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Fox92

Brendan Rodgers

By Fox92, in Leicester City Forum

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4everfox

4everfox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Matt said:

Control the game with possession or possession with purpose? They are two very different things.

 

I imagine you were as pissed off as Rodgers was when we were 3-0 up at HT against West Brom because we weren’t “controlling the game”. He was absolutely livid.

 

It still blows my mind.

I'm personally not a fan of tika taka possession based football. The best I have ever seen Leicester play was when we won the league with the deadliest counter attack in world football, that style is a thing of beauty when it's done properly. I'm not sure why we moved away from that, as it was a major part of our identity. I miss the days when our opponents threw wave after wave of attack at us, and I'd know that we were more likely to score from it then they were. 

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Guest Kopfkino

Guest Kopfkino

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

I'm personally not a fan of tika taka possession based football. The best I have ever seen Leicester play was when we won the league with the deadliest counter attack in world football, that style is a thing of beauty when it's done properly. I'm not sure why we moved away from that, as it was a major part of our identity. I miss the days when our opponents threw wave after wave of attack at us, and I'd know that we were more likely to score from it then they were. 

Did you enjoy it when it had us 18th in the league the season after? Or Did you really just enjoy winning the league?

 

It’s like when people say they enjoyed Brendan’s football in the first half 19/20. Yeah no shit you enjoyed winning 8 games in a row.

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Diffco

Diffco

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Did you enjoy it when it had us 18th in the league the season after? Or Did you really just enjoy winning the league?

 

It’s like when people say they enjoyed Brendan’s football in the first half 19/20. Yeah no shit you enjoyed winning 8 games in a row.

As far as can remember though that wasn't what happened, Claudio tried to change us to possession based football 2016/17 onwards, which mostly failed because the team were incapable of playing like that, minus Kante. Shakespeare came in, we reverted somewhat to type and the counter system helped us get enough points to steer clear of relegation. 

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Matt

Matt

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

We need to be capable of both controlling the game with possession and possession with purpose (I assume you mean in an attacking sense?). There's a time to control a game and then there's a time to attack with intent. 

 

I prefer watching sides that have over 50% possession in most games and would like us to have that as our "template" (as it has been for quite some time now), but when you aren't one of the top sides in the league (which we all know we aren't), you obviously have to find other ways to play because it won't always work. We did that well in 2020/21 away at Man City, Leeds and Arsenal, but we've been married to the same way of playing since the start of last season and it's not always been effective. 

 

I wasn't at all pissed off when we were 3-0 up against West Brom. I was really pleased. Just because I prefer to watch a possession game from the side I follow and don't think changing Rodgers is the solution (at this moment in time, it might be in the future but I don't personally think it is just yet) doesn't mean I don't think there is a time and a place to switch it up or that he gets things wrong. 

I mean possession with purpose, high possession stats are 9 times out 10 nonsense, nonsense football, sideways and backwards, boring, no threat, tedious, it's as negative as it is a team sitting 10 men behind the ball - it's clear to see we struggle to 'break teams down', i'm not being funny but playing this nonsense sideways, backwards, no threat, possession football it's so easy to play against and arguably encourages opposition to put 10 men behind the ball - both awful, negative styles in their own way. 

 

The we make a mistake because we're not good enough to do it and bang the opposition are in. We must be one of the easiest teams in the league to play against at times.

 

Possession with purpose, effective football - That is controlling the game, not possession for possession's sake.

 

The fact Rodgers was so livid at HT against West Brom when were 3-0 tells me alot about Rodgers view of the game and 'philosophy'.

 

He was literally berating the players from the touchline, you could hear him on with it being an empty stadium (Now bare in mind he said before he doesn't like publicly showing his frustration at players), he was kicking water bottles, he proper had it on him, it was a decent game, exciting, positive, but nah, despite being 3-0 up apparently we weren't 'controlling the game'...More tippy tappy sideways movement please! 

 

49 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

I'm personally not a fan of tika taka possession based football. The best I have ever seen Leicester play was when we won the league with the deadliest counter attack in world football, that style is a thing of beauty when it's done properly. I'm not sure why we moved away from that, as it was a major part of our identity. I miss the days when our opponents threw wave after wave of attack at us, and I'd know that we were more likely to score from it then they were. 

Exactly, possession with purpose as I say.

 

I said the other day if we read some of the comments made fawning over the football we've played in recent years we'd have ripped them to shreds in 15/16.

 

Infact we regularly took the piss out of Spurs fans for making literally the same kind of comments we've seen on our own forums in recent years. 

 

There's a hell of alot of football snobbery about. I feel alot of people see anything put 'possession based football' and anti-football, far from it, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

20 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Did you enjoy it when it had us 18th in the league the season after? Or Did you really just enjoy winning the league?

 

It’s like when people say they enjoyed Brendan’s football in the first half 19/20. Yeah no shit you enjoyed winning 8 games in a row.

You do realise playing a certain way doesn't mean you'll be 18th in the league? Likewise playing 'possession based football' doesn't mean we'll be at the higher echelons.

 

Alot of last season's league struggles were based on not handling Europe with League football.

 

Likewise the season after the title win could be blamed on not handling Europe with League football - Not to mention we didn't have the experience back then, the European campaign was at a higher level and we had a good campaign in it.

 

Also I think has to be noted that season Ranieri changed too much, too soon and was the start of the shift to 'possession based football' (Which is adds to me theory someone within the club, the powers that be, give a brief that this is how they want us to play).

 

Edited by Matt
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coolhandfox

coolhandfox

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, filbertway said:

I am excited for the people that still haven't realised what a parasite Rodgers is too a football club, it's gonna be am amazing day for them.

 

He finds a nice host that's plump and juicey, comes in, uses the resources to the max, for a fleeting moment, both are working in perfect unison. Then he continues to max our the resources and suck the innards out whilst reassuring the host that it's fine and it's normal to feel drained. Then he lures in his next victim and repeats.

 

He'll give you the highest highs and then suck the life out of you. On the plus side. Liverpool improved after he left. Celtic improved after he left. We can also improve once he leaves.

Sound like the normal cycle for most management appointments, most managers last  2 years odd then become stale. 

 

i'm sure if we said in 2018 on appoint, he would win the FA Cup and get two 5th places and then get stale and dull we would have taken it.

 

The king is dead, long live the King. 

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4everfox

4everfox

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Did you enjoy it when it had us 18th in the league the season after? Or Did you really just enjoy winning the league?

 

It’s like when people say they enjoyed Brendan’s football in the first half 19/20. Yeah no shit you enjoyed winning 8 games in a row.

No, because we didn't play that style the season after. Ranieri lost the plot. 

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

Did you enjoy it when it had us 18th in the league the season after? Or Did you really just enjoy winning the league?

 

It’s like when people say they enjoyed Brendan’s football in the first half 19/20. Yeah no shit you enjoyed winning 8 games in a row.

I do think the complaints about his style are a bit of a red herring. The only type of football that is going to be more or less universally enjoyed is the type where you score lots of goals and win lots of games. As we have all personally witnessed over the past decade, you can play really exciting possession football but also really shit possession football and the exact same thing is true of direct counter-attacking. Somehow I doubt that if Rodgers' replacement comes in and sets us up to defend deep and hit teams on the break 15/16 style but the downward trend in performances and results continues, everyone's going to be marvelling at what an exciting brand of football we're now playing.

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BigMicky

BigMicky

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, itude said:

It is Rodgers who appears to be doing the same thing over and over again, and seeming to expect a different result. It's very frustrating when many of us can actually see that. But what do you do with someone like that ? It is just compounded by his regular habit of taking no responsibilty for his mistakes, and constantly finding someone, or something else to blame.

Can you provide examples of other managers holding their hands up and saying they got it wrong. I'd love to see examples. 

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Ric Flair

Ric Flair

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Sound like the normal cycle for most management appointments, most managers last  2 years odd then become stale. 

 

i'm sure if we said in 2018 on appoint, he would win the FA Cup and get two 5th places and then get stale and dull we would have taken it.

 

The king is dead, long live the King. 

Another example of the poor decision making at this club where we've extended the managers contract to 5 years and nearly doubled his salary less than a year in to the job. The salary I can understand, the extension by a further 2 years was just ridiculous.

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Guest Kopfkino

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14 minutes ago, Diffco said:

As far as can remember though that wasn't what happened, Claudio tried to change us to possession based football 2016/17 onwards, which mostly failed because the team were incapable of playing like that, minus Kante. Shakespeare came in, we reverted somewhat to type and the counter system helped us get enough points to steer clear of relegation. 


You might think that. Yet, by my calculation average possession in Ranieri’s 25 games and Shakespeare’s 13 games is basically the same. 41.84% for Ranieri’s and 41.96% for Shakespeare. Both being a lower figure than our average The stats are there for anyone to go and look at.

 

18 minutes ago, Matt said:

You do realise playing a certain way doesn't mean you'll be 18th in the league? Likewise playing 'possession based football' doesn't mean we'll be at the higher echelons.

 

Alot of last season's league struggles were based on not handling Europe with League football.

 

Likewise the season after the title win could be blamed on not handling Europe with League football - Not to mention we didn't have the experience back then, the European campaign was at a higher level and we had a good campaign in it.

 

Also I think has to be noted that season Ranieri changed too much, too soon and was the start of the shift to 'possession based football' (Which is adds to me theory someone within the club, the powers that be, give a brief that this is how they want us to play).


Yes I do cos that’s exactly my point. People don’t really care about the style of play, they care whether it’s successful or not. People didn’t enjoy the football in 16/17 (well they might pretend they did now but the forum at the time will say otherwise) because we were 18th. The data tells you your theory is bollocks, we had marginally less possession on average in 16/17 and Ranieri’s possession stats were essentially the same as Shakespeare’s.

 

I said absolutely nothing about the merits of either style of football and where it will mean you finish because I’m not obsessed beyond belief about the style football. The point is only that the style of the football is really secondary to the results of its execution when determining fan enjoyment.

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Guest Kopfkino

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24 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

No, because we didn't play that style the season after. Ranieri lost the plot. 

What’s the evidence that we didn’t play that style? The possession stats above don’t bear it out. Maybe there’s something else that shows how we changed?

 

We just got less good at executing it with different personnel

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Matt

Matt

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:


You might think that. Yet, by my calculation average possession in Ranieri’s 25 games and Shakespeare’s 13 games is basically the same. 41.84% for Ranieri’s and 41.96% for Shakespeare. Both being a lower figure than our average The stats are there for anyone to go and look at.

 


Yes I do cos that’s exactly my point. People don’t really care about the style of play, they care whether it’s successful or not. People didn’t enjoy the football in 16/17 (well they might pretend they did now but the forum at the time will say otherwise) because we were 18th. The data tells you your theory is bollocks, we had marginally less possession on average in 16/17 and Ranieri’s possession stats were essentially the same as Shakespeare’s.

 

I said absolutely nothing about the merits of either style of football and where it will mean you finish because I’m not obsessed beyond belief about the style football. The point is only that the style of the football is really secondary to the results of its execution when determining fan enjoyment.

Not sure I necessarily agree, people keep telling us 8th last season wasn't a bad season, people keep telling us Rodgers is a manager who has one of the highest win rates in our history (Which is being reeled in), yet for the last 2 years (Plus the 2nd half of both the season's before that resulting in a major drop off) many us have been talking about how much the football stinks.

 

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4everfox

4everfox

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

What’s the evidence that we didn’t play that style? The possession stats above don’t bear it out. Maybe there’s something else that shows how we changed?

 

We just got less good at executing it with different personnel

I saw it happen, he had us trying to play out from the back.

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Matt

Matt

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pmcla26 said:

@Matt how would you set the team up to combat the things that you don’t like about the way we play? 

It's not necessarily a bad thing to allow the opposition some possession - certainly as the majority of teams want to play tippy tappy, possession for possession sake football like ourselves, if it's within your own half, camped in front of your own 18 yard box it isn't going to hurt you. You can then attack them, press them, force mistakes. As I say, fast, forward play, with purpose, not aimlessly playing keep ball.

 

Again in 15/16 we were very comfortable with the opposition having the ball.

 

Listen, there's a time and place for all styles, but this tippy tappy, sideways, backwards, negative football being play exclusively is awful.

 

Just mix it up abit. Unfortunately so many teams want to play this way and it makes for such a boring game overall. It's not a problem exclusive to us - although because I obviously watch us more I believe we are more boring than others, worse at it than others and easier to play against than others - because I don't watch other teams as often that's probably not the case, that doesn't mean it's any more acceptable or something I can behind however because I simply can't. It's nonsense.

 

Be the exception to the rule. 

 

We all cringed abit at the 'Fearless' motto at the time but it was right, we were fearless, we're more fearful now.

 

I wanna see us be more ruthless, have abit of shithousery about us, ruffle some feathers, something to get behind.

 

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Corky

Corky

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

Another example of the poor decision making at this club where we've extended the managers contract to 5 years and nearly doubled his salary less than a year in to the job. The salary I can understand, the extension by a further 2 years was just ridiculous.

To be fair, I think time hasn't been kind to that decision. Back then we'd worked hard to get Rodgers in (it seemed like he'd been the one for a long time) and we were in great form and the team was playing very well. His stock was so high and the club panicked to an extent that he might go to Arsenal or Tottenham (not sure really how serious it was). It did make sense to tie him down in case a bigger club came calling and we'd get an excellent compensation fee.

 

I do believe he is the manager they still want but it may come to a point where it can't continue. He needs a good return of points before the World Cup.

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Guest Kopfkino

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29 minutes ago, Matt said:

Not sure I necessarily agree, people keep telling us 8th last season wasn't a bad season, people keep telling us Rodgers is a manager who has one of the highest win rates in our history (Which is being reeled in), yet for the last 2 years (Plus the 2nd half of both the season's before that resulting in a major drop off) many us have been talking about how much the football stinks.

 


Because baselines shift. People are good at relative rather than absolute observations (hence why 30mph feels slower when you’ve been going 80mph down the motorway than when you accelerate up to it from 0).
They got used to us starting seasons as one of the best sides in the league, when you’re top 2/3 at the halfway stage of both seasons spending the next season mid table all year muddling your way through feels a bit meh, it’s just obviously less exciting whatever the style of play. When you’re not doing as well as you were or as well as you expect then people look for things to whinge about and that includes the ‘style’ of football. But also people are still capable of pointing out that bigger picture, 8th is a damn fine season for this football club whilst being mehed out because it has followed a better time.

 

There’s no way to prove it but if we’d just been promoted and played the exact same league season last year, nobody would really complain about the style of football. Maybe some murmurs after defeats but not the obsession that it’s become here now.


But if you can show me more than a smattering of people moaning about the style of football when we won 8 in a row or when we were top in January 2021 then I’ll change my mind. Tbh you personally might well have because I know you’ve been banging on about it for a while and I think it’s deeply entrenched within you. But for most people whinging about style is all about relative performance.

 

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Guest Kopfkino

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28 minutes ago, 4everfox said:

I saw it happen, he had us trying to play out from the back.

So the actual verifiable evidence shows we had slightly lower average possession, slightly lower pass completion, and more long passes per game but you think you watched us play out from the back.


Selective memory is a powerful drug 

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