Premier League 2021/22 Thread

[Sampson]

23 minutes ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

I'm gonna call it here, if you genuinely believe that then you're mental 

Are you really calling me for mental for thinking that:

 

De Bruyne

Aguero

Fernandinho

Kompany

David Silva

 

were all better for ManCity than Yaya Toure? I'm pretty sure pretty much every ManCity fan will tell you they are all greater players than Yaya Toure for the club.

Then there's the likes of Sterling, Zabaleta and probably Bernando Silva by this point who would probably be around the same level of club player as Toure.

 

Seriously just go on their forums, their fans call De Bruyne their greatest ever player almost as much as we do with Vardy and they all think he's been pretty much single-handedly dragging them across the line this season and taking control and dragging them through every big league game in this run in. He's already overtaken everyone else as their GOAT and has probably got another 5 or 6 seasons in him there too. I think every ManCity fan will tell you the idea that Yay Toure or Fernandinho were better ManCity players than him and he doesn't turn up for their big matches is utterly absurd.
 #17 | Kevin De Bruyne - 2021/22 Performances | Page 116 | Bluemoon - the leading Manchester City forum (bluemoon-mcfc.co.uk)

Edited 13 May 2022 by Sampson

[Dan LCFC]

19 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Says a lot about the quality of this league that this lot are 4th.

Top two are immense, best two sides in the world for me, but beyond that... yeah.

 

This Man Utd side will get Europe (shudders) and we've been crap all season yet could get in the top half. Not great.

Edited 13 May 2022 by Dan LCFC

[BKLFox]

19 minutes ago, Sampson said:

In the moment? He's been their star player since they signed him. He'll be remembered as a greater player than Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva and Aguero undoubtedly. Honestly, come back in 10 years time and laugh at thought that Fernandinho would be remembered as a better MaanCity player than De Bruyne.

 

He was their best player basically as soon as he arrived. Won their POTY award in 2015-16 in his first season. Can't believe you're saying he only stood out in 18/19 and this season.

 

19/20 was his best season for starters and probably in the all-time top 5 best ever PL individual seasons - broke all kinds of records for assists and chances created and in 18/19 he spent half the season injured.

 

This "big game" stuff is absolutely baffling to me - De Bruyne has probably won ManCity 20 points this season. He's been dragging them over the line the entire second half of this season.

"always be shouting, enouraging & putting their bodies on the line?" De Bruyne is infamous for being vocal and never shutting up moaning on the pitch exactly like Gerrard. Dunno about Lampard. Lampard especially was infamous for drifting in and out of games and not being defensively very good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I did actually mean 19/20 (not 18/19) which was his best season & the season which he got wider acclaim & not just from his team peers. Kinda suggests he's only been boy wonder for no more than 3 seasons, good in the other yes but not the star as i say he was widely over shadowed by D Silva, Aguero, Hazard, VVD, Kante, Kane etc
You will chuckle & mock with that statement but most of the things you quote come from the past 3yrs ie dragging them over the line this season

As for, "De Bruyne is infamous for being vocal and never shutting up moaning on the pitch"..yep to the referee

Then "Honestly, come back in 10 years time and laugh at thought that Fernandinho would be remembered as a better MaanCity player than De Bruyne."
It's horses for courses they will remember Fernandinho as being the best player in that position but as history clouds judgement yes i'd imagine people will rememebr De Bruyne because they mostly remember the flair players.

I'm still of the opinion its about longevity, KDH has made me take notice of him in that higher regard since 19/20 (again not saying he was shite prior he just elevated then) he is 30 now, Fernandinho, Kompany, Toure, Aguero, D Silva all spent 10yrs or so at the very top with Man City. 
If sat in the pub & someone blurted out who's been the best Man C player yes KDH will be star because he's in everyones head right here right now but if they sat & really thought about who their Top 10 most important players have been in the past 15yrs of course KDH will be in there but would he be #1, a quick google on many forums, feeds & columns suggest not & not in top 5
 

[Sampson]

15 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

I did actually mean 19/20 (not 18/19) which was his best season & the season which he got wider acclaim & not just from his team peers. Kinda suggests he's only been boy wonder for no more than 3 seasons, good in the other yes but not the star as i say he was widely over shadowed by D Silva, Aguero, Hazard, VVD, Kante, Kane etc
You will chuckle & mock with that statement but most of the things you quote come from the past 3yrs ie dragging them over the line this season

As for, "De Bruyne is infamous for being vocal and never shutting up moaning on the pitch"..yep to the referee

Then "Honestly, come back in 10 years time and laugh at thought that Fernandinho would be remembered as a better MaanCity player than De Bruyne."
It's horses for courses they will remember Fernandinho as being the best player in that position but as history clouds judgement yes i'd imagine people will rememebr De Bruyne because they mostly remember the flair players.

I'm still of the opinion its about longevity, KDH has made me take notice of him in that higher regard since 19/20 (again not saying he was shite prior he just elevated then) he is 30 now, Fernandinho, Kompany, Toure, Aguero, D Silva all spent 10yrs or so at the very top with Man City. 
If sat in the pub & someone blurted out who's been the best Man C player yes KDH will be star because he's in everyones head right here right now but if they sat & really thought about who their Top 10 most important players have been in the past 15yrs of course KDH will be in there but would he be #1, a quick google on many forums, feeds & columns suggest not & not in top 5
 

Can you please link some of these? Or were all these forums feeds and columns from years ago. Because all I hear from ManCity fans is them calling them their GOAT and that’s all they seem to say on their forum.

 

It’s silly to say KDB isn’t in their top 5 players in the last 15 years at this point. And he certainly will be remembered as such in the future and that has nothing to do with his position.

 

It’s nothing to do with position. KDB basically already is considered the GOAT by ManCity fans, despite having a good 5-6 years left there most likely. That’s not “oh we remember him better” he’s dragging them to a league title right now, he’s played over the past 3 or 4 seasons to a level no midfielder in Premier League history ever has. It’s not just his numbers, his range of passing is as good as we’ve ever seen in this country and he’s the complete midfielder, he’s brilliant defensively and such a physical presence too.  Fernandinho was a very very good player but he clearly isn’t on the same level as De Bruyne. 
 

That’s 100% nostalgia bias saying the likes of Fernandinho, Kompany and Toure spent 10 years at the top. Kompany and Fernando notoriously took 2 or 3 seasons to settle in and Fernandinho especially was notoriously a bit of a scape goat in his early years.
 

Yaya Toure was a very good but notoriously erratic player but largely only had 1 season where he elevated himself and was consistently Man City’s stand out player.

De Bruyne has been their best player since they signed him in 2015. He’s already won Man City’s POTY award 3 times more than any other player you mentioned.

 

Honestly have no idea why you only noticed de Bruyne since 2019, when in 17/18 he was unreal and only lost PFA POTY to Salah’s record breaking season.

Edited 13 May 2022 by Sampson

[J. James]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

And again, all that is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. The fact De Bruyne stands out as the talisman in a side who have "all the best players" is not a slight against him.

Hey Sampson, hope you got lots of free time, looks like ur gonna need it with this one! 🤣🤣

Ps.... You're right though

[Dan LCFC]

1 hour ago, don_danbury said:

😂 just seen Utd only have a +1 gd and sit in 6th place. Mad 

With Palace away as their only remaining fixture. It's really not beyond them to finish with a minus GD here.

[BenTheFox]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

With Palace away as their only remaining fixture. It's really not beyond them to finish with a minus GD here.

How are they as high as sixth though?? They are genuinely toss!

[Sampson]

27 minutes ago, J. James said:

Hey Sampson, hope you got lots of free time, looks like ur gonna need it with this one! 🤣🤣

Ps.... You're right though

Haha it’s fine. I’m just baffled by all these arguments. It’s like they’re watching another player from me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a clearly talented player in this country as De Bruyne and who has anywhere near his range of passing and shooting. Henry is the other one who comes close, although Salah is pushing too. The likes of Hoddle, Bergkamp and Gascoigne had their moments but were never anywhere near as consistent as De Bruyne has been over these past 6 or 7 seasons. George Best I only saw the tail end of his career when he was past his best. And I already said as much earlier in the season in another thread before De Bruyne started putting in this ridiculous 2nd half of the season too.

 

I mean Frank Lampard and Yaya Toure were very good players, don’t get me wrong, but I have a genuinely hard time putting in arguments they were better, De Bruyne was technically miles above them and created at a much higher level too. Especially when it’s bad faith arguments like Frank Lampard a player notorious for drifting in and out of games and for forgoing defensive work being better defensively and at throwing himself in front of the ball than de Bruyne who is a defensive beast for his position and who has 3 or 4 times his defensive numbers while playing in a side with way more possession and conceding way less.

 

Think if de Bruyne retired tomorrow he’d already be clearly the best midfielder we’ve seen in the PL. But he won’t be and we’ve still got several years left of him by which point people won’t even debate it anymore.

Edited 13 May 2022 by Sampson

[BKLFox]

19 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Can you please link some of these? Or were all these forums feeds and columns from years ago. Because all I hear from ManCity fans is them calling them their GOAT and that’s all they seem to say on their forum.

 

It’s silly to say KDB isn’t in their top 5 players in the last 15 years at this point. And he certainly will be remembered as such in the future and that has nothing to do with his position.

 

It’s nothing to do with position. KDB basically already is considered the GOAT by ManCity fans, despite having a good 5-6 years left there most likely. That’s not “oh we remember him better” he’s dragging them to a league title right now, he’s played over the past 3 or 4 seasons to a level no midfielder in Premier League history ever has. It’s not just his numbers, his range of passing is as good as we’ve ever seen in this country and he’s the complete midfielder, he’s brilliant defensively and such a physical presence too.  Fernandinho was a very very good player but he clearly isn’t on the same level as De Bruyne. 

 

 

Listen i'll call it quits, people live in the here & now i get that & therefore current players are their best players just like someone living through the 70's will say Colin Bell was the best ever Man City player.

I agree with you KDH is a phenomenal player & the best midfielder in the premier league today

[Corky]

3 hours ago, BenTheFox said:

How many statues are Man City going to have outside their ground in 5/6 years time???

More statues than fans Lol #emptyhad #bantz

[Sampson]

5 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Listen i'll call it quits, people live in the here & now i get that & therefore current players are their best players just like someone living through the 70's will say Colin Bell was the best ever Man City player.

I agree with you KDH is a phenomenal player & the best midfielder in the premier league today

Not really though. We’re talking about comparing him with players who left the club 3 or 4 years ago not 30 or 40 years ago who everyone remembers clearly. No one claims Barnes is better Leicester player than Mahrez or Justin is a better Leicester player than Fuchs just because “current players are their best players”.
 

It’s barely recent enough to be receny bias to say De Bruyne is a better ManCity player than Fernandinho or Yaya Toure. Anyone over the age of 13 or 14 has memories of those players playing for ManCity and it’s quite obvious De Bruyne has been a better player for ManCity than Toure or Fernandinho already.

Edited 13 May 2022 by Sampson

[J. James]

18 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Haha it’s fine. I’m just baffled by all these arguments. It’s like they’re watching another player from me. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a clearly talented player in this country as De Bruyne and who has anywhere near his range of passing and shooting. Henry is the other one who comes close, although Salah is pushing too. The likes of Hoddle, Bergkamp and Gascoigne had their moments but were never anywhere near as consistent as De Bruyne has been over these past 6 or 7 seasons. George Best I only saw the tail end of his career when he was past his best. And I already said as much earlier in the season in another thread before De Bruyne started putting in this ridiculous 2nd half of the season too.

 

I mean Frank Lampard and Yaya Toure were very good players, don’t get me wrong, but I have a genuinely hard time putting in arguments they were better, De Bruyne was technically miles above them and created at a much higher level too. Especially when it’s bad faith arguments like Frank Lampard a player notorious for drifting in and out of games and for forgoing defensive work being better defensively and at throwing himself in front of the ball than de Bruyne who is a defensive beast for his position and who has 3 or 4 times his defensive numbers while playing in a side with way more possession and conceding way less.

 

Think if de Bruyne retired tomorrow he’d already be clearly the best midfielder we’ve seen in the PL. But he won’t be and we’ve still got several years left of him by which point people won’t even debate it anymore.

I agree entirely, the biggest problem with any GOAT debate is that you need to have seen ALL the performances by ALL the candidates and that's disregarding all he other factors such as era, quality of team mates, quality of opposition and longevity

 

There is also the small matter of why we all watch the game -  entertainment!

 

KDB is probably the best I've seen mind and as you say he has years left at the top..

Good job Man city don't have a recognised striker too like Haa..... D'oh! 😱

[StanSP]

1 hour ago, BenTheFox said:

How are they as high as sixth though?? They are genuinely toss!

Ronaldo bailing them out. 

[NasPb]

1 hour ago, Sampson said:

Can you please link some of these? Or were all these forums feeds and columns from years ago. Because all I hear from ManCity fans is them calling them their GOAT and that’s all they seem to say on their forum.

 

It’s silly to say KDB isn’t in their top 5 players in the last 15 years at this point. And he certainly will be remembered as such in the future and that has nothing to do with his position.

 

It’s nothing to do with position. KDB basically already is considered the GOAT by ManCity fans, despite having a good 5-6 years left there most likely. That’s not “oh we remember him better” he’s dragging them to a league title right now, he’s played over the past 3 or 4 seasons to a level no midfielder in Premier League history ever has. It’s not just his numbers, his range of passing is as good as we’ve ever seen in this country and he’s the complete midfielder, he’s brilliant defensively and such a physical presence too.  Fernandinho was a very very good player but he clearly isn’t on the same level as De Bruyne. 
 

That’s 100% nostalgia bias saying the likes of Fernandinho, Kompany and Toure spent 10 years at the top. Kompany and Fernando notoriously took 2 or 3 seasons to settle in and Fernandinho especially was notoriously a bit of a scape goat in his early years.
 

Yaya Toure was a very good but notoriously erratic player but largely only had 1 season where he elevated himself and was consistently Man City’s stand out player.

De Bruyne has been their best player since they signed him in 2015. He’s already won Man City’s POTY award 3 times more than any other player you mentioned.

 

Honestly have no idea why you only noticed de Bruyne since 2019, when in 17/18 he was unreal and only lost PFA POTY to Salah’s record breaking season.

Yaya toure isn't the one on our staff lad no need to hate

[Dan LCFC]

42 minutes ago, BenTheFox said:

How are they as high as sixth though?? They are genuinely toss!

Genuinely find it quite hard to believe. Awful under Solskjaer and they've really been no better after him either but for a midseason slight upturn. That's enough for Europe. Crikey.

 

We can get back into Europe if we get our act together.

[Nalis]

Wonder if Man City want statue to nod to the past like Franny Lee in the same manner we want an acknowledgement to the pre KP days in some form here.

[BKLFox]

24 minutes ago, Sampson said:

Not really though. We’re talking about comparing him with players who left the club 3 or 4 years ago not 30 or 40 years ago who everyone remembers clearly. No one claims Barnes is better Leicester player than Mahrez or Justin is a better Leicester player than Fuchs just because “current players are their best players”.
 

It’s barely recent enough to be receny bias to say De Bruyne is a better ManCity player than Fernandinho or Yaya Toure. Anyone over the age of 13 or 14 has memories of those players playing for ManCity and it’s quite obvious De Bruyne has been a better player for ManCity than Toure or Fernandinho already.

But they are different players, those 2 are better players than KDB (just noticed i'd be putting KDH 2 much Kiernan recently) in what those 2 players do/did & he is better than them at creating & collectively they complimented the team take any of the 3 out they a different team those 2 allow players like KDB do what they do, so Top trumps what evers is usually done on fans favourites.
I keep saying to be able to say this player, regardless of position, is the best player to ever grace the Premier lge has to be judged over a longer length of time, KDB is amazing but there has been more skillful players, players that came with all the tricks & flicks, players that have scored more, etc how do you even go about trying to pick 'The Best'  these are just some that pop into my head & i wouldn't have a clue to order them in who excited me the most &deserving of the title & where does KDB fit as they could all put the ball on a sixpence
Di Canio, Juninho, Okocha, Gazza, Silva, Villa, Robben, Kinkladze, Zola, Asprilla, Ginola, Ronaldo, Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Hazard, Djorkaeff, Beckham, Keeping away from the fore mentioned English pair despite they have scored more goals than KDB & i'm sure from this forum that's all that matters at the end of the day.

[Sampson]

23 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

But they are different players, those 2 are better players than KDB (just noticed i'd be putting KDH 2 much Kiernan recently) in what those 2 players do/did & he is better than them at creating & collectively they complimented the team take any of the 3 out they a different team those 2 allow players like KDB do what they do, so Top trumps what evers is usually done on fans favourites.
I keep saying to be able to say this player, regardless of position, is the best player to ever grace the Premier lge has to be judged over a longer length of time, KDB is amazing but there has been more skillful players, players that came with all the tricks & flicks, players that have scored more, etc how do you even go about trying to pick 'The Best'  these are just some that pop into my head & i wouldn't have a clue to order them in who excited me the most &deserving of the title & where does KDB fit as they could all put the ball on a sixpence
Di Canio, Juninho, Okocha, Gazza, Silva, Villa, Robben, Kinkladze, Zola, Asprilla, Ginola, Ronaldo, Cantona, Henry, Bergkamp, Hazard, Djorkaeff, Beckham, Keeping away from the fore mentioned English pair despite they have scored more goals than KDB & i'm sure from this forum that's all that matters at the end of the day.

Ermm… mate you started this argument by quoting me saying De Bruyne was only the 5th best ManCity player of the past 10 or 15 years now. Now you’re saying “it’s only because people remember the current players as the best” and “how do you go about picking the best?”.

 

What longer period of time does he need? He’s already been their POTY 3 times more than any of those players. He’s played in the PL for 7 years now at the top of his game at a level the likes of Fernandinho and Toure clearly never reached and certainly not for that long.

 

What are you even talking about? Your argument is so confused it doesn’t even make sense. Unless you’re just trying to say “he has to play games for the sake of playing them”.

 

In that case why is the PL best ever players not just Gareth Barry and James Milner?

 

I don’t get what your list of names mean, you can quite clearly rank players. Juninho or Asprilla for example obviously weren’t as good footballers as Henry even if you enjoyed watching them.

Surely you can see that N’Golo Kante is a better PL player than Gareth Barry despite being different midfielders and having nowhere near his longevity?

Edited 13 May 2022 by Sampson

[Spudulike]

1 hour ago, Corky said:

More statues than fans Lol #emptyhad #bantz

One of the reasons I don't want statues all over the place down on Freeman's Wharf. They lose their meaning and relevance. 

[fox_up_north]

I think statues should be for the absolute best your club ever had. A manager who led you to multiple titles and promotions or a player who gave it 100% every game for 10 years.

 

Aguero absolutely is a player that falls into the category of deserving a statue. It's just a crap statue. 

[davieG]

I'd prefer a Walk of Fame or Stone Face Masks embedded into the external stadium wall that way you cover a lot more players who deserve to be recognised.

[An Sionnach]

1 hour ago, J. James said:

I agree entirely, the biggest problem with any GOAT debate is that you need to have seen ALL the performances by ALL the candidates and that's disregarding all he other factors such as era, quality of team mates, quality of opposition and longevity

 

There is also the small matter of why we all watch the game -  entertainment!

 

KDB is probably the best I've seen mind and as you say he has years left at the top..

Good job Man city don't have a recognised striker too like Haa..... D'oh! 😱

De Brunye is probably the world's most complete midfielder at the moment , however even he can't stop Belgium regularly falling flat on their faces. Is he better than David Silva, Ya Ya Touré or maybe Colin Bell , Man. City fans would argue for hours over that.

[Corky]

39 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

One of the reasons I don't want statues all over the place down on Freeman's Wharf. They lose their meaning and relevance. 

Yeah, I'd rather we named a stand after Vardy.

[J. James]

11 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

De Brunye is probably the world's most complete midfielder at the moment , however even he can't stop Belgium regularly falling flat on their faces. Is he better than David Silva, Ya Ya Touré or maybe Colin Bell , Man. City fans would argue for hours over that.

I once got offered the outside by a 70 odd year old man in a pub in Salford for saying Colin Bell wasn't all that! — l was about 19, l told the guy i didn't fancy life in jail for killing him!

[An Sionnach]

6 minutes ago, J. James said:

I once got offered the outside by a 70 odd year old man in a pub in Salford for saying Colin Bell wasn't all that! — l was about 19, l told the guy i didn't fancy life in jail for killing him!

Man.City fans get very upset if you denigrate Bell.  I have to admit though , and I did actually see him play , that he was a brilliant player and usually gave us a very hard time.