Brendan Rodgers

[An Sionnach]

Castagne/Justin and Fofana are the only really successful incomers in his entire tenure. Perhaps Lookman will go onto be that. Daka may succeed but never as a lone striker. It is a pretty average record for a top manager. Entirely his fault? Probably not. His strength has been making our players believe in themselves and play to their full potential but that is beginning to fade. Sometimes though players have to motivate themselves and that is down to character. KDH has set an example with this , it needs to rub off on some of the others.

[indierich06]

2 hours ago, oadby.fox said:

Maybe some out there are of this view but I feel that most acknowledge his achievements regarding the two decent runs he has had in both seasons. The problem is that he doesn’t seem at all capable of recreating that form and developing the team further. Perhaps that is also down to him - who knows? Given that the best runs he’s had are two isolated starts at the beginning of both of those seasons, people begin to (righty imo) question his credibility as one of the highest paid and therefore supposedly best managers in the world.

 

Before he arrived, the fifth place finish would’ve been fairly impressive but many of the criticisms acknowledge that really we should’ve at least finished fourth in both of those seasons. That’s not entitlement, that’s just seeing it through and over the line. Losing out on the CL two years in a row from a fantastic position was deflating and we probably lost out on many transfer opportunities as a result. There were poor performances from players in both seasons but I also remember some horrendous tactical tinkering, substitutions and selections. The mentality was generally pants and he has to take some of the blame for this but he is rarely ever accountable. 

With regards to the FA cup, yes he did well to win it but when I look back at the games, I don’t see what he alone has done as being some kind of master class. He did well, we had a fairly easy route to the final and then we’ve managed to hang on for our lives in the final and score a screamer. Yes, he did well to help guide us to win it but was it a managerial master class of epic proportions that will buy you years of time? No, not in my opinion and league performances have already been awful for one and a half seasons continually (plus the other half from 2019/20). 
 

As for Europe, good wins? We were easily outclassed by a very average Prague side in the first knockout round. Yeah, we played well against Braga and Athens well in the group stages but to me, the campaign overall was a failure. This season, we went one worse and got knocked out at the group stage. We lost to teams far below us in terms of quality and we threw points away against Napoli. Given a run in the Europa was the aim for this season, he again failed miserably. The conference was a golden chance for him to reclaim some credibility but even the run to the semi was fraught with issues. But for a brief period against Rennes/Eindhoven, we generally played quite badly and we were lucky to not go out against Rennes after the referee missed the penalty. That’s exactly why people see the run as nothing to shout about, dumped out of the Europa by third rate sides, luckily into the Europa conference to salvage something, play awfully for the entire run and scrape through with narrow wins and bad refereeing. Perhaps I could be accused of having a pessimistic view but we never looked like winning the conference league despite how much we all would’ve enjoyed it. 
 

For me, the sign of a great manager is one that is able to be flexible and turn things around when things aren’t going their way. Whether that’s finding a new system for the players at your disposal or getting players back into form and confident again. Rodgers has struggled to maintain high standards even when players are on top for prolonged periods as evidenced by both collapses. But, for me, the biggest worry is his inability to continue to develop the side, instil a fighting mentality and work with what he’s got to get the best out of them.
 

The idea that an entire rebuild is needed is just to save face. New players are needed but he’s just signed five last summer alone and apart from Lookman and occasionally Daka, the rest have never had a look in at all. He’s had the opportunity to add to the squad in my view but he deems the players he has brought in to be even worse than what was already here as back up. That’s also forgetting Perez and Praet, the former was once a favourite of his but now can’t seem to buy a game. If it is to do with the players and not him as he keeps saying, then why are so many of his new signings so far behind in the pecking order? Why have so many players also regressed under his tenure? This does point in the direction that maybe he just took over at the right time and his ideas have a certain expiry date.

Yeah this sums it up for me. On paper you'd say he was going a good job - a lot of mentions of 'two 5th places and a European semi final!' - but you're right in that it doesn't tell the whole story. 

[Dahnsouff]

58 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

If I enter a 200m race and lead it at 100m it means nothing if I finish 5th.

 

That having been said, yes we did look exhausted towards the end of the season. Exhaustion because he ran the players into the ground, rotating just one or two players a game gives you 4 on / 1 off…. Or taking off key players when you’re winning giving a bit of rest.

 

I said it at the time, it’s not revisionist, he didn’t manage our fitness or rotation during those seasons (or since). He bills himself as a master tactician and coach and misses the very obvious.

Depends if your short term aim was to get to 100m first, the fact you later run out of gas at the line does not nullify the fact you met your original goals.

Disappointing? Sure, damn right, but objectivity and context is required. 
 

Again, you do not address the quality of the squad, when we run out of gas, we must be able to rely on the squad to reinvigorate our XI, yet we could not, as they were to much of a drop is quality.

[gerblod]

4 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

Wasn't Rodgers responsible for those drubbings? Or is the manager only responsible for the bad stuff that happens?

No - the team performed the drubbings. And, at those points, morale was high. Now we're getting beaten by any team with the determination and awareness to work on weaknesses that haven't been remedied. It's now a question of belief - the individual players self-belief, their belief in each other and their belief in Rodgers. As personable as he is, the tactical mistakes, his selection of underperforming individuals and his weird substitutions (often taking pressure off the opposition) are having a deleterious effect on the team. 

 

And, significantly, the chance to improve the defence and midfield has been squandered last summer. If Rodgers had those three transfers imposed on him then I'd apologise, but I wouldn't apologise for berating him on fielding them before they were match worthy.

 

It's difficult to quantify how subtle the shift has been, but the team needs to sustain performance for more than a high ranking at season's end. The club is extending its capacity and I'm sure has targets/ambitions to raise its profile in English and European football. Filling those seats will only happen if people have a hope of seeing attractive football.

 

United judge failure as sixth place - and it's a badly run club in spite of its support. I'd hope we would demonstrate that our model is better than any of those monied clubs. But it needs to be reflected in performances.

[gerblod]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

Very good post and that's the reality isn't it. Yes, we suffered some crucial injuries as all teams do but, when you look at who we had as replacements, compared with most of our counterparts, were they really that bad? If Evans and Fofana are out, wouldn't many of the other teams now above our 14th position not think that Soyuncu, Armarty and Vestergaard, all internationals, would be reasonable stand ins? Are they all that bad or is playing Vestergaard in a high line or Soyuncu on the extreme left of a three contributory factors in their downfall. Rodgers didn't even trust Armarty at first and would use Ndidi which would then weaken our midfield as Mendy was out of favour and banished from the squad. He even tried Castagne to laughable effect in the tv studios.

 

Should Rodgers not know the strengths and weaknesses of his players and alter tactics accordingly? If you perceive you have a weak defence, why only protect it with a 2 man midfield at times against teams like West Ham who have  recent history of overrunning you there?

 

As for the set peice issues or the persistence with zonal marking until recently, well it's been done to death and quite frankly, for a manager of Rodgers supposed reputation, it's inexcusable! We sometimes laugh or sneer at names like Pulis or Alladyce, but do you not think they'd have found a solution to it? Repetative,  boring hard work would have been their order of the day every day until the message got drilled home and has become second nature. So what did our coaching staff do, do they even know what to do? It really doesn't look like it still! Well Fofana, Evans and JJ are back, no real mind-blowing improvement so it can't be that realistically can it.

 

The whole thing has been a debacle for 12 months now, we've all seen the tepid, dull and dire product on the pitch. Rodgers seemingly only knows one way and regardless of who is bought in the summer, he's going to train them with the same mantras. Players at times rightly have to take some blame but there's a reason why some of these players, who we have witnessed with our own eyes as being capable of playing free-flowing attacking football are not doing it any more. Not all of them can have lost their talents. They have been subjected to Rodgers football philosophy radicalisation, micro-managed and often played out of their best positions to service his fantasies. He really is poor and has been found out. The problem is that it's been so long since we've seen such football from these players, it has become too easy to blame them and accept the belief that a revamp will bring the good times back. It really won't, it's just not that simple. 

[5waller5]

15 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Depends if your short term aim was to get to 100m first, the fact you later run out of gas at the line does not nullify the fact you met your original goals.

Disappointing? Sure, damn right, but objectivity and context is required. 
 

Again, you do not address the quality of the squad, when we run out of gas, we must be able to rely on the squad to reinvigorate our XI, yet we could not, as they were to much of a drop is quality.

 

The first 11 v second 11 squad qualify yes …. Which is why I specifically mentioned minor regular changes giving a game or 1/2 hr rest here and there to key players.

 

This is a major weakness of BR, he runs the first 11 into the ground.

Edited 10 May 2022 by 5waller5

[Tommy Fresh]

13 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Depends if your short term aim was to get to 100m first, the fact you later run out of gas at the line does not nullify the fact you met your original goals.

Disappointing? Sure, damn right, but objectivity and context is required. 
 

Again, you do not address the quality of the squad, when we run out of gas, we must be able to rely on the squad to reinvigorate our XI, yet we could not, as they were to much of a drop is quality.

Running out of 'gas' especially when looking at the 19/20 season is interesting. We had a huge break because of Covid, as did everyone else so I'd argue when it restarted everyone was starting from scratch all probably a little bit rusty. 

Look at the Bournemouth result for instance, that game was comfortable he made unnecessary changes in personel and tactics leading to us collapsing in the second half. 

Edited 10 May 2022 by Tommy Fresh

[5waller5]

12 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Depends if your short term aim was to get to 100m first, the fact you later run out of gas at the line does not nullify the fact you met your original goals.

Disappointing? Sure, damn right, but objectivity and context is required. 
 

Again, you do not address the quality of the squad, when we run out of gas, we must be able to rely on the squad to reinvigorate our XI, yet we could not, as they were to much of a drop is quality.

Also, sorry but objectivity is required. Who would possibly enter a 200m race to win the first 100m??

 

This is a measure of how far you are having to stretch logic to defend BR

[Dahnsouff]

Just now, 5waller5 said:

Also, sorry but objectivity is required. Who would possibly enter a 200m race to win the first 100m??

 

This is a measure of how far you are having to stretch logic to defend BR

I guess what I failed to express was that getting a good 100m does not fully undo the failure to meet your (new) targets at 200m, especially as we wanted to get into Europe that season (not 4th) before the season started, we did get Europe but failed to get (new target of) 4th which looked like it was sure to happen

 

This brings me back to poor squad depth/quality

[gerblod]

3 hours ago, Nalis said:

The current criticisms of Rodgers are warranted but what I find bizarre is that a small section of our fans want to discredit him from any of his achievements since joining the club, as if he just fluked the 1st half of the seasons 19-20 and 20-21 seasons, our fa cup win and our wins in europe.

I dislike dissing him. I like the guy and like Claudio he was in the hot seat when we won the second 'unwinnable' title. Being a good or great manager always has an element of kidology and the trick is to keep the environment where self-belief is riding high. He's not sustained that primary job. He seems to have lost his team troubleshooting guide and only has his mantra of excuses to turn to. I support Leicester - not BR.

[messerschmitt]

2 hours ago, oadby.fox said:

Maybe some out there are of this view but I feel that most acknowledge his achievements regarding the two decent runs he has had in both seasons. The problem is that he doesn’t seem at all capable of recreating that form and developing the team further. Perhaps that is also down to him - who knows? Given that the best runs he’s had are two isolated starts at the beginning of both of those seasons, people begin to (righty imo) question his credibility as one of the highest paid and therefore supposedly best managers in the world.

 

Before he arrived, the fifth place finish would’ve been fairly impressive but many of the criticisms acknowledge that really we should’ve at least finished fourth in both of those seasons. That’s not entitlement, that’s just seeing it through and over the line. Losing out on the CL two years in a row from a fantastic position was deflating and we probably lost out on many transfer opportunities as a result. There were poor performances from players in both seasons but I also remember some horrendous tactical tinkering, substitutions and selections. The mentality was generally pants and he has to take some of the blame for this but he is rarely ever accountable. 

With regards to the FA cup, yes he did well to win it but when I look back at the games, I don’t see what he alone has done as being some kind of master class. He did well, we had a fairly easy route to the final and then we’ve managed to hang on for our lives in the final and score a screamer. Yes, he did well to help guide us to win it but was it a managerial master class of epic proportions that will buy you years of time? No, not in my opinion and league performances have already been awful for one and a half seasons continually (plus the other half from 2019/20). 
 

As for Europe, good wins? We were easily outclassed by a very average Prague side in the first knockout round. Yeah, we played well against Braga and Athens well in the group stages but to me, the campaign overall was a failure. This season, we went one worse and got knocked out at the group stage. We lost to teams far below us in terms of quality and we threw points away against Napoli. Given a run in the Europa was the aim for this season, he again failed miserably. The conference was a golden chance for him to reclaim some credibility but even the run to the semi was fraught with issues. But for a brief period against Rennes/Eindhoven, we generally played quite badly and we were lucky to not go out against Rennes after the referee missed the penalty. That’s exactly why people see the run as nothing to shout about, dumped out of the Europa by third rate sides, luckily into the Europa conference to salvage something, play awfully for the entire run and scrape through with narrow wins and bad refereeing. Perhaps I could be accused of having a pessimistic view but we never looked like winning the conference league despite how much we all would’ve enjoyed it. 
 

For me, the sign of a great manager is one that is able to be flexible and turn things around when things aren’t going their way. Whether that’s finding a new system for the players at your disposal or getting players back into form and confident again. Rodgers has struggled to maintain high standards even when players are on top for prolonged periods as evidenced by both collapses. But, for me, the biggest worry is his inability to continue to develop the side, instil a fighting mentality and work with what he’s got to get the best out of them.
 

The idea that an entire rebuild is needed is just to save face. New players are needed but he’s just signed five last summer alone and apart from Lookman and occasionally Daka, the rest have never had a look in at all. He’s had the opportunity to add to the squad in my view but he deems the players he has brought in to be even worse than what was already here as back up. That’s also forgetting Perez and Praet, the former was once a favourite of his but now can’t seem to buy a game. If it is to do with the players and not him as he keeps saying, then why are so many of his new signings so far behind in the pecking order? Why have so many players also regressed under his tenure? This does point in the direction that maybe he just took over at the right time and his ideas have a certain expiry date.

I agree with a lot of what you say here. Let's not kid ourselves there are a lot of far worse managers out there that wouldn't have got us anywhere near where we've been.

At the same time there's a part of me that thinks someone else could have done better.

 

With regards to the FA cup, yes we won it under him, but as I remember, although Teilemans ends up with the credit, it was one player who produced the effort and heroics to get us to the final and that was Iheanacho, a player Rodgers doesn't seem to rate.

My biggest criticism is we have gone from being one of the most attractive side to watch to one almost comically bad.

lots of our problems come back to this. We don't create much. It's difficult when your creative players don't have the ball. We have 63% possession, I swear 60% of it is in our own half. The other 3% is us trying to go forward when the opposition have had time for a cup of tea before walking back to their defensive position.

We are just wasting our own time. Lets not kid ourselves, the opposition are just letting us do it. We get no where and just invite a mistake, bad pass or slip and we are under pressure.

 

[sacreblueits442]

57 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

KDH has set an example with this , it needs to rub off on some of the others.

....another game at left back should put a stop to that kind of thinking!!!

[ealingfox]

Not good

 

 

[Guest ttfn]

3 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Not good

 

 

Michael Cox had a good quote the other day on the Totally Football Show when talking about the Man City v Real Madrid tie:

 

“Managers determine the shape of the game and players determine the outcome”.

[sacreblueits442]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Depends if your short term aim was to get to 100m first, the fact you later run out of gas at the line does not nullify the fact you met your original goals.

Disappointing? Sure, damn right, but objectivity and context is required. 
 

Again, you do not address the quality of the squad, when we run out of gas, we must be able to rely on the squad to reinvigorate our XI, yet we could not, as they were to much of a drop is quality.

...sometimes I think you enjoy the " devil's advocate " stance too much!!!

 A weird response to a reasonable question.

[HankMarvin]

7 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Not good

 

 

so is this like a reverse Brighton last year.

everyone tipped them to do well as they underperformed but by the end of the season we are likely to have over performed our expected points so will be relegation favourites.

 

In 2020/21, Brighton underperformed Expected Points by the largest amount of any Premier League club since our records began:

Actual Points: 41
Expected Points: 61.47
Difference: -20.47

[Nalis]

3 hours ago, oadby.fox said:

Maybe some out there are of this view but I feel that most acknowledge his achievements regarding the two decent runs he has had in both seasons. The problem is that he doesn’t seem at all capable of recreating that form and developing the team further. Perhaps that is also down to him - who knows? Given that the best runs he’s had are two isolated starts at the beginning of both of those seasons, people begin to (righty imo) question his credibility as one of the highest paid and therefore supposedly best managers in the world.

 

Before he arrived, the fifth place finish would’ve been fairly impressive but many of the criticisms acknowledge that really we should’ve at least finished fourth in both of those seasons. That’s not entitlement, that’s just seeing it through and over the line. Losing out on the CL two years in a row from a fantastic position was deflating and we probably lost out on many transfer opportunities as a result. There were poor performances from players in both seasons but I also remember some horrendous tactical tinkering, substitutions and selections. The mentality was generally pants and he has to take some of the blame for this but he is rarely ever accountable. 

With regards to the FA cup, yes he did well to win it but when I look back at the games, I don’t see what he alone has done as being some kind of master class. He did well, we had a fairly easy route to the final and then we’ve managed to hang on for our lives in the final and score a screamer. Yes, he did well to help guide us to win it but was it a managerial master class of epic proportions that will buy you years of time? No, not in my opinion and league performances have already been awful for one and a half seasons continually (plus the other half from 2019/20). 
 

As for Europe, good wins? We were easily outclassed by a very average Prague side in the first knockout round. Yeah, we played well against Braga and Athens well in the group stages but to me, the campaign overall was a failure. This season, we went one worse and got knocked out at the group stage. We lost to teams far below us in terms of quality and we threw points away against Napoli. Given a run in the Europa was the aim for this season, he again failed miserably. The conference was a golden chance for him to reclaim some credibility but even the run to the semi was fraught with issues. But for a brief period against Rennes/Eindhoven, we generally played quite badly and we were lucky to not go out against Rennes after the referee missed the penalty. That’s exactly why people see the run as nothing to shout about, dumped out of the Europa by third rate sides, luckily into the Europa conference to salvage something, play awfully for the entire run and scrape through with narrow wins and bad refereeing. Perhaps I could be accused of having a pessimistic view but we never looked like winning the conference league despite how much we all would’ve enjoyed it. 
 

For me, the sign of a great manager is one that is able to be flexible and turn things around when things aren’t going their way. Whether that’s finding a new system for the players at your disposal or getting players back into form and confident again. Rodgers has struggled to maintain high standards even when players are on top for prolonged periods as evidenced by both collapses. But, for me, the biggest worry is his inability to continue to develop the side, instil a fighting mentality and work with what he’s got to get the best out of them.
 

The idea that an entire rebuild is needed is just to save face. New players are needed but he’s just signed five last summer alone and apart from Lookman and occasionally Daka, the rest have never had a look in at all. He’s had the opportunity to add to the squad in my view but he deems the players he has brought in to be even worse than what was already here as back up. That’s also forgetting Perez and Praet, the former was once a favourite of his but now can’t seem to buy a game. If it is to do with the players and not him as he keeps saying, then why are so many of his new signings so far behind in the pecking order? Why have so many players also regressed under his tenure? This does point in the direction that maybe he just took over at the right time and his ideas have a certain expiry date.

I agree with your points for the future though we both know thats not what I was talking about, and some others that I havent really made in the first place either that I'll let you have but implying the FA Cup run was fortunate is a bit of a stretch and you can literally argue that a team were fortunate in any cup run by using certain snippets of fact.

 

For example, France were regarded by most as being the best team in 2018 and deservedly won the world cup.

 

However, if you wanted to steer things towards making it look like they were fortunate, one could say they won a group with a poor Australian team on the decline, a Danish team who arent a patch on the current team and a Peru team who have been to the world cup in a generation or two. One could also say they went on to beat a team shot on confidence (Argentina), Uruguay thanks to a goalkeeping horror show and the perennial knockout tournament chokers Belgium, all followed by a final against a wrecked Croatia team who played 120 minutes in their previous 3 games.

[An Away Move]

Patently untrue from Rodgers and smacks of vanity,

 

“What we have done in three years is gone from a team that is maybe happy to stay in the Premier League to one that is disappointed that we don’t win a trophy,” Rodgers said. “That shows you the mindset change and the shift in mentality. We need to address that in the summer and reintroduce that hunger back into the team.” 
 

Facts for Brendan - we had a winning mentality before you arrived and were not just happy surviving. The guy is a vain, lying bullshitter. 

Edited 10 May 2022 by An Away Move

[Dahnsouff]

19 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

...sometimes I think you enjoy the " devil's advocate " stance too much!!!

 A weird response to a reasonable question.

I have heard this before, maybe there is something in it   

However, I was not trying to be a contrarian, maybe I misunderstood, in what way was it a weird response?

[sacreblueits442]

2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

I have heard this before, maybe there is something in it   

However, I was not trying to be a contrarian, maybe I misunderstood, in what way was it a weird response?

 

.... your response was pretty much you attempting to underplay an obvious question by concocting a nonsense argument supposedly looking for context. 

[PAPA LAZAROU]

3 hours ago, Guest454545 said:

Out of interest, are you reducing Rodgers tenure to just two games? Because you can go back to the start of this thread to see how different the mood was then. And that was near the end of last season. You'd just got into the final, had not yet won it, and all was rosey in the garden. Then it was all very anti-Rodgers. Then you win the FA Cup, and page 45 or so is a complete contrast to now. It was all how great Rodgers was, and he was building a legacy. Then you missed out on top 4, it gets bad again. Then your best defender gets chopped down pre season and really, your entire year ends there, to be honest. I had a post that wasn't approved that showed that some teams have gone backwards and then come back under a manager the following season. Liverpool was one of the examples. They won the league and then lost their best defender and dropped 30 points the season after. Now look where they are. A single player can have that effect, by addition or subtraction. It's just one of those truths of football. Relegating Rodgers time at Leicester to just two games seems overly reductionist to make a point. This is the worst league season in Brendan Rodgers top flight management career. Wherever he is next season, he's probably going to be back up there again, fighting for the European spots. The question is, will it be at Leicester, or will someone like Southampton or Leeds or whoever, be reaping the benefits?

Not me. I was replying to a poster who was holding up two particular matched where we were outstanding. I was trying to get a balance by saying they were an exception not a rule.

[foxinsocks]

Humming as I walked to the paper shop only to see more of bredans guff in the mercury.

Listen, the only thing that needs freshening up is the manager.

This is just his "it's not down to me" narative.

His posession obsession is stifling creativity and intensity... he has trashed players... yet any poor performance is down to games, injuries, players lacking size  aggression  desire..... his substitutions transmit fear and panic.  He paints us as over achieving and an entitled fan base.

When we boo he says yeah, the players didn't perform....  but we are booing him

 

Chanting Rodgers out is the only way to give him a Ceaușescu moment 

 

Edited 10 May 2022 by foxinsocks

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

The reluctance to cross the ball into a packed box or have a shot when there is half a chance is frustrating and inexcusable.

The players have to take responsibility for their own failure in matches, not being able to up the tempo when chasing a game is both the players and managers fault.

We know first hand that the possession stat is pretty much irrelevant, having won the title with 30-40% possession in many games that season.

Its what you do with the ball when you have it that counts.

We are negative, tentative and the safety first possession game we play is as bad as it gets. 
The lack of drive and spirit is the most disappointing thing for me, losing games with little more than a whimper is embarrassing.

As in any professional sport the buck stops with the coach.

[volpeazzurro]

17 hours ago, An Away Move said:

Patently untrue from Rodgers and smacks of vanity,

 

“What we have done in three years is gone from a team that is maybe happy to stay in the Premier League to one that is disappointed that we don’t win a trophy,” Rodgers said. “That shows you the mindset change and the shift in mentality. We need to address that in the summer and reintroduce that hunger back into the team.” 
 

Facts for Brendan - we had a winning mentality before you arrived and were not just happy surviving. The guy is a vain, lying bullshitter. 

He's a cheeky bugger isn't he! After winning the Premiership and reaching the quarter finals of the Champions League, neither of which he's done, does he really think our team, owners or supporters still looked no higher than Premiership survival? Does he really believe that the almighty Brendan Rodgers is responsible for changing everyone's mindset from being relegation fodder to cup hopefuls? What a deluded egotistical little man he is, a legend in his own lunchtime. 🤣🤡

Edited 11 May 2022 by volpeazzurro

[oadby.fox]

51 minutes ago, Nalis said:

I agree with your points for the future though we both know thats not what I was talking about, and some others that I havent really made in the first place either that I'll let you have but implying the FA Cup run was fortunate is a bit of a stretch and you can literally argue that a team were fortunate in any cup run by using certain snippets of fact.

 

For example, France were regarded by most as being the best team in 2018 and deservedly won the world cup.

 

However, if you wanted to steer things towards making it look like they were fortunate, one could say they won a group with a poor Australian team on the decline, a Danish team who arent a patch on the current team and a Peru team who have been to the world cup in a generation or two. One could also say they went on to beat a team shot on confidence (Argentina), Uruguay thanks to a goalkeeping horror show and the perennial knockout tournament chokers Belgium, all followed by a final against a wrecked Croatia team who played 120 minutes in their previous 3 games.

I agree and mentioned elsewhere after my post that much can be said about cup runs in general in that way. The point was more that they aren’t necessarily indications of managerial greatness. Not to compare apples and oranges too much, but Di Matteo won the CL. Did he do well to win it? Of course he did, is he an elite/top manager? No. 
 

My point isn’t to disregard the achievement entirely from the perspective of the club and reality. It is more to draw attention to whether much of the success can be attributed to BR alone. In particular and with regards to the FA cup, I was just highlighting that the cup run (for me) did nothing to solidify any sense of managerial greatness in BR. I didn’t really see any games where he got them playing better than the sum of their parts. There were no tactical master classes and equally no huge obstacles to overcome. Yes, that happens elsewhere and often in cup runs but it therefore shouldn’t be used to big Rodgers up, as if limping over the line was some insane achievement that only he would be capable of. It was great to finally win the FA cup but I don’t take the run in that competition to illustrate anything particularly amazing about his managing prowess.