Brendan Rodgers

[Fox92]

17 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

Guardiola is undoubtedly a clever bloke and his record speaks for itself but he has managed three of the wealthiest clubs in the world which has to be a major factor in his success. Perhaps one day he will take an unfancied club to the top and that will certainly cement his reputation.

That's like saying why don't the greatest players in the World go and play in division 2.

[An Sionnach]

54 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

That's like saying why don't the greatest players in the World go and play in division 2.

If  Colchester offer ten million a year then it could happen. We often get the argument that players want trophies but money rules everything. Guardiola has been dealt at least a full house at every club he has been at so of course he wins. Messi, Lewandowski and Aguero have certainly helped his cause.

[sacreblueits442]

10 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

If  Colchester offer ten million a year then it could happen. We often get the argument that players want trophies but money rules everything. Guardiola has been dealt at least a full house at every club he has been at so of course he wins. Messi, Lewandowski and Aguero have certainly helped his cause.

....you can be handed a team of galacticos and still struggle to make them work as a team!!!

As a manager you have to command the respect of your players, some managers do not have that kudos and therefore will struggle to succeed. If you put Rodgers as manager of the Barcelona team with Messi and his teammates, the chances are he would not have in anyway the same success.

[gw_leics772]

8 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....you can be handed a team of galacticos and still struggle to make them work as a team!!!

As a manager you have to command the respect of your players, some managers do not have that kudos and therefore will struggle to succeed. If you put Rodgers as manager of the Barcelona team with Messi and his teammates, the chances are he would not have in anyway the same success.

Yeah, but if you put Pearson in charge, that scruffy ****'d be training with the kids in no time.

[tom27111]

1 minute ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....you can be handed a team of galacticos and still struggle to make them work as a team!!!

As a manager you have to command the respect of your players, some managers do not have that kudos and therefore will struggle to succeed. If you put Rodgers as manager of the Barcelona team with Messi and his teammates, the chances are he would not have in anyway the same success.

That's a bit of an extreme example.

 

Would Brendan not have commanded the respect because of his playing career?

 

OK, Pep played for Barca and obviously bought into the ideas originally floated at Barca by Cruyff, so fitted their philosophy. 

 

But how has Klopp become one of the best managers? And Tuchel?

 

Or is it not about that? What is it about then?

 

I think Frank Rijkaard did OK at Barca, won a Champions League, but who else has given him a job?

[fuchsntf]

On 30/01/2022 at 19:50, NasPb said:

My issue with Rodgers has always been his stubbornness in all senses and the fact that he has tried to downplay our ambitions. If he could iron these things out we'd be much better off. I'd give him time like Everton did with moyes. 

All Sporting managers, thaankfully are stubborn...

If they were not, they would be Football fans..

[NasPb]

3 hours ago, fuchsntf said:

All Sporting managers, thaankfully are stubborn...

If they were not, they would be Football fans..

To degrees though mate. 

[Babylon]

On 30/01/2022 at 18:50, NasPb said:

My issue with Rodgers has always been his stubbornness in all senses and the fact that he has tried to downplay our ambitions. If he could iron these things out we'd be much better off. I'd give him time like Everton did with moyes. 

You should probably read what he actually said rather than a headline.

[Babylon]

Let’s be honest here, what people mean by stubbornness is him not doing things the way they want him to.

[Dames]

56 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Let’s be honest here, what people mean by stubbornness is him not doing things the way they want him to.

That and clearly sticking to things that don’t work far past any sane person would. Zonal marking for example.

[AKCJ]

1 minute ago, Dames said:

That and clearly sticking to things that don’t work far past any sane person would. Zonal marking for example.

We haven't marked zonally in months.

[Dames]

1 minute ago, AKCJ said:

We haven't marked zonally in months.

We’ve barely played any games in that time either. 
 

Besides the point, he stuck with it far longer than he should have when it was most obviously hindering us. Just because its not happening right now doesn’t erase the fact. 

[sacreblueits442]

9 hours ago, tom27111 said:

That's a bit of an extreme example.

 

Would Brendan not have commanded the respect because of his playing career?

 

OK, Pep played for Barca and obviously bought into the ideas originally floated at Barca by Cruyff, so fitted their philosophy. 

 

But how has Klopp become one of the best managers? And Tuchel?

 

Or is it not about that? What is it about then?

 

I think Frank Rijkaard did OK at Barca, won a Champions League, but who else has given him a job?

...not so much their individual playing careers, but the people themselves!!!

  Their approach to the game along with a philosophy and strident belief in what they sought to achieve. 

  Their mentality is very much reflective of the team they lead.

[NasPb]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Let’s be honest here, what people mean by stubbornness is him not doing things the way they want him to.

No its not that. It's not using using kelechi to the best of his abilities, it's limiting squad players like praet mendy etc. It's playing too defensive constantly when winning... Etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Rodgers out but he's his biggest own enemy. Read Liverpool, reading fans. Similar patterns in the third year. Hope he can change though. Would prefer for him to stick around like moyse at Everton but he's got to be willing to change more. 

Edited 1 February 2022 by NasPb

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, Dames said:

We’ve barely played any games in that time either. 
 

Besides the point, he stuck with it far longer than he should have when it was most obviously hindering us. Just because its not happening right now doesn’t erase the fact. 

Another example of stubbornness. This is what i mean. 

[sacreblueits442]

5 minutes ago, NasPb said:

No its not that. It's not using using kelechi to the best of his abilities, it's limiting squad players like praet mendy etc. It's playing too defensive constantly when winning... Etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Rodgers out but he's his biggest own enemy. Read Liverpool, reading fans. Similar patterns in the third year. Hope he can change though. Would prefer for him to stick around like moyse at Everton but he's got to be willing to change more. 

...he needs to spend time in the stands and get a different perspective of the game!!!

  I remember Pearson having been sent to the stands in a game, deciding that  he would continue to do so, as it afforded him a different take on what was happening on the pitch.

 I would suggest the stubborn description thrown at him also encompasses the "zonal marking", so heavily debated. The change however came when his peers were calling him out on a glaring reason why he should alter what he was doing, as this problem had been going  on for sometime, and he sought not to address it. When you have the media commentators forensically highlighting a problem (that we have noticed long ago) and that can easily be addressed, is when he chooses to act. We did not need to go through games where we were forever conceding at set pieces, that part of our game should have been tidied up, but it was never addressed. 

  He is very much like Boris, only when he has been found out will he admit there were failings. The constant berating of his coaches could have been avoided, he just seemed to think it wasn't important. 

[Koke]

Coming up to 3 years since he arrived. Whilst finishing 5fh twice is a success but in context of how we finished 5th is still a bit sour. It's like winning a million but 800k is taken away from you. You're still 200k richer than before but you are still unhappy about what you didn't get. 

 

Overall Rodgers is a success but a lot of "what ifs" is still being asked. What if the Spurs debacle last season didn't happen when Chelsea handed 4th to us on a plate, or finishing 3rd behind Spartak ****ing Moscow, or losing to a Slavia Prague side that aren't that good, or chucking away 15 points to a pathetic United team. Or the Villa semi final. 

 

This team has/has so much potential and probably should have achieved more. Still can achieve more. But I'm just putting into context why some fans are not hot on Rodgers atm.

[Babylon]

56 minutes ago, NasPb said:

No its not that. It's not using using kelechi to the best of his abilities, it's limiting squad players like praet mendy etc. It's playing too defensive constantly when winning... Etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm not Rodgers out but he's his biggest own enemy. Read Liverpool, reading fans. Similar patterns in the third year. Hope he can change though. Would prefer for him to stick around like moyse at Everton but he's got to be willing to change more. 

So exactly what I just said then.

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Koke said:

Coming up to 3 years since he arrived. Whilst finishing 5fh twice is a success but in context of how we finished 5th is still a bit sour. It's like winning a million but 800k is taken away from you. You're still 200k richer than before but you are still unhappy about what you didn't get. 

 

Overall Rodgers is a success but a lot of "what ifs" is still being asked. What if the Spurs debacle last season didn't happen when Chelsea handed 4th to us on a plate, or finishing 3rd behind Spartak ****ing Moscow, or losing to a Slavia Prague side that aren't that good, or chucking away 15 points to a pathetic United team. Or the Villa semi final. 

 

This team has/has so much potential and probably should have achieved more. Still can achieve more. But I'm just putting into context why some fans are not hot on Rodgers atm.

Was a fascinating snippet on Rodgers on talksport at the weekend where Chris Wilder said what a tactical genius and coach he was. Afterwards the presenters were saying how odd it was that Rodgers doesn't get the respect and adulation he probably deserves if you go off what players and those in football think of him. 

 

They went on to say that Liverpool, Celtic and Leicester fans had and have huge sections of the support that no longer want him. They have a point but there are reasons behind it, especially for Liverpool.

[Scotch]

3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Was a fascinating snippet on Rodgers on talksport at the weekend where Chris Wilder said what a tactical genius and coach he was. Afterwards the presenters were saying how odd it was that Rodgers doesn't get the respect and adulation he probably deserves if you go off what players and those in football think of him. 

 

They went on to say that Liverpool, Celtic and Leicester fans had and have huge sections of the support that no longer want him. They have a point but there are reasons behind it, especially for Liverpool.

In terms of us, Celtic and Liverpool fans not seeing him as the "tactical genius" that others do from the outside looking in is that we see the mistakes he makes more often. The wrong subs at the wrong time, defending leads too early, making the wrong tactical adjustments.... We see him do it in more detail, more often. We are not just looking at a results page at the score after the game or a league table when the season is done. 

 

Not to say that he's not a good manager and that other top managers don't make the same mistakes but I think for a large selection of supporters, it's hard to look past some of his decisions or how long it takes him to address certain issues and see him as an elite manager. 

 

I personally believe that it's his pride and stubbornness that holds him back. I think he wants to be proven right more than he I willing to admit getting something wrong but the knowledge is there to put him in that top tier of managers. 

[Sharpe's Fox]

People who want Rodgers out come up with the most innane rubbish to attack him with. Be serious or go whistle.

[Matt_Lcfc]

51 minutes ago, Koke said:

Coming up to 3 years since he arrived. Whilst finishing 5fh twice is a success but in context of how we finished 5th is still a bit sour. It's like winning a million but 800k is taken away from you. You're still 200k richer than before but you are still unhappy about what you didn't get. 

 

Overall Rodgers is a success but a lot of "what ifs" is still being asked. What if the Spurs debacle last season didn't happen when Chelsea handed 4th to us on a plate, or finishing 3rd behind Spartak ****ing Moscow, or losing to a Slavia Prague side that aren't that good, or chucking away 15 points to a pathetic United team. Or the Villa semi final. 

 

This team has/has so much potential and probably should have achieved more. Still can achieve more. But I'm just putting into context why some fans are not hot on Rodgers atm.

Good post. I think people have been very quick to merely look at what we have achieved and subsequently this has put less focus on the circumstances. I understand the argument that the pandemic somewhat halted our momentum, but we were 24 games in and 14 points clear off United. We were also in a very similar situation last season. Whilst we did overachieve there are two underlying points for me: firstly, we had an immensely talented squad and secondly, the big clubs were in transition. To me, it does feel like a missed opportunity when you look at how clubs have strengthened in the past year or so.

 

The Villa semi-final and the lacklustre Europa League campaign both last season and this season are other prime examples. On the flip side, we have won the FA Cup and at times played some of the best football I’ve ever seen us play. But, I echo your sentiments completely; we have missed a number of good opportunities under Rodgers.

 

[Aus Fox]

50 minutes ago, Koke said:

Coming up to 3 years since he arrived. Whilst finishing 5fh twice is a success but in context of how we finished 5th is still a bit sour. It's like winning a million but 800k is taken away from you. You're still 200k richer than before but you are still unhappy about what you didn't get. 

 

Overall Rodgers is a success but a lot of "what ifs" is still being asked. What if the Spurs debacle last season didn't happen when Chelsea handed 4th to us on a plate, or finishing 3rd behind Spartak ****ing Moscow, or losing to a Slavia Prague side that aren't that good, or chucking away 15 points to a pathetic United team. Or the Villa semi final. 

 

This team has/has so much potential and probably should have achieved more. Still can achieve more. But I'm just putting into context why some fans are not hot on Rodgers atm.

It depends how you chose to see things, you can take the last three season the way you have or, you can see it as the best period in the clubs history.

A season in played over 38 games, not, 15,20 or 25, falling away at the end just meant we had our bad run at a different time to others.

The pathetic Man Utd team you talk of, overhauled us because they took 33 points from 13 games at the end of the season and don’t lose a game after they signed Bruno Fernandez.

The what if’s can also be, what if Ricardo didn’t get smashed against Villa, what if Jonny Evans had stayed fit.

What if the referee had given us that penalty at home to Brighton in19/20 or one of the 2 stone wallers against Villa in the semi. 
What if UEFA had some balls and didn’t cave in to Man City allowing them back into the CL.

Fans will look back on this as a great period in the clubs history and wonder why so many couldn’t just enjoy it. 

[Matt_Lcfc]

5 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

It depends how you chose to see things, you can take the last three season the way you have or, you can see it as the best period in the clubs history.

A season in played over 38 games, not, 15,20 or 25, falling away at the end just meant we had our bad run at a different time to others.

The pathetic Man Utd team you talk of, overhauled us because they took 33 points from 13 games at the end of the season and don’t lose a game after they signed Bruno Fernandez.

The what if’s can also be, what if Ricardo didn’t get smashed against Villa, what if Jonny Evans had stayed fit.

What if the referee had given us that penalty at home to Brighton in19/20 or one of the 2 stone wallers against Villa in the semi. 
What if UEFA had some balls and didn’t cave in to Man City allowing them back into the CL.

Fans will look back on this as a great period in the clubs history and wonder why so many couldn’t just enjoy it. 

Nah, I think it’s important to look at yourselves in those situations. It isn’t about Man United or Man City, it should be what if we didn’t capitulate against Bournemouth or get battered by an awful Newcastle side. The reality is that we easily had the capability to finish in the top four given the position that we were in. The same applies for Europe this season.  It was actually inexcusable to get beat by Legia and not beat Spartak at home.

 

But yeah, you have a point about this being a great period. Two 5th placed finishes, some iconic games and an FA Cup. It truly has been remarkable and we should not forget that.

Edited 1 February 2022 by Matt_Lcfc

[Guest SO1]

16 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

People who want Rodgers out come up with the most innane rubbish to attack him with. Be serious or go whistle.

Been listening to the trash for 10 years now.  Funny how once he leaves a club there are many who have great respect for the football he plays, his contribution and respect for the clubs both on and off the field. I'm sure the same will happen here when it's time. Just have to block out the noise Hindsight is 20/20.