Premier League 2021/22 Thread

[Fox92]

16 minutes ago, fox_up_north said:

Get rid of this nonsense "letting play continue" for offsides. I literally cannot see any logical reason for play to continue if a player is caught offside. Wastes everyone's time. 

I understand when it's tight but some of the decisions are ridiculous where the attacker is about 2 mile offside.

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, filbertway said:

The time it takes to get the ball back from the crowd it's already 100% obvious what the right decision is, so absolutely no time wasted. It's infuriating seeing a hard earned corner given as a goalkick when you see the replay within seconds of the ball going out.

Please no ………the ref will soon be obsolete and once it’s being reffed in a studio, anything can happen with subjective calls …… they won’t stop at corners/ goal kicks …….

[filbertway]

1 minute ago, st albans fox said:

Please no ………the ref will soon be obsolete and once it’s being reffed in a studio, anything can happen with subjective calls …… they won’t stop at corners/ goal kicks …….

That's a fair concern. I just don't see why it's not used for literally the one thing that is clear for everyone to see. It winds me up no end

 

No lines needed, no opinions, about 2 seconds. "It hit the red player last, corner kick"

 

 

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, filbertway said:

My 2 ways of improving VAR would be thus:

 

1) The referee explains to VAR why he gave a decision, then all they do is confirm whether what he thought happened did happen. If it did then the decision stands, if not then it doesn't. They don't need to be looking at other stuff that happened in the moment. Too much is opinion based.

 

e.g. player goes through and goes down under a challenge. "I gave the pen because I think that Morgan handled the ball". VAR then goes "Nahh you daft idiot, it hit him smack in the face".

 

Or "I'm sure Albrighton used and excessive amount of force on Mane". "Nah, he's barely touched him, Mane has milked it"

 

 

2) Use it to give correct decisions on corners and goal kicks. It takes a second to check and confirm.

They apparently already do point 1 (KMI is key match incidents) 

 

 

 

[Guest ttfn]

2 hours ago, Footballwipe said:

The standard of refereeing is only going to get worse anyway tbh. This constant demonising of referees at the highest level drips down into the lower levels in terms of the abuse and behaviour. That in turn will just stop any up-and-coming, or anyone with any true quality anyway coming forward to become refs. You end up with the best you can get which clearly isn't great.

 

The standard might not be great now (and btw when have we ever come away from a season of football saying "wow, what a great year in this division for referees"?) but if you hound people so it becomes even more unattractive a job to go into. We espouse the mental health of footballers but when we do ever worry about the mental health of referees. It takes a strong character to be an elite referee, add that onto another thing required for an already hard job along with the required fitness levels, knowledge of the game and a desire to actually do it as a full-time job.

 

Many have to make split second decisions that sometimes you cannot even get right or agree upon a consensus after multiple replays. VAR has its own issues, inconsistencies but what good is VAR in 10-15 years time when all the decent ones have retied and driven all the prospects away?

 

Either that or build a good reputation and then take a nice fat wedge from another country like Clattenburg did.

 

We as fans get what we wish for, unfortunately. We seem to want perfection, and we're never going to get it because referees are human, rules are interpreted differently and VAR is also run by humans.

Yep, the referees might be crap but as long as the likes of Klopp are allowed to square up to referees and shout in their faces with impunity there will not be a proper conveyor belt of refs coming through the system.

 

My solution is simple:

1) Sliding scale bans for managers - Mourinho-esque conspiracy nonsense post-match is a 3 game touch line ban, anything which is directly aggressive to the referee is a 5 game ban.

2) Yellow cards for anybody arguing with the referee on the pitch, including the captain. The captain can speak to the referee to enquire about his decision and can question it if he disagrees. But any arguing with the referee is a yellow card.

3) Pay the referees properly. These guys are expected to keep pace with elite athletes. Make it something that attracts smart, super-fit men in their 20s and 30s rather than something where you’re desperately hanging on to refs in their 50s even though they are demonstrably not fit enough to do the job optimally because they’re the only ones capable of putting up with the abuse. Make it an aspirational profession. £1m a year salary to be one of the (20) PL refs. Make it something that becomes a viable career path for the kids that drop out of the professional game in academies as well as football-mad kids that were never any good. Make it competitive rather than a career path for people prepared to put up with the shit.

4) Keep VAR but use specialists. This is where you can send old refs once they hit 40-45, or even just smart people who properly understand the rules. Ask them to ref the game as they see it and if they disagree with a goal/red card/penalty, tell them to ask the referee to review the monitor. No “high bar”, just a difference of opinion. Broadcast the discussion between the ref and the VAR. The VAR is part of a cohort independent from the referees’ pool.

5) Independent refereeing panel which publicises match ratings at the end of each season. This is to keep referees accountable and to ensure quality. You could even have promotion/relegation between leagues on that basis.

 

This effectively creates an aspirational, multi-generational career path for referees, from refereeing on the pitch (say 25-40), being in the VAR room (40-50) and being on the panel (50-60). It makes the referees accountable, protects them from the constant undermining from managers and makes it a genuinely appealing career. Right now, much like politics, I suspect refereeing attracts narcissists rather than people genuinely passionate about their career and helping promote their line of work.

[filbertway]

3 hours ago, jammie82uk said:

They apparently already do point 1 (KMI is key match incidents) 

 

 

 

Interesting. This is also why I included severity of the act in one of the examples.

 

It's up to the ref to say I think player A put enough contact on player B to take them down. Then the person with access to replays and top level refereeing experience should be able to say Yes there was or No there wasn't.

 

It is not surprised that they're doing it in such a way that leaves a huge grey area. The VAR should have absolute last say on whether he thinks that the ref has blown up for is correct or incorrect.

[Phil Bowman]

5 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Anyone who approached a referee in an aggressive manner - instant yellow. Or even make it more simple - don't come within 5 yards.

Can’t disagree.

Maybe this would be a good thing to introduce sin bins for. Ten minutes off the pitch if you moan at the ref. And if they protest a free-kick, take it ten yards towards the penalty spot. If that takes it into the penalty area, it’s a penalty.

 

Rugby as a sport is rubbish compared to football (and I quite like rugby, but this is just a fact) but the way they handle dissent and their VAR equivalent is streets ahead.

[Phil Bowman]

5 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

The flip side is referees get clear rules and guidance and the people who run VAR are separate from those on the pitch and there is no interaction between them. That way they won't stick up for their mates.

Not sure I agree on your no interaction idea, although I completely understand where it comes from. I reckon they should talk to each other about the decision - and we should be able to hear that discussion.

 

5 hours ago, fox_up_north said:

Make them explain key decisions.

This 100%. Not in a ‘justify yourself or else’ way, just that it shouldn’t be impossible to find a way for refs to make clear at the time the reason for a decision.

[Phil Bowman]

1 hour ago, ttfn said:

Make it an aspirational profession. £1m a year salary to be one of the (20) PL refs.

I did like the (possibly apocryphal) story. I think it was Arsene Wenger when at Arsenal having a chat with a top ref, and asked him what the top refs got paid.

’About 70 thousand,’ replied the ref.

’Ah,’ said Wenger. ‘Not too bad then. Not too different to a few of my players.’

’No - I mean 70 thousand a year,’ answered the ref.

[CosbehFox]

Sorry to reopen an old wound here but I find the criticism of footballers and not being vaccinated in part hypocritical. 
 

 

 

Particularly an article like this. I didn’t hear the same arguments when everyone was quite happy last winter for Premier League to play with every player in the league un-vaccinated. Which to the point it clearly affected certain players such as Saint Maximin and their performances when they caught it. The players put themselves at a level of risk to carry on (there was comments from media and govt about ensuring the nations mood was maintained). 
 

Now where footballers are unavailable because of their vaccination status; that’s a separate argument and it’s an argument which should be strictly be between player/club. Let’s face it those players are going to struggle for a contract extension and/or a future transfer as it’s going to severely affect their ability to play in the UK or abroad where exceptions are not granted. 

[RowlattsFox]

The example set by managers, players as well but I think managers are much worse, in regards to their attitude towards referees is unbelievably bad and it contributes to the way grassroot refs are treated. 

The league I play in us mainly reffed by teenagers and the way are treated by grown men is astonishing.

 

You can disagree without acting like they do and you'd never get away with it in any other world. 

[Dahnsouff]

55 minutes ago, Phil Bowman said:

Can’t disagree.

Maybe this would be a good thing to introduce sin bins for. Ten minutes off the pitch if you moan at the ref. And if they protest a free-kick, take it ten yards towards the penalty spot. If that takes it into the penalty area, it’s a penalty.

 

Rugby as a sport is rubbish compared to football (and I quite like rugby, but this is just a fact) but the way they handle dissent and their VAR equivalent is streets ahead.

Tend to agree, but extend it to managers (or other staff) shouting at the officials. They can feck off and grow up, and I won’t hear the ‘it’s passion’ argument, it’s excuse making bollocks, they aren’t fans, they are in a job.

[Wymsey]

Happy birthday, Ben Chilwell..

[Super_horns]

They did try the 10 yard thing for a while but didn’t last long ..

[jammie82uk]

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Tend to agree, but extend it to managers (or other staff) shouting at the officials. They can feck off and grow up, and I won’t hear the ‘it’s passion’ argument, it’s excuse making bollocks, they aren’t fans, they are in a job.

Look at the other day with Klopp, he gets booked, he still carries on at the ref, he then talks to the ref on the way off the pitch at halftime, he also talks to the ref in the tunnel just before the second half starts, he then criticised the ref after the game and gets let off with no punishment, it shouldn’t be allowed 

[Corky]

1 hour ago, Wymsey said:

Happy birthday, Ben Chilwell..

[BKLFox]

2 hours ago, RowlattsFox said:

The example set by managers, players as well but I think managers are much worse, in regards to their attitude towards referees is unbelievably bad and it contributes to the way grassroot refs are treated. 

The league I play in us mainly reffed by teenagers and the way are treated by grown men is astonishing.

 

You can disagree without acting like they do and you'd never get away with it in any other world. 

Had it with my lad and the amount of times I’ve had to say, “do you realise your abusing a minor” it’s like they switch off to the fact they are talking to a kid whilst footballs on 

 

would just add the managers actions sometimes gives the go ahead to parents also to have a go

Edited 21 December 2021 by BKLFox

[Wymsey]

Benjamin Mendy is further charged..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

[foxes_rule1978]

16 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Benjamin Mendy is further charged..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

Blimey not looking good for him at all 

[ren]

17 minutes ago, Wymsey said:

Benjamin Mendy is further charged..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-59754899

Absolute cretin. Needs the key throwing away.

[UniFox21]

 

 

 

Dont agree with this, players have access to the best healthcare and have more care/attention than the vast majority in the world. 

 

[filbertway]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

 

 

 

Dont agree with this, players have access to the best healthcare and have more care/attention than the vast majority in the world. 

 

You have a squad, you don't have to play the same XI every week. If that happens it's the club not looking after your welfare, not the league. God I can't stand the whining.

[Fox92]

Why is it always the clubs with the biggest resources that moan.

 

Every club, Premier League and football league, deal with the same amount of games but luckily these top teams, that do seem to moan more, are the ones that have the chance to actually make changes (and good changes) to their first 11 in this time.

[Dahnsouff]

The media don’t ask these questions to players of non big-6 clubs, no point losing our shi*t over their predictable click-bait bias

[Bert]

Because they wanna win that’s all it’s about. Knowing they aren’t at 100% lessens that chance. But hey it’s the same for everybody.