and last few games as if he had come in as a new manager (after the team were booed off the pitch). The next game we played really well, proper attacking football, since then it's gone back to the shitty sideways and slow build up play. 

 

The Liverpool first half we played the quick attacking football which we love to see, then in the 2nd half Brendan made his changes which cost us the game. I've said to others it's like he wants sacking, since the Arse/Tott/ Man Utd jobs were up for grabs he doesn't seem to be up for it.