Brendan Rodgers

[Smashing-Pumpkin]

Discussions like these really boil down to this for me.

 

At some point, a team cant keep moving forwards. It is bound to regress through a combination of factors, and then needs to be rebuilt in order to move forwards again. The only other thing that could happen is the team bobs along at a consistently average level, and then people will question why the team isnt moving forwards or can someone take the team "to the next level".

 

The question then becomes, is the current manager the right manager to rebuild the team, or do you need someone else to do it.

 

And I think thats where we are with Rodgers.

 

Given his CV, given what hes already achieved, and given that theres no real indication he has lost the dressing room, im not sure why there would be such a clamour to remove Rodgers. Unless you had someone in mind that was definitely better and realistic, and I think those options are limited.

 

Changing the manager just for the sake of change, or off the back of a few months worth of downturned performances doesnt make sense to me. I get that weve had downward periods towards the end of seasons under Rodgers but when you treat the seasons as a whole, theyve been good.

 

But its the way of football now. Managers have a very short shelf life and fans get bored easily. They demand more.

 

Its just that the default position then always becomes "swap the manager for someone else". And sure, this will probably give the team a lift for a few games, maybe a couple of months. Would we actually be BETTER off in the long term? who knows, probably not.

 

So thats how i feel about it. I feel sometimes you just have to suck up a bad period. Losing is something you sign up for as part of the deal as a fan.

 

Id keep Rodgers until it was obvious he had either lost the dressing room, lost his own ability and philosophy in the way Mourinho seems to have done, or that a signficantly AND realistic option was available, and by that I dont mean someone like Potter just for the sake of change.

[Ric Flair]

15 minutes ago, Smashing-Pumpkin said:

Discussions like these really boil down to this for me.

 

At some point, a team cant keep moving forwards. It is bound to regress through a combination of factors, and then needs to be rebuilt in order to move forwards again. The only other thing that could happen is the team bobs along at a consistently average level, and then people will question why the team isnt moving forwards or can someone take the team "to the next level".

 

The question then becomes, is the current manager the right manager to rebuild the team, or do you need someone else to do it.

 

And I think thats where we are with Rodgers.

 

Given his CV, given what hes already achieved, and given that theres no real indication he has lost the dressing room, im not sure why there would be such a clamour to remove Rodgers. Unless you had someone in mind that was definitely better and realistic, and I think those options are limited.

 

Changing the manager just for the sake of change, or off the back of a few months worth of downturned performances doesnt make sense to me. I get that weve had downward periods towards the end of seasons under Rodgers but when you treat the seasons as a whole, theyve been good.

 

But its the way of football now. Managers have a very short shelf life and fans get bored easily. They demand more.

 

Its just that the default position then always becomes "swap the manager for someone else". And sure, this will probably give the team a lift for a few games, maybe a couple of months. Would we actually be BETTER off in the long term? who knows, probably not.

 

So thats how i feel about it. I feel sometimes you just have to suck up a bad period. Losing is something you sign up for as part of the deal as a fan.

 

Id keep Rodgers until it was obvious he had either lost the dressing room, lost his own ability and philosophy in the way Mourinho seems to have done, or that a signficantly AND realistic option was available, and by that I dont mean someone like Potter just for the sake of change.

Absolutely nailed it with this.

[RichMC24]

I'm pretty positive about it all really. 

 

Football managers can't simply discard their entire philosophy just because things aren't working very well.   Rodgers has a clear, preferred way he wants his teams to play and over the last three years we have seen our best sustained period of success.  I think most sensible people would have taken successive 5th place finishes and an FA Cup win had Rodgers offered that when he signed.    I get the disappointment of dropping out of the top 4 but I don't subscribe to the "bottler" tag at all.  Staying in the top four is stupidly hard.  That's why no-one outside the top 6 generally ever get in there.   It's a testament we ever got close.

 

Clearly this year, injuries have disrupted the season.  Rodgers has tried to instil his preferred playing method into available resources but this hasn't been very successful.  Credit to Rodgers though as he hasn't stuck doggedly to his game plan, he has adapted.  That adaptation might appear slow to football fans, but as a manager, it's unwise to make sweeping changes to tactics mid-season or to keep chopping ang changing every game.  Footballers need clear direction and continuity - need time to adjust and develop themselves to suit a certain style.  You don't just throw that all away because results are bad.  Rodgers though has made tweaks, playing more direct at times, defensive setups, pushing out to the wings when Vardy isn't playing rather than through the middle.

 

I can't really understand the Rodgers out brigade.  It's a frustrating season but this isn't the same as Ranieri 2nd season, or Puel.  We were obviously going in the wrong direction then and needed to change.  For me, we need to finish as strongly as possible, get our players back, have a good summer, freshen the squad and I'm looking forward to enjoying a better season next year.

 

Definitely a Rodgers in guy.  You never know when you'll be lumbered with the next Peter Taylor.

[An Sionnach]

I always thought Rodgers was overrated , he is a good manager in certain areas but weak in others. Almost all managers are. The eulogies accorded to him when we were playing well were way over the top and the recent brutal criticism is equally so. The core problem , I think is players attitudes. They started to believe they were better than they are and as soon as that was exposed as wrong. their spirits dropped. They seem to have finally got the message now that to succeed you have to play as a team and fight for everything. The players who exemplify that are Albrighton, Amartey and KDH. It is no coincidence that they are long time Leicester players.  That attitude should see us in a comfortable mid table position this season and set us up for perhaps a better one next time.

Edited 2 March 2022 by An Sionnach

[Ric Flair]

As a staunch Rodgers out man in the last 2 months, prior to that I'd stuck up for him until I eventually snapped, there is still 2 things that have to improve for him to remain the right man to lead us forward, 3 if we allow him to be heavily involved in the recruitment rebuild.

 

1) player conditioning and injuries. Dress it up however you like, but you'd all fail a lie detector test of you answered " bad luck " when questioned under oath. It simply has to improve, whether that's a whole new medical set up or Rodgers agrees that mistakes have been made and is open to ideas how to improve it. If it doesn't then it's futile planning for the future as we'll forever be inhibited.

 

2) defending set pieces. Clean sheet last night and in open play I felt we defended very very well, bar the one chance for Cornet that he poked wide. The offside, however tight was still offside and wasn't a defensive error per se anyway, Thomas did get turned inside but the way the ball fell was tricky. Set pieces though we still aren't determined enough to attack the ball and clear it, we allow the opposition to fight for it and hope we do enough to block it or get there if it lands near us. That's not good enough for a team who wants to challenge for trophies and Europe, too many teams are strong at set pieces and we'll continue to let ourselves down if this isn't improved significantly. I'm not so sure it's personnel either, there's got to be a confidence and mentality shift and again, if Rodgers can't do it then get a we'll regarded coach in to help. Otherwise it's another huge question mark over Rodgers tenure.

 

I still am happy with the squad being behind Rodgers, they are broadly still playing for him but there's a possible drop off in effectiveness of his methods and that's why a squad refresh and Rodgers making some adjustments to the way he does things is essential. The jury is very much out on whether that will be a success though.

 

If Congerton goes, the club wrestle back control entirely on recruitment then maybe there's an opportunity for Rodgers to prove he can be successful longer than a few years at a club. I would be very happy if he did, this isn't personal regarding why I'm keen for him to move on, I'm a pragmatist/realist and exceptional football expert.

[roblcfc84]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

As a staunch Rodgers out man in the last 2 months, prior to that I'd stuck up for him until I eventually snapped, there is still 2 things that have to improve for him to remain the right man to lead us forward, 3 if we allow him to be heavily involved in the recruitment rebuild.

 

1) player conditioning and injuries. Dress it up however you like, but you'd all fail a lie detector test of you answered " bad luck " when questioned under oath. It simply has to improve, whether that's a whole new medical set up or Rodgers agrees that mistakes have been made and is open to ideas how to improve it. If it doesn't then it's futile planning for the future as we'll forever be inhibited.

 

2) defending set pieces. Clean sheet last night and in open play I felt we defended very very well, bar the one chance for Cornet that he poked wide. The offside, however tight was still offside and wasn't a defensive error per se anyway, Thomas did get turned inside but the way the ball fell was tricky. Set pieces though we still aren't determined enough to attack the ball and clear it, we allow the opposition to fight for it and hope we do enough to block it or get there if it lands near us. That's not good enough for a team who wants to challenge for trophies and Europe, too many teams are strong at set pieces and we'll continue to let ourselves down if this isn't improved significantly. I'm not so sure it's personnel either, there's got to be a confidence and mentality shift and again, if Rodgers can't do it then get a we'll regarded coach in to help. Otherwise it's another huge question mark over Rodgers tenure.

 

I still am happy with the squad being behind Rodgers, they are broadly still playing for him but there's a possible drop off in effectiveness of his methods and that's why a squad refresh and Rodgers making some adjustments to the way he does things is essential. The jury is very much out on whether that will be a success though.

 

If Congerton goes, the club wrestle back control entirely on recruitment then maybe there's an opportunity for Rodgers to prove he can be successful longer than a few years at a club. I would be very happy if he did, this isn't personal regarding why I'm keen for him to move on, I'm a pragmatist/realist and exceptional football expert.

Sums up perfectly where I’m at

[TheStig]

7 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

As a staunch Rodgers out man in the last 2 months, prior to that I'd stuck up for him until I eventually snapped, there is still 2 things that have to improve for him to remain the right man to lead us forward, 3 if we allow him to be heavily involved in the recruitment rebuild.

 

1) player conditioning and injuries. Dress it up however you like, but you'd all fail a lie detector test of you answered " bad luck " when questioned under oath. It simply has to improve, whether that's a whole new medical set up or Rodgers agrees that mistakes have been made and is open to ideas how to improve it. If it doesn't then it's futile planning for the future as we'll forever be inhibited.

 

2) defending set pieces. Clean sheet last night and in open play I felt we defended very very well, bar the one chance for Cornet that he poked wide. The offside, however tight was still offside and wasn't a defensive error per se anyway, Thomas did get turned inside but the way the ball fell was tricky. Set pieces though we still aren't determined enough to attack the ball and clear it, we allow the opposition to fight for it and hope we do enough to block it or get there if it lands near us. That's not good enough for a team who wants to challenge for trophies and Europe, too many teams are strong at set pieces and we'll continue to let ourselves down if this isn't improved significantly. I'm not so sure it's personnel either, there's got to be a confidence and mentality shift and again, if Rodgers can't do it then get a we'll regarded coach in to help. Otherwise it's another huge question mark over Rodgers tenure.

 

I still am happy with the squad being behind Rodgers, they are broadly still playing for him but there's a possible drop off in effectiveness of his methods and that's why a squad refresh and Rodgers making some adjustments to the way he does things is essential. The jury is very much out on whether that will be a success though.

 

If Congerton goes, the club wrestle back control entirely on recruitment then maybe there's an opportunity for Rodgers to prove he can be successful longer than a few years at a club. I would be very happy if he did, this isn't personal regarding why I'm keen for him to move on, I'm a pragmatist/realist and exceptional football expert.

your last remark is unecessary....we know

 

[Vazman]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

Why is it that as soon as we win a game for the first time in quite a while the 'humble pie/I told you so' brigade are out in force? Most people who have criticised Rodgers do not have an agenda against him. If they were to be given a straight choice between Rodgers turning it around or a new manager coming in and turning it around I'm sure they would rather Rodgers turn it around, they are just having doubts on whether he can do it. People are more than happy to be proven wrong because it ultimately means that Leicester City are doing well, which is what we all want. Yesterday's win came as a big relief and I was over the moon that we got the three points. I also believe that he managed the game much better than previously with his approach and substitutions. He has the rest of this season to really prove his doubters wrong and as someone that was leaning towards thinking that he shouldn't be our manager next season, I hope he does prove them/us wrong. 

100% bang on.

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

Why is it that as soon as we win a game for the first time in quite a while the 'humble pie/I told you so' brigade are out in force? Most people who have criticised Rodgers do not have an agenda against him. If they were to be given a straight choice between Rodgers turning it around or a new manager coming in and turning it around I'm sure they would rather Rodgers turn it around, they are just having doubts on whether he can do it. People are more than happy to be proven wrong because it ultimately means that Leicester City are doing well, which is what we all want. Yesterday's win came as a big relief and I was over the moon that we got the three points. I also believe that he managed the game much better than previously with his approach and substitutions. He has the rest of this season to really prove his doubters wrong and as someone that was leaning towards thinking that he shouldn't be our manager next season, I hope he does prove them/us wrong. 

Because they're insecure. I'll give credit where due (and I do think it was better) but I'm not sold on one win. I'd want to see a long term upturn in form before we get carried away.

[sammy82]

Judging the last 3 prem games the players definitely still believe in him and looked really hungry last night, hopefully we see the same effort and aggression on Saturday 

[foxfanazer]

2 minutes ago, sammy82 said:

Judging the last 3 prem games the players definitely still believe in him and looked really hungry last night, hopefully we see the same effort and aggression on Saturday 

I don't think it's ever been in question that the players have stopped playing for him.

[Kilworthfox]

Nothing has changed, but I am delighted to see Vardy back, scoring & assisting just topped it off 

 

I have no faith in BR to turn us back into a team challenging for European spots.

I have no faith that he can recruit players with sufficient quality to improve the first team, or squad.

I have no faith in his ability to improve the defence.

I have no faith that he will suddenly develop a new tactical approach, making us harder to play against.

 

I want us to progress and play well, with full commitment and belief in the way we are to play. the performances have not shown this most of this season, which has negatively effected some key players form.

 

 

[Smashing-Pumpkin]

1 minute ago, Kilworthfox said:

Nothing has changed, but I am delighted to see Vardy back, scoring & assisting just topped it off 

 

I have no faith in BR to turn us back into a team challenging for European spots.

I have no faith that he can recruit players with sufficient quality to improve the first team, or squad.

I have no faith in his ability to improve the defence.

I have no faith that he will suddenly develop a new tactical approach, making us harder to play against.

 

I want us to progress and play well, with full commitment and belief in the way we are to play. the performances have not shown this most of this season, which has negatively effected some key players form.

 

 

Do you have a name in mind that fulfils your criteria, and can demonstrate how said person has done this in his previous jobs?

[Ric Flair]

3 minutes ago, Smashing-Pumpkin said:

Do you have a name in mind that fulfils your criteria, and can demonstrate how said person has done this in his previous jobs?

http://www.football-oranje.com/why-arent-we-talking-about-arne-slot-spotlight-on-feyenoord-head-coach/

[Smashing-Pumpkin]

2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

http://www.football-oranje.com/why-arent-we-talking-about-arne-slot-spotlight-on-feyenoord-head-coach/

I cant pretend im an eredivise expert but Feyenoord have performed well this season and do have some very good young players.

 

A few years back I felt Gio Van Bronckhorst would be a good candidate for us, this was around the time Shakespeare left I think. He had bagged a league title with them and brought through lots of youth too, i feel theyre probably cut from the same cloth.

[Ric Flair]

Just now, Smashing-Pumpkin said:

I cant pretend im an eredivise expert but Feyenoord have performed well this season and do have some very good young players.

 

A few years back I felt Gio Van Bronckhorst would be a good candidate for us, this was around the time Shakespeare left I think. He had bagged a league title with them and brought through lots of youth too, i feel theyre probably cut from the same cloth.

AZ in 2019/20 were one of my favourite teams to watch, Slot brought through an unbelievable amount of talent in Stengs, Boadu, Koopmeiners, Wijndal and progressed the likes of Idrissi and others.

 

His style of football is everything we'd welcome, fast and aggressive pressing. Scores a lot of goals, defensively strong too. It will be interesting if we get through this Rennes last 16 tie and get Feyenoord, I'd be fascinated to see. He's again doing very well there, turned Kocku in to a potential superstar.

[Kilworthfox]

31 minutes ago, Smashing-Pumpkin said:

Do you have a name in mind that fulfils your criteria, and can demonstrate how said person has done this in his previous jobs?

In my opinion we need a manager, not a coach! You can employ a great first team coach under a manager, like we did with Martin O'Neill.

 

I think it would be best to get away from the new manager / coach type and go back to an excellent man manager who is tactically astute!

 

I guess it all depends on funds and ambition, seeing as we pay £12 million a year currently, we can actively go after pretty much any coach outside of the (assumption) top 10 coaches paid worldwide?

 

I'd take Mourinho (if he is wiling to leave Roma, or Wilder, Conte (Salary) if Spurs continue to be Spursy and he leaves which I expect. I am not really an expert, but who is at picking managers lol, but I have a philosophy at least.

 

We are an exciting proposition for a top manager these days! We should have a plan to be successful, but realise that we wont be a success by copying what other do, that isn't how we got to our current position. We have an amazing project for someone competent to pick up and develop. We HAVE to get the recruitment right, then have a manager who inspires, then we will be back in the top 4/6, in my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 March 2022 by Kilworthfox

[Jackubu]

3 hours ago, Fox92 said:

If it wasn't for Pope we'd have won at least 4-0.

 

3 hours ago, Simmo86 said:

2-0 flattered Burnley, not us.

 

I'm very much Rodgers out but we played well last night and we've definitely improved since Forest/Liverpool. 

 

We have improved for sure, I dont dispute that. But we were not defensively strong last night. There was a moment Thomas was tracking a runner in the box (think lennon) and Soyuncu tried to make him abandon him to focus on the overlap; where's the logic there? A team who could attack beat us last night. 

Edited 2 March 2022 by Jackubu

[sacreblueits442]

3 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

There is too much emphasis on Rodgers whether we win or lose. Managers can do only so much. Its down to the team in the end and I mean team. If you play in a cohesive way you do better like last night. We need to do this consistently and so do Spurs and Man.Utd. The presence of Vardy draws the team together and that has been the case for years. Let us hope he is available for the rest of the season.

...it was great to have Vardy back in the team, but let's no kid ourselves that he is the answer to our ills!!!

  Many times he has been left isolated up the top of the pitch unable to influence the game in anyway. We have struggled and  have gone through slumps with him in the team. No doubt the team would have had a lift from Vardy being back but he is not going to solve all our problems. 

 

 

 

 

 

[An Sionnach]

2 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...it was great to have Vardy back in the team, but let's no kid ourselves that he is the answer to our ills!!!

  Many times he has been left isolated up the top of the pitch unable to influence the game in anyway. We have struggled and  have gone through slumps with him in the team. No doubt the team would have had a lift from Vardy being back but he is not going to solve all our problems. 

 

 

 

 

 

It was interesting that only Daka and Lookman figured out of all our recent signings. Albrighton, Vardy, Schmiecal and Amartey were survivors from the championship team and Barnes, KDH and Thomas are from the academy.. Perez, Soumare, Bertrand ,Vestergaard were not used . Maddison, Pereira, Souyuncu and Tielemans predate Rodgers. All those who think the transfer market is going to make us substantially better ought to think again.

[The Year Of The Fox]

2 hours ago, Smashing-Pumpkin said:

Discussions like these really boil down to this for me.

 

At some point, a team cant keep moving forwards. It is bound to regress through a combination of factors, and then needs to be rebuilt in order to move forwards again. The only other thing that could happen is the team bobs along at a consistently average level, and then people will question why the team isnt moving forwards or can someone take the team "to the next level".

 

The question then becomes, is the current manager the right manager to rebuild the team, or do you need someone else to do it.

 

And I think thats where we are with Rodgers.

 

Given his CV, given what hes already achieved, and given that theres no real indication he has lost the dressing room, im not sure why there would be such a clamour to remove Rodgers. Unless you had someone in mind that was definitely better and realistic, and I think those options are limited.

 

Changing the manager just for the sake of change, or off the back of a few months worth of downturned performances doesnt make sense to me. I get that weve had downward periods towards the end of seasons under Rodgers but when you treat the seasons as a whole, theyve been good.

 

But its the way of football now. Managers have a very short shelf life and fans get bored easily. They demand more.

 

Its just that the default position then always becomes "swap the manager for someone else". And sure, this will probably give the team a lift for a few games, maybe a couple of months. Would we actually be BETTER off in the long term? who knows, probably not.

 

So thats how i feel about it. I feel sometimes you just have to suck up a bad period. Losing is something you sign up for as part of the deal as a fan.

 

Id keep Rodgers until it was obvious he had either lost the dressing room, lost his own ability and philosophy in the way Mourinho seems to have done, or that a signficantly AND realistic option was available, and by that I dont mean someone like Potter just for the sake of change.

Mancini gets sacked later this month- would you have him over Rodgers? 

[CrispinLA in Texas]

4 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

It was interesting that only Daka and Lookman figured out of all our recent signings. Albrighton, Vardy, Schmiecal and Amartey were survivors from the championship team and Barnes, KDH and Thomas are from the academy.. Perez, Soumare, Bertrand ,Vestergaard were not used . Maddison, Pereira, Souyuncu and Tielemans predate Rodgers. All those who think the transfer market is going to make us substantially better ought to think again.

Put it like that and Brendan transfers look really poor. We're relying on our old guard and our Academy players.

What about Fofana, was he a Brendan/Congerton signing or a Leicester Recruitment team signing?

[Smashing-Pumpkin]

2 minutes ago, The Year Of The Fox said:

Mancini gets sacked later this month- would you have him over Rodgers? 

I wouldnt replace Rodgers no.

 

I think there are a couple of concerns over Mancini in my opinion. One would be man management, he seems to rile certain characters in a way not dissimilar to Conte. People can interpret this as a good or bad thing but I dont know how he would affect the harmony of the squad.

 

Had lots of domestic success but given his last job was an international job, thats a totally different gig to the day to day management of a club side, the two dont really compare.

 

Hes the kind of person CV wise that we should be looking to attract I would say. Could we ACTUALLY attract him? possibly.

 

But id stick with Rodgers.

[Dames]

If he does end up staying he absolutely cannot have any involvement in transfers. He lost all those rights this summer with those 2 complete duds. 

[An Sionnach]

Just now, CrispinLA in Texas said:

Put it like that and Brendan transfers look really poor. We're relying on our old guard and our Academy players.

What about Fofana, was he a Brendan/Congerton signing or a Leicester Recruitment team signing?

The evidence suggests the latter. Fofana was a unique acquisition. The most expensive teenage defender in PL history I believe. The club must have followed him for a long time to make sure there was no risk.