Brendan Rodgers

[Guest454545]

1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...I believe, what he means is, that the goals are not coming from our build up play, but exceptional individual strikes!!!

Again, though, that's the same for most teams, I think. It's not a stick you can beat Rodgers with. 

[Guest454545]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

Well we were also a long way ahead based in xG last season, so yes there is a clear trend, and this is where xG is useful; when taken over a whole season.

 

If that was the case then why did we concede so many and still create very little. It shows that's we've plenty of quality players and the manager has done a poor job of getting the best from the team as a whole.

Two fifth place finishes and an FA Cup, and he's done a poor job??

[sacreblueits442]

34 minutes ago, Guest454545 said:

Again, though, that's the same for most teams, I think. It's not a stick you can beat Rodgers with. 

....not attempting to beat Rodgers over the head, just an observation!!!

I have said for a long time we fall down in the last third with our decisions and executions. We start to overplay when we are comfortably ahead and we play more passes that we need to in those circumstances. We are just not ruthless enough and Rodgers can see that, and I am sure do not believe that, what he has available, will get it right anytime soon.

[Stadt]

On 05/12/2021 at 19:26, Stadt said:

We look like we don’t actually have a manager. Appallingly coached. Emery would be a massive improvement 

#AOTC

[Stadt]

6 minutes ago, Stadt said:

#AOTC

I said he was shit in 2020 before anybody looks at my other posts regarding Emery  

[dmayne7]

5 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

Two fifth place finishes and an FA Cup, and he's done a poor job??

This season yes. On the whole of course he's done a good job but the form for a season and a half has been pretty fire with the quality of player at his disposal even allowing for the injuries. And amazing that we've never had an injury problem before until the last couple of seasons...

[dmayne7]

5 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

Again, though, that's the same for most teams, I think. It's not a stick you can beat Rodgers with. 

No it absolutely isn't. You clearly don't understand how xG works. 

 

On its own, like any stat, you can twist it to fit with your own viewpoint but in this case it largely backs up the utter dross we've been served for most of the season and despite tonnes of shocking decisions and 50/50 ones going against us, we're still extremely lucky to be where we are in the league.

[BKLFox]

7 minutes ago, dmayne7 said:

This season yes. On the whole of course he's done a good job but the form for a season and a half has been pretty fire with the quality of player at his disposal even allowing for the injuries. And amazing that we've never had an injury problem before until the last couple of seasons...

How much football has been played by every team in the past couple of seasons with little off season time, they are all being pushed to the limit and it won’t settle until after the WC and next season.

[Aus Fox]

The biggest floor in looking at XG is that it does not take into consideration a lot of vital factors including who is given the chance - Wilf Ndidi and Youri Tielemans with the ball 30 yards out and running towards goal, would have the same XG. 
It also doesn’t take into account a teams style of play and how they play to their strengths. 
Chelsea have scored 11 goals from outside the box this season, Crystal Palace have scored 0, so a chance for both these teams will look very different.

It also doesn’t take into account the strengths of a goal keeper a 1:1 with Kasper is a more difficult chance than a 1:1 with Angus Gunn.

It is a vastly unreliable stat to judge any performance as their are too many factors involved in scoring a goal that cannot be accounted for. Context is really important. At the end of the day, the only stat that really matters is how many times you actually put the ball in the back of the net and so far this season only 6 teams have done that more than us. 

[Aus Fox]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

No it absolutely isn't. You clearly don't understand how xG works. 

 

On its own, like any stat, you can twist it to fit with your own viewpoint but in this case it largely backs up the utter dross we've been served for most of the season and despite tonnes of shocking decisions and 50/50 ones going against us, we're still extremely lucky to be where we are in the league.

So if we are lucky to be where we are in the league, who is it below us that deserves to be above us?

[Guest454545]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

This season yes. On the whole of course he's done a good job but the form for a season and a half has been pretty fire with the quality of player at his disposal even allowing for the injuries. And amazing that we've never had an injury problem before until the last couple of seasons...

It's also amazing that Brendan hasn't had an injury crisis like this before either. This is his worst season at any club he's been at in a top division since 2012! 

[Guest454545]

1 hour ago, dmayne7 said:

No it absolutely isn't. You clearly don't understand how xG works. 

 

On its own, like any stat, you can twist it to fit with your own viewpoint but in this case it largely backs up the utter dross we've been served for most of the season and despite tonnes of shocking decisions and 50/50 ones going against us, we're still extremely lucky to be where we are in the league.

You haven't looked at how many players on game actually score multiples of goals then. And you haven't looked at how many goals are actually scored from build up play either. Most goals are scored in 3 passes or less, I believe

[sacreblueits442]

14 minutes ago, Guest454545 said:

It's also amazing that Brendan hasn't had an injury crisis like this before either. This is his worst season at any club he's been at in a top division since 2012! 

....not surre @Ric Flairwould support that contention!!!

Taken from an article when he was at Liverpool:

Brendan Rodgers reveals Liverpool injury problems

By Liam Apicella, Features Editor | 8y

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has claimed that he will have just 17 players available for the Premier League's festive fixtures.

Jose Enrique, Steven Gerrard and Daniel Sturridge are all ruled out with injuries, while young defender Jon Flanagan could also be forced to spend some time on the sidelines with a hamstring complaint.

With those absentees in mind, Rodgers has conceded that his squad is currently "thin on the ground".

 

"Our squad is very thin at the moment. Seventeen players [are injured], which is unfortunate for us coming into a busy period. We just have to assess young Jon Flanagan," Rodgers told reporters. "Leading into the game against Cardiff he had a tight hamstring for a few days. He was fit enough to start and play; he felt it a little bit in the game so obviously we had to take him off.

"We just need to assess how that is over the next 24 hours. At the moment, none of the guys who have been out have returned, so we're quite thin on the ground."

 

 

Liverpool face Manchester City on Boxing Day, before taking on Chelsea two days later.

 

[Lambert09]

28 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

The biggest floor in looking at XG is that it does not take into consideration a lot of vital factors including who is given the chance - Wilf Ndidi and Youri Tielemans with the ball 30 yards out and running towards goal, would have the same XG. 
It also doesn’t take into account a teams style of play and how they play to their strengths. 
Chelsea have scored 11 goals from outside the box this season, Crystal Palace have scored 0, so a chance for both these teams will look very different.

It also doesn’t take into account the strengths of a goal keeper a 1:1 with Kasper is a more difficult chance than a 1:1 with Angus Gunn.

It is a vastly unreliable stat to judge any performance as their are too many factors involved in scoring a goal that cannot be accounted for. Context is really important. At the end of the day, the only stat that really matters is how many times you actually put the ball in the back of the net and so far this season only 6 teams have done that more than us. 

thank you! i absolutely loathe when people use this as sole evidence of how a team is doing.  

 

it literally ignores tactics. a team that gets a goal and protects the lead rather than pushing for more insnt necessarily a worse team. like athleti for example. 

 

our tactics for years have been to patiently build up and wait for a key opening for vardy. its a game plan. when it doesnt work its bloody horrible to watch but it has been effective for us in the past. of course weve been poor this year but the stats exacerbate the reality. theres not been many games (if any) that we simply havent been in. the only one was forrest 

[Guest454545]

13 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....not surre @Ric Flairwould support that contention!!!

Taken from an article when he was at Liverpool:

Brendan Rodgers reveals Liverpool injury problems

By Liam Apicella, Features Editor | 8y

Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers has claimed that he will have just 17 players available for the Premier League's festive fixtures.

Jose Enrique, Steven Gerrard and Daniel Sturridge are all ruled out with injuries, while young defender Jon Flanagan could also be forced to spend some time on the sidelines with a hamstring complaint.

With those absentees in mind, Rodgers has conceded that his squad is currently "thin on the ground".

 

"Our squad is very thin at the moment. Seventeen players [are injured], which is unfortunate for us coming into a busy period. We just have to assess young Jon Flanagan," Rodgers told reporters. "Leading into the game against Cardiff he had a tight hamstring for a few days. He was fit enough to start and play; he felt it a little bit in the game so obviously we had to take him off.

"We just need to assess how that is over the next 24 hours. At the moment, none of the guys who have been out have returned, so we're quite thin on the ground."

 

 

Liverpool face Manchester City on Boxing Day, before taking on Chelsea two days later.

 

I mean, that's one game. I looked that up. That was in the middle of their nearly-winning-the league season, and they had a pretty consistent squad that year. Sturridge was second top scorer. Gerrard looked like he played most games. Don't know about Jose Enrique. I'm not saying Rodgers never had injured players. I'm saying he's never had a crisis like the one you're having. Players get injured. That's the game. But the long term injuries all at once that you are experiencing is not something that you can see in any of his previous teams. Certainly not with us at Celtic in his two and a half years in Scotland. 

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

When I look back in hindsight - with the depleted squad we had for large parts of the season (particularly in defence) Brendan did well to steer the ship to mid table. You can see the difference now when there is a healthy competition for places and we are getting our best players back to fitness.

 

I’m also not convinced the injury problems were all Brendan’s fault. The football club as a whole, yes (and the situation and external pressures) of which Brendan is a key employee. Unless anyone can convince me otherwise. 

[Ric Flair]

6 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

I mean, that's one game. I looked that up. That was in the middle of their nearly-winning-the league season, and they had a pretty consistent squad that year. Sturridge was second top scorer. Gerrard looked like he played most games. Don't know about Jose Enrique. I'm not saying Rodgers never had injured players. I'm saying he's never had a crisis like the one you're having. Players get injured. That's the game. But the long term injuries all at once that you are experiencing is not something that you can see in any of his previous teams. Certainly not with us at Celtic in his two and a half years in Scotland. 

Rodgers had horrendous injury problems at Liverpool and Celtic. Ask @Muzzy_Larsson

[sylofox]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Rodgers had horrendous injury problems at Liverpool and Celtic. Ask @Muzzy_Larsson

Suggesting its partly due to his training methods. Or bringing players back before they are properly fit again.

[Guest454545]

23 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Rodgers had horrendous injury problems at Liverpool and Celtic. Ask @Muzzy_Larsson

I'm a 30 year Celtic supporter. We had injuries. Just like we're having now with Big Ange. And before Brendan. And after him. But we never had a crisis that lasted half a season like yous. The crocks who were crocked under Brendan were also crocked under Ronny and under Lenny. But on the other hand, Scott Brown was ever present, and Jamie Shooders was never more robust than under Rodgers. Most of our injuries were either having the snot kicked out of us, or the plastic pitch at Livingston. And I looked into the Liverpool claim. Can you point out to me which of his two and a half seasons was blighted by having half a team out injured? 

[CosbehFox]

To really understand xG, you need to look at the graphs over the ninety minutes. 
 

You need the context of the games pattern within 90 minutes to see if there’s a problem. 
 

Biggest example is v Palace and Brentford at 2-0, you ain’t chasing a game creating chances galore. Wolves away another example where the xG was highly in our favour but Wolves got their early goal and gave us all the ball 

[Finnegan]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

To really understand xG, you need to look at the graphs over the ninety minutes. 
 

You need the context of the games pattern within 90 minutes to see if there’s a problem. 
 

Biggest example is v Palace and Brentford at 2-0, you ain’t chasing a game creating chances galore. Wolves away another example where the xG was highly in our favour but Wolves got their early goal and gave us all the ball 

 

I've banged this drum before so I apologise for being boring but I literally work in data and statistics, it's my day job. 

 

Trying to get managers to engage with and understand performance indicators is one of the biggest challenges of my job. 

 

xG is a terrific indicator but not only is it chronically misunderstood, its also given too much weight independently, as generally are most stats when obsessed over. Usually you need to look at a lot of different indicators all in context to get proper value out of them and understand the synergy between them.

 

People hear football analysts bang on about xG and they expect it to be an all encompassing mega stat that sums up every game, so they end up getting frustrated when they see a match and their idea of how it unfolded doesn't marry up with this indicator's outcome and so they start getting cynical about it. I see it all the time at work. 

 

It's never so straightforward. 

[sacreblueits442]

8 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

I mean, that's one game. I looked that up. That was in the middle of their nearly-winning-the league season, and they had a pretty consistent squad that year. Sturridge was second top scorer. Gerrard looked like he played most games. Don't know about Jose Enrique. I'm not saying Rodgers never had injured players. I'm saying he's never had a crisis like the one you're having. Players get injured. That's the game. But the long term injuries all at once that you are experiencing is not something that you can see in any of his previous teams. Certainly not with us at Celtic in his two and a half years in Scotland. 

....the article said that he had seventeen players unavailable at that moment!!!

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

I'm a 30 year Celtic supporter. We had injuries. Just like we're having now with Big Ange. And before Brendan. And after him. But we never had a crisis that lasted half a season like yous. The crocks who were crocked under Brendan were also crocked under Ronny and under Lenny. But on the other hand, Scott Brown was ever present, and Jamie Shooders was never more robust than under Rodgers. Most of our injuries were either having the snot kicked out of us, or the plastic pitch at Livingston. And I looked into the Liverpool claim. Can you point out to me which of his two and a half seasons was blighted by having half a team out injured? 

I'll take your word on Celtic then, but as @Muzzy_Larsson has said on a number of occasions, his handling of players at times was suspect and you got lots of injuries. You pair can debate that, I do have a vast knowledge of many aspects of football but I'm relying on those closer to past events as well.

 

In regards to Liverpool, there's evidence out there. Prior to his arrival at Liverpool they'd had 20 injuries in 2010/11 and 18 injuries in 2011/12.

 

Rodgers came in in 2012/13 and the number of injuries started to increase year on year, which is what we've seen at Leicester. 2012/13 - 21 injuries, 2013/14 - 23 injuries and 2014/15 - 33 injuries. The season he left 2015/16 - they got 31 injuries in total and 7 of those were in the first 2 months he was still there.

 

Klopp is another manager who has been accused of his teams getting a lot of injuries due to the intensity in which they train and play. I suppose its the nature of the beast and I can accept that to a certain degree but when it's as sustained as we have seen stretching well over a year then it becomes very difficult to ignore and I don't think its right to simply assume that it will eventually improve without making a significant change.

 

I do think we are now making changes, you can see how he is treating those with persistent injuries or who have come back from long injuries differently to how they did before. I'm more than happy to acknowledge that and hopefully that leads to an improvement over time. We are close to appointing a new medical head too, so it was evidently clear the one who was here less than a year has been considered a failure.

[BKLFox]

10 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

....the article said that he had seventeen players unavailable at that moment!!!

It also says he had seventeen players available at that moment 🤷‍♂️ 

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

It also says he had seventeen players available at that moment 🤷‍♂️ 

From my research I think it was they had 17 available as that season they had 23 seperate injuries all season so to have 17 out all at the same time seems incorrect.